Jeanneau and Beneteau

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Deanosc

Ok thats amazing! Would you say buying a used charter boat is precarious or something that is generally avoided?

No it’s not “ precarious “ they are often well maintained. They can range from very tired to quite well speced and looked after You simply need to know what you are looking at.

[Deanosc]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

If you are comparing Bennys etc with say small semi production boats you are doing an apples and oranges comparison

Rather the same as saying you see lots of Nissans going cheaper then BMW 5 series etc.

Yet the Nissan will quite happily do 200,000 miles, will last as long or longer then the beemer and get you there just as well

Beneteau group owns the biggest boat builder in the world.

It brands are ( in boats alone)


Beneteau
Jeanneau
Laggoon
Delphi
CNB
Four winns
Prestige
Glastron
Excess yachts
Scarb

They produce zillions of boats and many are in the charter fleets.

Bevneteau and Jeanneau are pitched to compete with Hanse , dufour ( out of business) , Bavaria etc.

They make a good boat for the money. Is it a bmw , no

Will they happily cross oceans , yes of course

Other then HR , most of the bmw brands have give bust anyway

Ok so this is basically the answer I was looking for haha. Thank you. That was a perfect analogy. I am not in the market for a BMW at this stage of my life haha maybe in another 20 years or so but yeah.

Again thank you so much for the helpful reply!

[Deanosc]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

No it’s not “ precarious “ they are often well maintained. They can range from very tired to quite well speced and looked after You simply need to know what you are looking at.

Ok thank you! I was not sure if it was a little more of a grey area.

[Fbfisher]

Not necessarily, but I’d not buy one without a very thorough survey - a recommendation that applies to all boats so I guess that’s not really a distinguishing factor.

Used charter boat fleets are way under priced compared to a boat that’s been owned for personal use. A number of factors go into that, but to me there are some key issues. A charter boat is in a circumstance where it is in a “turn and burn” setting.. The company is incentivized to keep the boat in the hands of Charter customers. The wear and tear is significant compared to a privately owned boat. That means when the boat is at the dock or the yard, it’s not earning money. Keeping them out in the water is the priority. Sometimes that may mean that their systems are not being adequately maintained, and that sometimes the boats are in the hands of relative novices. As a Charter boat you’d hope the company has a vital interest in keeping the boats in good shape and under good repair. I’m not sure how often that actually happens.

The other issue to consider is layout of the interior. Do you really want 4 small cabins with 4 heads? Do you want a 40+ foot boat designed to carry 3 or 4 couples for a week or two. Charter versions are often designed particularly for that function. They also tend to have shallow draft keels.

As was asked above, what do you want to do with the boat? Unless you have a need for lots of heads and private spaces, the interior of a charter boat will create some issues that you’ll want to consider.

A sailboat made by Beneteau, Jeanneau, etc will take you where you seem to want to go. Familiarity by boat yards and technicians, along with the availability of service and parts is also a plus.

Happy hunting, be sure to let us know what you decide, and feel free to send us the links to the boats you are considering. That’s the best way to get specific feedback to inform your decision.

[Deanosc]

Originally Posted by Fbfisher

Not necessarily, but I’d not buy one without a very thorough survey - a recommendation that applies to all boats so I guess that’s not really a distinguishing factor.

Used charter boat fleets are way under priced compared to a boat that’s been owned for personal use. A number of factors go into that, but to me there are some key issues. A charter boat is in a circumstance where it is in a “turn and burn” setting.. The company is incentivized to keep the boat in the hands of Charter customers. The wear and tear is significant compared to a privately owned boat. That means when the boat is at the dock or the yard, it’s not earning money. Keeping them out in the water is the priority. Sometimes that may mean that their systems are not being adequately maintained, and that sometimes the boats are in the hands of relative novices. As a Charter boat you’d hope the company has a vital interest in keeping the boats in good shape and under good repair. I’m not sure how often that actually happens.

The other issue to consider is layout of the interior. Do you really want 4 small cabins with 4 heads? Do you want a 40+ foot boat designed to carry 3 or 4 couples for a week or two. Charter versions are often designed particularly for that function. They also tend to have shallow draft keels.

As was asked above, what do you want to do with the boat? Unless you have a need for lots of heads and private spaces, the interior of a charter boat will create some issues that you’ll want to consider.

A sailboat made by Beneteau, Jeanneau, etc will take you where you seem to want to go. Familiarity by boat yards and technicians, along with the availability of service and parts is also a plus.

Happy hunting, be sure to let us know what you decide, and feel free to send us the links to the boats you are considering. That’s the best way to get specific feedback to inform your decision.

We are not looking for 4 small cabins at all haha and that is a good point, 2 would be perfect.

All of that is valuable information, thank you!! I really appreciate the offer for help on ads also! Hopefully we will be in the water in the next 6 to 8 months.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Fbfisher

Not necessarily, but I’d not buy one without a very thorough survey - a recommendation that applies to all boats so I guess that’s not really a distinguishing factor.



Used charter boat fleets are way under priced compared to a boat that’s been owned for personal use. A number of factors go into that, but to me there are some key issues. A charter boat is in a circumstance where it is in a “turn and burn” setting.. The company is incentivized to keep the boat in the hands of Charter customers. The wear and tear is significant compared to a privately owned boat. That means when the boat is at the dock or the yard, it’s not earning money. Keeping them out in the water is the priority. Sometimes that may mean that their systems are not being adequately maintained, and that sometimes the boats are in the hands of relative novices. As a Charter boat you’d hope the company has a vital interest in keeping the boats in good shape and under good repair. I’m not sure how often that actually happens.



.... .

I do not agree with “ way under priced “

I spent considerable time in Greece recently looking at 36-38 footers from the usual big 4 manufacturers. Both private and charter

I would not say there was a big difference in price between well maintained charter and private versions maybe 5 -10% . Yes there was a few very tired ones I looked at with poor specs ( no solar no bimini. Tired interior etc) and these were considerably cheaper. But like for like for a given age not a huge difference at all.

[Fbfisher]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

I do not agree with “ way under priced “

I spent considerable time in Greece recently looking at 36-38 footers from the usual big 4 manufacturers. Both private and charter

I would not say there was a big difference in price between well maintained charter and private versions maybe 5 -10% . Yes there was a few very tired ones I looked at with poor specs ( no solar no bimini. Tired interior etc) and these were considerably cheaper. But like for like for a given age not a huge difference at all.

Your experience actually digging deep is the key. Simply looking online and comparing prices could lead one to think that the price delta is wide. I’ve been shocked at the price delta between charter boats that have been in charter service in the Caribbean and those for sale by private owners in California. $20K-50K+ cheaper if I bought a Caribbean charter boat of the same model and vintage. Model and asking price is just the beginning. Understanding that those that are “way less expensive” are so for a reason. The challenge is to figure out the reason. Sometimes hard to tell via online adds unless you have a robust checklist of “must haves” and don’t rely on the photos to tell you much of anything.

[shimari]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

...

Bevneteau and Jeanneau are pitched to compete with Hanse , dufour ( out of business) , Bavaria etc.

...

Dufour is out of business? Do you have any pointers to this?

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by shimari

Dufour is out of business? Do you have any pointers to this?

They look very much alive here..
https://www.dufour-yachts.com/en/boat-shows/

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by boatman61

They look very much alive here..

https://www.dufour-yachts.com/en/boat-shows/

Sorry , my bad , thinking of someone else

[MicHughV]

Well, I guess I should chime in here as I'm well acquainted with the Bennie 423.

As others have noted, these are French designs, but are Ford built. In other words, they are mass produced. Like any manufacturer, the object is to make a product at the least possible price to ensure a good profit line. For instance, the Bennie has a steel keel, not that there is anything wrong with that.

Note I said " least" not "cheaply". The price point comes when you take a close look at how these boats are built. They are mostly" pre-fabbed". Think Ford assembly lines. By and large, they are good sailing boats. You can't compare a mass produced boat like a Beneteau with a Hallberg-Rassy....that would be like comparing a Ford with a Porsche, but they will both cross oceans without any problem .

Fiberglass boats last forever. There are any number of " used" boats for sale that are priced lower than the Bennie's, etc.

You can't let " price point" be your only standard when boat shopping. A well maintained Bennie would be a better boat that a HR that has been trashed, etc.

[Fbfisher]

FYI, these days, even Porsches are built on an assembly line. Lowering production costs by standardization does not necessarily produce a lower quality product. Fit and finish are important, as are the components, standing and running rigging. Off brand or undersized components would also lead to lower cost, but you don’t see much of that.

[goboatingnow]

As a person that has been to the Hanse , beneteau and HR factories , it’s important to realise that the boat and car manufacturing comparison isn’t apt.

The closet might be comparing beneteau to Ford and HR to Morgan cars.

BMW Porsche etc are mass manufacturers compared to boats. Even high end cars have manufacturing structures on a scale impractical for boats.

The difference between beneteau and HR is largely down to “ labour “ HR builds a tiny number of boats , about 6 side by side in the finishing plant. They deploy craftsman to fabricate most parts and build the boat up piece by piece

You are essentially paying for all the Nordic labour costs baked into a HR boat. It’s why many other “boutique “ boat builders have failed ( after many many years of existence ) primarily because mass produced boats get better and better and produce more boat for the money. ( access to capital and expensive machinery ) Buyers gravitate away from the boutique brands and then they fail

What also works against them , is the element of fashion , beneteau can invest in the technologies to do Things like recessed hatches moulded in windows etc. These technologies are too expensive to implement in lower volume builds. Hence “ boutique “ brands tend to locked into designs that still use older manual orientated techniques and systems. This over time shrinks their market.

New Small volume high end boats are now very thin on the ground as costs and returns mean only larger sizes make sense for these builders to focus on

What’s surprising is that the mass end of the market has survived on the European Continent at all , even as the boutique brands have failed one by one, the wipeout being essentially total in the U.K. ( which surprisingly never developed a large scale yachting builder )

At the end of the day , we’re lucky to have the mass builders , as they allow, via their second hand market , loads of people to acquire decent yachts.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Fbfisher

FYI, these days, even Porsches are built on an assembly line. Lowering production costs by standardization does not necessarily produce a lower quality product. Fit and finish are important, as are the components, standing and running rigging. Off brand or undersized components would also lead to lower cost, but you don’t see much of that.

You will notice that mass manufacturers of yachts have stayed with the major fitments brands , so on HR you’ll see Lewmar , spinlock, seldon,harken , etc. And equally youll see all these brands on benneys , bavs etc , same with engines etc.

This is because beneteau at a group level can buy this stuff at far less cost then HR ,they can also influence such manufacturers to build product ranges that suit their price points and assembly processes not to mention changing their products to suit the latest “fashion “. Boutique boats have to largely resort to accepting what they can get.

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Sorry , my bad , thinking of someone else

Gibsea or Feeling perhaps ?