Catalina/Beneteau/Hunter/Jeanneau good enough for coastal cruising?

[kenbo]

Originally Posted by gregorybross

What issues did the Catalina 400 have? Has anyone on that boat responded to this or do we just take your word for it?

I owned a C400 and felt that it was a good value for it's purpose. Some aspects of the design showed a keener eye to production costs than building an offshore boat.

If you had the winged shoal draft keel, the spade rudder was as deep as the keel and unprotected,

The boat could pound going to weather due it's fairly flat bottom forward of the keel.

Both water tanks were woefully installed and could break loose from their mounting in rough seas and definitely if knocked down.

The aft cover on the engine space is large heavy and secured by only two rubber straps.

The batteries (2 4D's) were simply placed in the battery compartment under the floor and completely unsecured.

The wet exhaust system was a rube goldberg nightmare. Ruined many of the early installed Westerbeke engines and out of the factory has back pressure readings in excess of what the newer Yanmar installation specs for their engines. Catalina (but Island Packet does this as well on some models) installed a $150 exhaust elbow from a 3 cylinder on a 4 cylinder engine that called for a $800 exhaust elbow. Yanmar specs a 3" wet exhaust and Catalina installed a 2" wet exhaust to the waterlift and then 2.5" to the outlet. Truely a testament to the build quality of the Yanmars that they survive this BS but excessive back pressure will shorten any diesel's life.

On the positive side, the rigging, both standing and running were done well and adequately sized.

The glass work was very well executed and finished.

Both the 12VDC and 120VAC were well designed and executed.

Most systems were easy to access and maintain.

Overall good quality hardware and fitting.

[double u]

BTW: heavy versus light (again: anecdotal evidence):
1998, NZ to New Caledonia: 2 days of very heavy going, closehauled steady 35kn, higher gusts, last day normal tradewinds though
our boat 37', 6t (empty) alloy keelboat, no rollerfurler, very tough but comparatively light boat ( Pouvreau 11.30, for the savants)
Arrived in NCal same time as 50' W Garden ketch, all rollersails:
we were “fresh“ & no more fatigued than after any other passage, the couple on the heavy ketch was knackered, absolutely finished

[kenbo]

Originally Posted by double u

BTW: heavy versus light (again: anecdotal evidence):
1998, NZ to New Caledonia: 2 days of very heavy going, closehauled steady 35kn, higher gusts, last day normal tradewinds though
our boat 37', 6t (empty) alloy keelboat, no rollerfurler, very tough but comparatively light boat ( Pouvreau 11.30, for the savants)
Arrived in NCal same time as 50' W Garden ketch, all rollersails:
we were “fresh“ & no more fatigued than after any other passage, the couple on the heavy ketch was knackered, absolutely finished

It may be anecdotal but I believe you're spot on. Hull shape and how the boat is driven make up much of what defines a comfortable ride not necessarily displacement alone.

[ssteakley]

"What issues did the Catalina 400 have? Has anyone on that boat responded to this or do we just take your word for it?"

The Catalina 400 did not have any issues, but the crew reported a difficult and uncomfortable crossing. That particular Catalina 400 had a successful trip after the crossing to the Bahamas and then back to Louisiana, later it participated in a open ocean race from St. Ptersburg Florida to Cozumel and placed second in class.

Almost any boat can coastal cruise, some are more comfortable than others due to design. Some are safer than others due to design.

Steve Steakley

[GreenWave]

What year was your Catalina 470? I am looking for one.

[GreenWave]

Originally Posted by ssteakley

Read up on “Sailboat Design Ratios “ They can add some objective sauce on the consideration. One example: We crossed from Corpus Christi TX to Pensacola. Fl on a heavy displacement Passport 42 along with a buddy boat Catalina 400, much lighter vessel. 30 kt winds. 12’ seas with the occassionl 16-20 footer wave. The Passport punched through the waves and the Catalina rode on top. We had a relatively smooth experience compared to the crew of the Catalina. With the huge Catalina cockpit they were struggling to brace themselves constantly for the roller coaster ride. We could easily drink our tea and consume the woderf bowls of food prepared down below. Each boat made the crossing in tact but the heavy one was far more comfortable.

Originally Posted by Zzmeyer

I've owned a Beneteau, a Jeanneau and two Catalinas. I've sailed all three offshore. All great boats. If you look at boats that are doing major offshore rallies Beneteau has the most. None come from the factory offshore equipped. None come with a competent skipper and crew.

@zzmeyer. Which type and year Catalinas did you sail?

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by GreenWave

What year was your Catalina 470? I am looking for one.

Who's this question addressed to? theres 3 of us in the forum that I know of that have C470's.

[GreenWave]

Originally Posted by daletournier

Who's this question addressed to? theres 3 of us in the forum that I know of that have C470's.

Yeah, I didn’t do a good job on that post. How about all of you? :-)

[CCR2580]

I have a 2001 Catalina 400 for sale check my post.

[Sofa King Fishy]

Originally Posted by kenbo

I owned a C400 and felt that it was a good value for it's purpose. Some aspects of the design showed a keener eye to production costs than building an offshore boat.

If you had the winged shoal draft keel, the spade rudder was as deep as the keel and unprotected,

The boat could pound going to weather due it's fairly flat bottom forward of the keel.

Both water tanks were woefully installed and could break loose from their mounting in rough seas and definitely if knocked down.

The aft cover on the engine space is large heavy and secured by only two rubber straps.

The batteries (2 4D's) were simply placed in the battery compartment under the floor and completely unsecured.

The wet exhaust system was a rube goldberg nightmare. Ruined many of the early installed Westerbeke engines and out of the factory has back pressure readings in excess of what the newer Yanmar installation specs for their engines. Catalina (but Island Packet does this as well on some models) installed a $150 exhaust elbow from a 3 cylinder on a 4 cylinder engine that called for a $800 exhaust elbow. Yanmar specs a 3" wet exhaust and Catalina installed a 2" wet exhaust to the waterlift and then 2.5" to the outlet. Truely a testament to the build quality of the Yanmars that they survive this BS but excessive back pressure will shorten any diesel's life.

On the positive side, the rigging, both standing and running were done well and adequately sized.

The glass work was very well executed and finished.

Both the 12VDC and 120VAC were well designed and executed.

Most systems were easy to access and maintain.

Overall good quality hardware and fitting.

I know it’s an old post, but this is completely Jive A** wrong. Nothing unusually complicated about any Catalina system, wet exhaust or otherwise. Sorry you had to buy an expensive part. Just the Heat Exchange manifold cover on my C42 was $1200. That’s a Yanmar issue, not a Catalina issue.

[kenbo]

Originally Posted by Sofa King Fishy

I know it’s an old post, but this is completely Jive A** wrong. Nothing unusually complicated about any Catalina system, wet exhaust or otherwise. Sorry you had to buy an expensive part. Just the Heat Exchange manifold cover on my C42 was $1200. That’s a Yanmar issue, not a Catalina issue.

I realize many Catalina owners have drank the kool-aid but everything that I posted above is dead accurate. I suggest you take my post and look at a C400 and then come back and post where I was Jive A** wrong. My quoting of cost differentials was to show how Catalina hides some of their cost savings not to complain about the cost of Yanmar parts.

[S/V Illusion]

Originally Posted by kenbo

I realize many Catalina owners have drank the kool-aid but everything that I posted above is dead accurate. I suggest you take my post and look at a C400 and then come back and post where I was Jive A** wrong. My quoting of cost differentials was to show how Catalina hides some of their cost savings not to complain about the cost of Yanmar parts.

It's always easy to tell when someone's pride of ownership ego gets bruised. That's why all of these 'which is better' discussions are so predictable and often filled with half-truths and bias.


They are all essentially equivalent and built competitively to compete against each other.

[kenbo]

Originally Posted by S/V Illusion

It's always easy to tell when someone's pride of ownership ego gets bruised. That's why all of these 'which is better' discussions are so predictable and often filled with half-truths and bias.


They are all essentially equivalent and built competitively to compete against each other.

Actually, I think the Catalinas are the best built of the 4 builders in question. I was simply providing the major warts of the C400 if you plan on taking her offshore. All correctable but they exist, with exception of the wing keel and rudder being at the same depth. But you could buy a fin keel and avoid the issue.

[Parkerrodney59]

I'm surprised this topic still gets debated. The four majors have been used for costal cruising for decades. I've owned 2 Hunters 23 and 28, sailed those in the coastal North Atlantic, a Catalina 42 also in the costal North Atlantic and now I own a Jeanneau 50 which I plan to take off-shore. I have never owned a Beneteau, but they too have a solid reputation for sailing off-shore. The larger question is whether some boats are better suited by design and build to handle some costal and offshore abuse, and the answer to that question is clearly yes. You will know them by hull, design, customization, construction, rig configuration, keel, mast stepping, chain plate, redundancy, etc., and of course price. Bottom line is that if you don't plan to do serious offshore sailing, get a boat with the features and construction you value.

[Rasselas36]

Excellent advice.