Catalina Morgan 440

[Thames 4 Blood]

Does anyone have a view on the Catalina Morgan 440 as a bluewater capable liveaboard?
They look quite well built? But they seem cheap compared to similar styled boats... Any thoughts? I can't find a lot of info on them.

[sailorboy1]

they are capable if you are

[Thames 4 Blood]

That is no help at all and sums up the reason I avoid this forum.

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by Thames 4 Blood

That is no help at all and sums up the reason I avoid this forum.

OK, they aren't then

let me know what you want to read

[hobopacket]

Yes they are well built. If kept up with in good shape with the proper equipment make a great bluewater cruiser.

What sailor boy is saying, the boat is only as good as the crew. Hell a Catalina 27 has made it all the way around.

[GordMay]

“... the Catalina Morgan was voted the Best Production Cruiser (2005) from 40 to 45 Feet because it's an interesting and appropriate choice for sailors looking for a roomy, comfortable, and affordable cruising boat. And especially for the more mature crowd, whose members are increasingly challenged by the physical demands of sailing, the 440 offers a host of features specifically designed to keep them sailing longer...”
➥ Catalina Morgan 440 Sailboat Review | Cruising World

“... The 440's hull shape is meant for blue water, it is not a weekend warrior masquerading as an offshore boat. Catalina claims the 440 is just as happy on a lazy day sail as on a passage but I don't buy it, this is a cruising boat...”
➥ Catalina Morgan 440

[Thames 4 Blood]

Thanks. And for the record sailor boy, re read your post and you tell me what use it is beyond massaging your own ego and acting the salty expert? We could say almost any boat would fulfil "capable if you are". Why bother with that drivel?

[Thames 4 Blood]

I'm sorry. That was crossing the line into rudeness. Please ignore.

[jefndeb]

I crewed on one in the 2015 ARC to Tortola BVI, did great....

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by Thames 4 Blood

I'm sorry. That was crossing the line into rudeness. Please ignore.

Way too late, and no not every boat is capable even if the crew is! I guess what you really wanted was for someone to do the research for you, and it worked some as GordMay did a little. I gave you a straight to the point no BS answer.

[Thames 4 Blood]

I had hoped for someone with first hand experience to comment on the boat. That is research. I regret being rude but my underlying point is no less valid for my poor representation of it.

[GYRODUDE]

I am also intrigued by this yacht and have been in correspondence with owners. I am pasting the replies as I received them. Good luck with your research further on and please share any progress as we all use this forum to learn.

·General build quality


The build quality, we have found, is better than other models. We've owned a 250 and 310 and they were good, but not as better built as the 440. She was built on a Morgan hull and they were known for very good builds.

​·Sea keeping ability

She's a very good offshore boat. We've logged 9000 nm in the past 9 years. She was initially on a north Texas lake as we prepped her to go offshore. Then we move her to FL via truck and went up and the Keys, over to the Bahamas, 8 days to BVI, and then up and down from Puerto Rico to Grenada twice.

​​·Pointing and sailing ability i.e. % of apparent wind speed.

She's not a great pointer. The reason is the jib sheet tracks are on the toe rail, so you can't sheet the jib in tight. We fly a 135 so even close hauled, we're lucky to point 60 degrees off the wind.

​ ·Motor speed (most economical)

The 75 hp Yanmar is a great addition. It's essentially the 54 hp model with a turbo. At 1800 rpm we cruise around 5.5 -5.7 knots and burn 1 gph. Bumping up to 2200 rpm, we see 6-6.2 knots and burn 1.5 gph. 3000 rpm and fuel usages jumps to 3 gph.

​·How does she hove to.

Easily, but you will get some wave slap on the flat stern as you drift back.

​·How does she handle big waves

Very well. Our passage from Eleuthera to the BVI was 8 days and almost 900 nm. The last 4 days we got caught in the Christmas Winds and saw 30 knots and 15' seas. We had the equivalent of a triple reef in our roller boom and just about 4' of jib deployed. We were moving at 7 knots SOG very comfortably close hauled.

​- i.e. surfing, does she tend to broach ?

She's not a great performer down wind. Most sloops aren't and the 440, with the wing keel and skeg rudder can slide back and forth. It's not our best point of sail as the autopilot sometimes fights to keep up.

​·General motion under way.

Very predictable and sure.

​·Heavy weather capability

Like I mentioned previously, very solid. We also added a full enclosure for our cockpit, so we stay dry underway and in rain.

​·Airflow / ventilation at anchor.

Very good for the forward cabin and salon. The aft cabin does get decent air, but only if you open all hatches to allow cross ventilation. We added 10 Caframo Bora fans throughout the boat, two in the aft cabin, to help move air.

​·Any osmosis issues.

None so far. Just had her hauled last month for a bottom job and no blisters.

​·Any general shortcomings from your perspective or inherent to the design

She's a production boat. The early models had a starboard list due to battery placement that was corrected in later models, like ours.

​- factory build quality?

Mixed issues on that one. We had problems on day one at delivery, ours was built for us. It took the better part of three years to work them all out. We still have some issue to this day and neither Catalina, nor the vendors for the products they installed at the factory, stepped up to correct them.

​-Galley size with respect to cooking especially under way.

Very good. But we never cook while underway. We prep meals before a passage so there is nothing to cook, only heat back up. It's a safety thing.

​·Fridge and freezer sizing. (adequate for an ocean crossing).

The fridge is ok, the freezer not so much. The Isotherm freezer that Catalina installed is not a freezer. It's a fridge/freezer combo unit. While it will freeze, it was not designed for deep freezing, so stuff thaws when you least expect it. There is a freezer only unit that will fit there, but Catalina chose to save $400 by going with a cheaper model. Most 440 cruisers I know carry an Engel 12 v freezer cooler.

​·The actual size of the “store room” for real cruising needs .

Love it. More than enough room. We also use the "garage" in the steerage area for deep storage. I added plastic storage crates back there for parts and such that I rarely need.

​·The fried / freezer insulation – is this adequate as per the original fit.

It's ok. But you are relying on the units own insulation. The fridge and freezer are situated above the bilge floor - where the genset and engine are. Heats rises of course. We added additional 12v muffin fans under the sink and behind the drawer stack to vent our the hot air.

​·Galley storage (Enough for a Atlantic crossing)

Plenty. We stocked the boat for 6 months in the Bahamas and found places to store everything. Beer is $50 per case there and we had 30 cases and 20 box wines stored throughout the boat. None was in sight.

​·Were you happy with the tank age (Fuel and water)

Fuel and water are sufficient,depending on where you are going. We added a 14 gph sea recovery water-maker. For our trip down to the BVI, we carried an extra 30 gallons of diesel. Just in case.

​·The accessibility of service items / engine​/ generator​ / bilge pumps etc.

Very good. The later models added more access areas to work on the critical areas. I've found that the genset can be tough to work on. My average build allows me squeeze in there.

​·Cockpit security at sea.

Very secure.

​·General livability (especially from your wife’s perspective)

She loves the boat.

​·Knowing what you know now would again do the same purchase.

Probably not. And I say that because we purchased her new. Had we purchased a well equipped pre owned, we would have gotten more systems and not had a boat note. But the 440 is a great boat to own.

​·Did you buy another yacht after you sold your Cm440

Still have her. We live aboard full time.

​·Is the ventilation enough for the back cabin.

She my previous ventilation comments.

​·Which cabin do you use when under way ?

Aft cabin. Less motion and closer to the cockpit for communication

- Sail handling in general

Fantastic with the roller boom. All controls come into the cockpit.

·Ease of reefing her.

With a roller boom. Effortless.

​·Could she be single handed.

You bet. Docking may require a hand, but you can still grab a mooring ball and even anchor.

​
Any general items you want to add

More solar. Never enough...

[PhiSig1071]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

Way too late, and no not every boat is capable even if the crew is! I guess what you really wanted was for someone to do the research for you, and it worked some as GordMay did a little. I gave you a straight to the point no BS answer.

"They're capable" is a straight forward no BS answer.

"If you are" is a condescending high school total BS passive aggressive answer.

There is no need for that, and you should apologize. (But you wont). Even if you didn't intend to be rude and offensive you came across that way.

[Jim Cate]

T4Blood, I read through Gyrodude's post, and I'm kinda underwhelmed by some of the comments relative to its being a good bluewater (or any other) boat; I must admit to being a bit surprised by the following:

Only being able to point at 60 degrees when close hauled.. Does not say whether this is true or apparent, but either way IMO this is really poor performance, and would not be acceptable to me.

Secondly, burning 1.5 gph at 6 knots is pretty poor economy, especially when windward sailing performance is so poor. Kinda sounds like a poor match between engine and prop... maybe.

His comments about the galley are a bit inconclusive, but one interpretation is that they worry about safety in cooking at sea, and avoid doing so. Again, not a good outlook for a passage making vessel. Perhaps the comments reflect inexperience rather than a design fault... hard for me to tell.

Just a few issues, but ones that matter to me, and perhaps to you!

Jim

[Stu Jackson]

Almost every Catalina has an owners association and website. In addition to Gord's fine post, with a simple internet Google search on Catalina440.org, I found this:

http://www.catalina440.org/_forum/

Point being, you could ask here, or do your own homework and research. I'm very sorry if this seems too simple, but it often is. "Steady Hand", a frequent contributor here, is much better at explaining why those who ask should do some research first. These days, even the Podunck 22.6 has their own website.

Good luck. I've been on three 440s and they are fine boats, but like any other boat, "for the intended use."