First Boat - Figuring it Out Yourself?

[veloccity]

Looking for a sanity check!

Pulled the trigger on my first boat after months of going back and forth on what I wanted: the performance numbers, the sailability, the keel length, etc... All of that is well and good, but eventually I just wanted to sail a damn boat and find out if this is for me. I ended up with a Venture 24, basically a Venture 224 without the pop-top. These boats get panned fairly hard, but its what I wanted and I am happy with it... Hell I am ecstatic with it!

BUT (and there is always a but) the older gentleman I bought it off of hasn't sailed in 20+ years. He says the boat has been in a garage along with rigging for 20 years, while the sails, cushions, etc... were stored in a heated shop. The cables have no frayed cables and all but one of the turnbuckles worked as expected. I assume 20+ year old rigging is not a great thing, but should get me out on the water, right? The bigger issue is that while he could remember more or less how to get the mast up, he admitted to not really remembering how to rig it... Obviously I don't know either.

So point of my post: Am I completely out of my mind here? I am learning how to do this more or less by myself, and I am very happy about that. Using books and by walking the docks at the marina I am slowly learning how to rig the boat. I am not in a rush either. First time I go out will be in a small lake, moving up to the south Puget Sound as I gain experience. I also have a working outboard. My family seems to think this is ridiculous I know the 'correct' process would be to take lessons, volunteer to crew a race boat, find someone with the same/similar boat and get advise on how to rig, etc.

Truth of the matter is I like figuring things out on my own and this is just a hobby, so I want to do it my way... Unless this really is crazy? Thoughts?

[JPA Cate]

I think you can follow through with your plan. You will need enough self confidence thereafter to risk sailing the boat, so the real question is do you understand the physics involved to that extent? If the weather's nice, and the water's warm, and the mast and boom don't hit you, you go for a swim if something lets go. Your family just don't want you to get hurt.

If the boat has been in the garage for 20 yrs, the real question is how much was the rig used before that. Since you probably can't find that out, I think I'd spring for new wire, and get the rigger to rig the boat the first time, and video him or her when they do it. Ask questions as needed. And go sailing.

Ann

[mglonnro]

I did it pretty much the same over twenty years ago with a similarly sized boat.

I did have a few experienced friends that helped me out with a couple of things I wasn't really sure about myself. One was rigging the boat for the first time. The other, how to sail/gybe the spinnaker (if I remember it correctly). I ended up figuring everything out mostly myself, though.

Just take it easy and prioritize safety. Over here, most people use life jackets 100% of the time out sailing. I think that's a great idea since it's much easier to stay afloat like that

Lastly, I think it's bound to be a bit "not sane" to jump into this sailing stuff. Of course it's somewhat crazy and ridiculous, so you pass with flying colors!

[Orion Jim]

Most of us who didn’t have the luxury of a childhood immersed in sailing through family yacht club, or informal sailing club associations, had to learn on our own. I did just what you are doing now but at an earlier age. I started my learning experience in the public library and after that it was trial and error since I knew no one who sailed.
If you search the internet you will find lots of information specific to your boat since it was a popular model with hundreds produced. Good luck!

[thomm225]

I pulled the trigger on my first boat at age 17.

It was a 16' Chincoteague Scow made of plywood with 40 HP Johnson Outboard. The bottom would flex on every wave. Boat, Motor, and trailer $300.

5 more power boats followed.

My knowledge of boats was that I had driven one for a few miles at idle as a 6 or 7 year old and been fishing a few times with friends on their parents boats both bayside and seaside (ocean side)

In my mid 30's I switched to sailboats and racing. Bought a used Hobie 16. ($1700) 3 more beach cats followed. Two of those were bought new. Both Nacras. All for racing

Then I bought the Bristol 27 I have now for $2,000.

[TrentePieds]

Not crazy at all. In fact, probably a far better way to learn to be a sailor than is just buying a "ready to go" boat, getting in and charging off as if you were blowing a RAM350 down Route 66 :-)!

The boat is small. The scantlings are light. The stick is only a couplatwenty feet long, and no heavier than you can pick it up with one hand. There are only about six stays and shrouds. so just measure them and it will become obvious where they go. Once the stick is up, the rest of the rigging will also become obvious. And if it isn't, then just come back with specific questions.

There is a technique to raising the mast, but all it requires is some long bits of string and a knowledge of basic trigonometry, a few simple toolssome sticks and a "handy Billy" — a block and tackle.

Have fun :-)

TrentePieds

[sail sfbay]

Originally Posted by veloccity

..........I assume 20+ year old rigging is not a great thing, but should get me out on the water, right? ............Truth of the matter is I like figuring things out on my own and this is just a hobby, so I want to do it my way... Unless this really is crazy?

I would not have any concerns about 20+ year old rigging that has not been used. Your plan to lean and figure the ins and outs of the boat ON your own is NOT crazy......that is exactly what I did.

[Whosails]

Enjoy your boat. With my first offshore boat I spent a year with it and touched everything! It had blisters which needed drying before I launched it again. Hands on everything while drying. I felt comfortable with it before sailing over 14,000 miles with it. I now own a different boat which is also an offshore capable boat. Haven’t spent much time with it and am feeling insecure about taking it long distance.

[joelhemington]

Originally Posted by veloccity

Looking for a sanity check!

Pulled the trigger on my first boat after months of going back and forth on what I wanted: the performance numbers, the sailability, the keel length, etc... All of that is well and good, but eventually I just wanted to sail a damn boat and find out if this is for me. I ended up with a Venture 24, basically a Venture 224 without the pop-top. These boats get panned fairly hard, but its what I wanted and I am happy with it... Hell I am ecstatic with it!

BUT (and there is always a but) the older gentleman I bought it off of hasn't sailed in 20+ years. He says the boat has been in a garage along with rigging for 20 years, while the sails, cushions, etc... were stored in a heated shop. The cables have no frayed cables and all but one of the turnbuckles worked as expected. I assume 20+ year old rigging is not a great thing, but should get me out on the water, right? The bigger issue is that while he could remember more or less how to get the mast up, he admitted to not really remembering how to rig it... Obviously I don't know either.

So point of my post: Am I completely out of my mind here? I am learning how to do this more or less by myself, and I am very happy about that. Using books and by walking the docks at the marina I am slowly learning how to rig the boat. I am not in a rush either. First time I go out will be in a small lake, moving up to the south Puget Sound as I gain experience. I also have a working outboard. My family seems to think this is ridiculous I know the 'correct' process would be to take lessons, volunteer to crew a race boat, find someone with the same/similar boat and get advise on how to rig, etc.

Truth of the matter is I like figuring things out on my own and this is just a hobby, so I want to do it my way... Unless this really is crazy? Thoughts?

If the boat was stored in a garage, I'll assume it comes with a trailer. Set the mast up in your yard the first time and figure out the rigging - it shouldn't be that hard as there probably not more than five stays and they fit where they fit. Given the age, you'll have swage fittings at the ends (inspect these carefully as that is where most rigs fail due to corrosion). Also inspect the pins that hold the swage fittings to the turnbuckles - they should not be cracked. The turnbuckles are necessary to tune the rig once you have it installed - you don't want bends in the mast. If the rigging appears to be totally shot. then it might be a good time to explore Dyneema which is steadily becoming more popular for rigging as you can do it yourself as opposed to paying a shop to do it - you can do it yourself with mechanical fittings but for swage you'd need a very expensive machine. There are many tutorials on You Tube that discuss rigging with Dyneema. Next, point the boat into the wind and raise the sails, one at a time, to ensure that they will in fact work and the halyards aren't shot. This is also a good time to check your winches for functionality - never hurts to do some basic maintenance on winches. I doubt yours will be electric or self tailing ( the sheet lines wrap clockwise). Assuming there are no holes in the hull and the rudder works, you should be good to go for a start. There will of course be other things as you get more advanced like ground tackle, a VHF radio, safety gear and navigation lights. but for day sailing on a lake it shouldn't be that complex with a 22' boat. I do think I'd take a buddy along on your first launch (just so the boat doesn't float away before you can get aboard )

[veloccity]

Appreciate all of the responses, and I will be honest I am glad to hear from so many who sort of did it the same way. I will plan on replacing at least the standing rigging this winter, but would like to get a few trips out on the water first to see how it sails.

I'm not to worried about getting wet, looking like a fool, etc... More concerned with causing permanent damage to the boat, trailer, somebody else's boat, etc... One challenging thing about the local lakes, almost none of them have docks! At least, none that I have look at.

The wife and I got the mast up the other day. Real obvious where things go as far as that goes. Getting the mast up we ran into an issue in that I didn't ensure the backstay would clear the outboard and once I got her about vertical with my wife holding the forestay by hand for tension I tried to run back and clear the snag... which was to much for my poor wife to try and hold by herself and the mast started to come crashing down. I was able to somewhat save a big crash by sacrificing my hand to the fiberglass gods but no damage done and try 2 got it up.

Now my confusion comes in getting the sails up. My concern is that there are a few pully's up the front of the mast that I have no idea their functions yet

[veloccity]

Attached an image with the mast up.

[CarlF]

I wouldn't spend the money to replace the rigging without some sign of problem. Rigging loads on that boat are very low and the wire is likely bigger than it needs to be just to look right.

Go over the rigging looking for any broken strands or a very rusty strand that looks like it's about to break. Look especially carefully at the ends. Rigging in trouble will almost always break a few strands first. Replace any wire with a broken strand.

Then check everywhere that the rigging attaches to. Can you wiggle any of the fittings? Look at the spreader end fittings. Is a screw or fitting bent or badly corroded? If so, take it apart.

Check anyplace that the boat has wood for rot including tapping on the deck if it has a core. Don't panic if you find some. A little is to be expected. Put it on your list to repair but don't let it keep you from going sailing as long as it's not someplace important like the rudder fittings, mast step or stay attachments.

Assuming those check out, I'd prioritize a new set of sails ahead of most other things. New sails make a boat much easier to learn to sail. And if you have a sailmaker nearby to make them, he'll come over to the boat for free to make sure they set right. He'll show you how to get the most speed out of the boat.

One thing you can research is how to tune your rig. Those stays need to be quite tight. You'll find a lot on line about tuning but most are for bigger boats. You could hire a rigger but that's pretty expensive for a Venture 24. If a sailmaker visits the boat, he'll be able to tell you just by feel if it's really loose.

When you walk around the marina, look for old guys on nice sailboats that look like they need something to do. Most would jump at the chance to help a new sailor tune his rig and generally figure out a new boat. It might cost you a beer or two.

On their first sail people often don't pull their sails up tight enough. You don't want any bags or wrinkles on the front edge (the luff). in a small boat without winches on the mast this usually means tightening by putting the halyard around a cleat and then reaching above the cleat and pulling the halyard sideways several times to sweat another few inches. If you just get this right, you'll be ahead of 25% of the sailors out there.

Finally, a great thing about Ventures which are true of very few old boats is spare parts are available

https://shop.bwyachts.com/category-s/118.htm

[Tayana42]

Originally Posted by veloccity

The wife and I got the mast up the other day. Real obvious where things go as far as that goes. Getting the mast up we ran into an issue in that I didn't ensure the backstay would clear the outboard and once I got her about vertical with my wife holding the forestay by hand for tension I tried to run back and clear the snag... which was to much for my poor wife to try and hold by herself and the mast started to come crashing down. I was able to somewhat save a big crash by sacrificing my hand to the fiberglass gods but no damage done and try 2 got it up.

You might try attaching a line between the the trailer winch and the forestay to help haul up the mast or lower it. The winch will keep your wife safe for the truly difficult stuff.

[NorthCoastJoe]

Its just a small Macgreggor, a lot of people here have big boats. There are Macgregor forms that would be more informative. I own a Macgregor 25 and had a Venture 25 before that.

The best way to manage the mast is a line that is not held by hand. In other words pass a line around your bow pulpit to create some friction, 3 wraps should do it. You wife should be able to easily hold it then.

On mine I made a mast raising pole attatched to the trailer. It is extended about 7 feet above the deck and had a pully at the top. I used the trailer winch line up over the pully and tied to the main halyard to lift the mast. With this two people had the mast up and secure in a minuite.

I would not worry about the standing rigging, if it looks good go with it.

If i can find picture I will post it.

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by veloccity

I assume 20+ year old rigging is not a great thing, but should get me out on the water, right?

I sailed a boat for two years that had 45 year old rigging however it was a freshwater boat that had been lightly sailed. I was daysailing and didn't go out in storms.


Whether to replace the standing rigging is a judgment call. You state that there is no visible deterioration. Given that, if I were in your shoes, I would sail the boat (conservatively, as you should as you are learning) for most of a season before deciding how to proceed on costly maintenance items. You may find that there are other more pressing priorities, or that you don't like sailing, or that this is the wrong boat for you, and in those cases you will not be able to recover any funds you commit now to standing rigging.


In fact, I would go so far as to say that you are unlikely to stay with this boat for more than 2-3 years at most, because you will learn that there are things about it that you want to change, that cannot be changed without switching boats, or that are more expensive to change than it would cost to switch boats.



Remember that CF and most books, forums, etc., are oriented towards either offshore cruising or racing. These are demanding uses, and for these situations the boat must be in excellent shape. Daysailing in light winds is not the same.

The bigger issue is that while he could remember more or less how to get the mast up, he admitted to not really remembering how to rig it... Obviously I don't know either. [...] I know the 'correct' process would be to take lessons, volunteer to crew a race boat, find someone with the same/similar boat and get advise on how to rig [...] I like figuring things out on my own and this is just a hobby, so I want to do it my way... Unless this really is crazy? Thoughts?

1) If you're not certain how to rig the boat, get advice from a sailmaker or a sail-oriented marina or yard. You do not have to take lessons to get a professional to evaluate your boat and how it is rigged. Be prepared to pay the going hourly rate. It is possible/likely that the previous owner never had the boat rigged properly and that there are missing lines/hardware, that the sails are mismatched in some way, that there is no rigging for the reefing points, or that there were poor (or at least idiosyncratic) choices made for things like how each line attaches to the sail, line size, placement of sheet blocks, etc.


2) If you aren't certain of your sailing ability, be absolutely sure that the motor is reliable. If you are an experienced mechanic, get the maintenance schedule for your outboard, do everything on the list, and run it for 5 minutes in a barrel of water with the fuel tank on the ground and see that it runs reliably. Replace all the fuel lines, connectors, filters, primer bulb, and fuel pump, if there is any doubt about their age and condition. Replace the water pump impeller if it is more than one year old. If you are not a mechanic, take it to someone trustworthy and make it clear that you are prepared to pay for thorough work.


In three years I have towed two sailboats to the dock and sailed one to a dock for a friend. In all three cases, the motor had died due to fuel system problems. In all three cases, the motor was recently blessed by a mechanic with relatively little remedial work completed. Learn from these mistakes.


3) Avoid bringing non-sailors along on your initial trips unless the individuals in question have a heartfelt sense of adventure and are not easily frightened. Otherwise they will be afraid, and you will have to divide your attention between them and the boat.


4) Go out in lighter winds (5-8 knots is ideal) until you figure out what you're doing.


5) Everyone learns in a different way, fine, but be prepared for some setbacks and awkward experiences if you don't have some kind of mentorship.