USCG rescue dismasted Beneteau Oceanis 39 from Alex

[Sailor Sailor]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

... The Pardeys wrote of a storm tactic where the deployed a sea anchor off the bow, close to the boat, using the spinnaker pole, guyed fore and aft, to locate the anchor right next to the boat, to keep the bows up, and the boat stopped. The danger is that with a stopped boat, then sliding backwards down the wave, if the rudder is not secured really well, you could easily break the rudder. ("Ramtha", a catamaran caught in the Queen's Birthday Storm between NZ and Tonga in '94, lost both rudders lying to a sea anchor. I'm sure you could Google the NZ report on the Storm and get more details.)...

I read the Pardey's books, Cruising in Serrafin and Storm Tactics. What they advise is a parachute anchor with several hundred feet of rode, enough to stay in the water more than a second crest away of the oncoming waves. A line with a block is led to a cleat aft to pull the rode from centering on the bow, so you are about 40-45 degrees to the wind and waves. Your movement through the water will create a slick. A trysail can help keep the boat forereaching against the para anchor, if you can carry it.

Matt Rutherford used a parachute anchor extensively. He advises 600 feet of rode, with 100 feet of chain nearest the boat. The boat should drift backwards no faster than 1/2 knot to 1 knot. The slow speed protects the rudder from damage. He survived a 50+ knot storm for 10 days on a parachute anchor in the Bering Straits on an Albin Vega 27' fin keel boat.

Don't take my word for it - look at the data. Victor Shane's Drag Device database is a very useful resource for storm tactics.

There is really no reason why a bluewater cruiser should not carry a parachute anchor for a worst case scenario. If nothing else, it will slow the boat's drift down at sea. This device started with the West Coast fishing boats after WWII, riding out storms in the Pacific near California. You can buy a surplus military parachute off eBay for less than $100 and rig your own rode with chafing protection. Here is the photo of one I bought this winter for about $80 - a 15' surplus military parachute - these are used to brake planes or drop supplies from the air. With a eye swivel and a rode, you have another tactic to try.

[Joli]

It looks like they ran with the storm and ran right into it. They were in the NE quadrant which requires starboard tack, hard on the wind to get away from it. Running in that quadrant brings them into the center of the low.

[wholybee]

He states in his account that the predictwind screen capture is not his track, but just a prediction he ran. He actually sailed south of that route, by about 20 degrees. Then the storm also turned south.

One of his complaints, which is worth discussing and even complaining to predictwind:
I am pretty sure that in 2020 when I used predictwind it updated every 4 hours with the gfs and emcwf models. However, now it only updates every 12. So for 12 hours he was sailing closer to the storm, when he thought the storm had turned north.

Why did predictwind make this change, and could that be a significant factor in the loss of the vessel? It really devalues predictwind when gfs is available every 4 hours for free.

[Joli]

Originally Posted by wholybee

He states in his account that the predictwind screen capture is not his track, but just a prediction he ran. He actually sailed south of that route, by about 20 degrees. Then the storm also turned south.

One of his complaints, which is worth discussing and even complaining to predictwind:
I am pretty sure that in 2020 when I used predictwind it updated every 4 hours with the gfs and emcwf models. However, now it only updates every 12. So for 12 hours he was sailing closer to the storm, when he thought the storm had turned north.

Why did predictwind make this change, and could that be a significant factor in the loss of the vessel? It really devalues predictwind when gfs is available every 4 hours for free.

That doesn't change the fact that they were on the dangerous side of the storm. If the breeze is behind you the storm is to your left. They sailed right into it. They should have been hard on the wind, starboard tack, getting distance from the storm, not running.

[Auklet]

Potentially a consequence of too heavy a reliance on digital information. You’re in or near a cyclone—you know the circulation pattern, therefore the direction away from the storm at one moment in time. But if it changes direction relative to you? I suppose if the wind diminishes you’re getting away. If it increases, you’re converging with it and need to turn away again after concluding the changing bearing of the storm’s center?

[Sailor Sailor]

Originally Posted by Auklet

Potentially a consequence of too heavy a reliance on digital information. You’re in or near a cyclone—you know the circulation pattern, therefore the direction away from the storm at one moment in time. But if it changes direction relative to you? I suppose if the wind diminishes you’re getting away. If it increases, you’re converging with it and need to turn away again after concluding the changing bearing of the storm’s center?

A good reason for monitoring your low-tech barometer and for remembering Guy Ballot's law - with your back to the wind, the low is to your left. In the Northern Hemisphere, closed hauled on starboard or heave to on starboard always takes you out of the most dangerous NE quadrant. Even if he had laid to a para anchor, the storm would have passed by him much quicker. Instead he lay a-hull or ran with makeshift warps, keeping him in the storm, and exposing him to the risk of broaching.

[Auklet]

But yes, 12 h is too long between updates in an area of active weather, if not generally so. Six h is the appropriate amount of time coupled with any special weather alerts that might be issued. MMQB here, though. It’s hard to think straight when surrounded by urgency, fatigue, and maybe bewilderment as well. I wouldn’t wish to face it. If the boat and skipper are struggling mightily to make a close-hauled course, running off might seem the correct decision.

[goboatingnow]

The first thing is few boats withstand a violent 360 roll usually the mast will come down and and from that point you are severely disadvantage stability wise

Other things will likely fail . It’s not a matter of securing the batteries

It’s really a dice roll pure luck plays a big part

I’m a fan of active sailing ,don’t slow the boat unless absolutely necessary

Running off down wind is a great strategy in a spade and fin. Bashing to windward is a nightmare

The only way I go to winward is by “jogging “ this is a technique the trawlers use. Use the engine to fore reach into the waves

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Sailor Sailor

A good reason for monitoring your low-tech barometer and for remembering Guy Ballot's law - with your back to the wind, the low is to your left. In the Northern Hemisphere, closed hauled on starboard or heave to on starboard always takes you out of the most dangerous NE quadrant. Even if he had laid to a para anchor, the storm would have passed by him much quicker. Instead he lay a-hull or ran with makeshift warps, keeping him in the storm, and exposing him to the risk of broaching.

Most fin keel boats will not reliably hove to.

[Joli]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Most fin keel boats will not reliably hove to.

We did two years ago when TS Bertha developed. We were in almost the same situation as this boat. We tacked to starboard, hove to headed south east, moving about 1.5~2 knots. Had the storm approached us we would have put the gas pedal down. You have to be able to sail upwind in a breeze sometimes.

We're the boat in the middle (blue dot) with Bertha in front of us. Ruined our passage average parking the boat for 14 hours. It looked like we were going to be in Charleston in 5.5 days from the VI's till Bertha showed up.

[JPA Cate]

Of course one's batteries should be secured for a roll over! This is not the first boat I've heard of where they came loose. Often they're lead acid batteries, and you don't want them sliding around, or flying around, either. Securing them is tricky, because just acid resistant straps will get acid-eaten and then no longer work to hold them down. For example, ours are held in the bottom of the locker with timber, and then a latching locker lid.

In case there's some one out there who doesn't know it, sulfuric acid can burn your skin very fast. It hurts like hell. I learned this before I ever knew about chemistry at all, because my mother had an acid burn scar on the back of her hand that never went away.

Ann

[NevilleCat]

Originally Posted by Sailor Sailor

I read the Pardey's books, Cruising in Serrafin and Storm Tactics.

Don't take my word for it - look at the data. Victor Shane's Drag Device database is a very useful resource for storm tactics.

There is really no reason why a bluewater cruiser should not carry a parachute anchor for a worst case scenario. If nothing else, it will slow the boat's drift down at sea. This device started with the West Coast fishing boats after WWII, riding out storms in the Pacific near California. You can buy a surplus military parachute off eBay for less than $100 and rig your own rode with chafing protection. Here is the photo of one I bought this winter for about $80 - a 15' surplus military parachute - these are used to brake planes or drop supplies from the air. With a eye swivel and a rode, you have another tactic to try.

Be careful here...in almost every case of parachute anchor failure which has led to a general mistrust and misunderstanding of the technique, the "anchor" in question has been one similar to what you describe rather than one specifically designed and engineered to work in the conditions that you are likely to need it.
There are available internationally a few different brands that are fit for purpose and, yes they are expensive but for use in these types of scenarios I would rather be throwing the right thing over the side personally.

[boatman61]

Maybe more emphasis should be placed on avoiding having to resort to emergency tactics..
Windy etc are all well and good but learning to read the ocean as well is important.. it can give one 12 to 24hrs notice of what is coming and valuable time to alter course to avoid the worst of the weather.
A building swell from one direction for example or, the early signs of a cross swell as it builds across the predominant swell can alert you to a coming change in wind direction.
Electronics are okay but, electronics + Nature is better.

[Tetepare]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

Of course one's batteries should be secured for a roll over!

Ann

For fear of starting the blue water banter again, that Beneteau wasn’t made for those conditions.

Our battery boxes are secured with one screw to a non-fixed plywood base. Our floorboards aren’t secured. Our Lewmar ports are two piece aluminum with plastic dogs. Our hatches have plastic latches. The bulkwards are tabbed, not glassed. Cabinets have cheap plastic latches. Lazarettes have floppy latches that need a lock to be secured. And our boat is better built than that Beneteau.

And on the misinformation that fin keels can’t heave to: that’s rubbish. I do it all the time. Do they stay as steady as a full keel in a big breaker? Probably not. But absolutely a fin keel can, and so can a cat.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Tetepare

For fear of starting the blue water banter again, that Beneteau wasn’t made for those conditions.

Our battery boxes are secured with one screw to a non-fixed plywood base. Our floorboards aren’t secured. Our Lewmar ports are two piece aluminum with plastic dogs. Our hatches have plastic latches. The bulkwards are tabbed, not glassed. Cabinets have cheap plastic latches. Lazarettes have floppy latches that need a lock to be secured. And our boat is better built than that Beneteau.

And on the misinformation that fin keels can’t heave to: that’s rubbish. I do it all the time. Do they stay as steady as a full keel in a big breaker? Probably not. But absolutely a fin keel can, and so can a cat.

Try heaving to in a storm and unless you taken several fin keels through oceans storms don’t tell me it’s rubbish. Most modern boats will sail on their coachroof alone , they forereach too fast ,blow down wind and power up or tack through due to sea conditions.

Great technique for a cup of tea in 25 knots , largely useless in 50 with a big sea running. These boats need active not passive techniques

Having owned a 393 it’s well screwed together but the situation encountered would challenge any boat

My Bavaria has screwed down sole boards , the batteries are strapped to a glassed in solid base , my main bulkheads are completely glassed in. The lewmar hatches are common to a wide variety of high end makes. Etc etc.

Would it survive , such a situation , probably not ,nor would many boats. In fact the 393 even when rolled still protected it’s crew.

Boats don’t protect sailors from bad decisions end of story