Help..1972 Pearson 33 refit

[AndDavRos]

Well, if it’s 5200 holding the gudgeon in place I have had good luck with ‘DeBond’, patience and a hydraulic jack/press. If you can find a way to apply steady downward pressure on the rudder/post, and hit the joint with DeBond, might do it. I throw this out there because I had to remove a bronze packing gland that was set with 5200 (steel hull though) and it took a hydraulic bottle jack and about two days of applying DeBond and adding a little pressure every few hours before the thing lifted.

[Uncle Bob]

Originally Posted by glcalahan

Kmacdonld....I am almost on board with that. This boat will be a new 1972 and a major challenge! Everything is replaced...wiring, interior and plumbing etc. If I pull the engine I may as well replace the mounts.....wondering how much for Yanmar 2GM20F motor mts???

Hi, is there sufficient room to lift the motor in situ and slide the shaft out underneath? This would require an alignment so probably a good time to replace mounts.

[kmacdonald]

If you get Yanmar mounts they will cost a fortune. There are plenty of other options that aren't that expensive. About $100. Cushyfloat Product Range - Trelleborg IAVS
See what ones you would need and google the part number for best price. Front and rear may be different depending on your engine setup. I think Nanni uses those but not sure.

[glcalahan]

Actually I researched 5200 DeBond and already been using with butane but am about to try Map. I thought of designing a wheel puller device. This really has been my biggest challenge of 6 boats in my lifetime!!

[glcalahan]

I am thinking one aft motor mt stationary and lifting motor port or Stb.

[glcalahan]

Originally Posted by kmacdonald

If you get Yanmar mounts they will cost a fortune. There are plenty of other options that aren't that expensive. About $100. Cushyfloat Product Range - Trelleborg IAVS
See what ones you would need and google the part number for best price. Front and rear may be different depending on your engine setup. I think Nanni uses those but not sure.

I bet they are! I have to look more closely tomorrow! I will save the link! I want to thank all the brain storming! Thanks and keeper coming.

[Boatyarddog]

Originally Posted by glcalahan

Kmacdonld....I am almost on board with that. This boat will be a new 1972 and a major challenge! Everything is replaced...wiring, interior and plumbing etc. If I pull the engine I may as well replace the mounts.....wondering how much for Yanmar 2GM20F motor mts???

Yanmar has different density engine mounts, softer on the non tourqueing side.
They are about $80 to $120 each.
Available.
As for the shaft, if the prop is off, the whole thing, you have an aperture, if you can swing it side to side 90degrees, you may find that there is just enough room to slip the shaft past the rudder.
Possibly, you can remove enough of the inside area of the aperture to facilitate removal.
Pictures help! You may have to remove the rudder "shoe".
SV Cloud Duster

[Boatyarddog]

Originally Posted by glcalahan

I am looking for advice on removing the old prop shaft to replace with new. This P33 shaft is center line of the rudder and moving to port or stbd does not offset to remove shaft. This is a skeg mounted rudder with rudder shaft thru top to bottom so a cut out won't work. The bronze gudgeon that is attached to skeg has 4-3/8" SS bolts and likely not been removed in 45 yrs. I simply exhausted all ideas with no luck. Than it was suggested to remove the transmission/bell housing of the 2GM20F would give me room to pull old shaft from inside. I looked at it today and I doubt that will work. Anyone know of any P33 owners or anyone have a suggestion? It appears the adhesive used is just kicking my arse. I have tried heat, large chisel and 5 # sled......frustrated! Help please!

GLC

Looks like this?

[glcalahan]

I also thought that by removing the cutless, packing gland and the rubber hose from glass shaft that I could swing past rudder but there still was not enough clearance. Now I am desperate enough retry and shave some glass....I suspect there is 3/8"-3/4" thickness of glass before I hit the SS rudder shaft. Thanks....I will try before attempting to shift the motor.

[guyrj33]

you could try asking your question on
pearson-boats@googlegroups.com


Guy

[Cheechako]

If you want to remove the rudder, then heat the bronze shoe, if it is 5200 that will loosen it up fast. The bigger the shoe the more heat will be required.
But maybe lifting the engine, especially if you want to replace mounts is the way to go. Block and tackle on a 4x4 over the companionway. That's a light engine. Two guys lifted a bigger 3GM out of my catamaran by hand.
However, removing the rudder on a boat that old is a good idea also. The rudder shaft may be badly corroded.

[Boatyarddog]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

If you want to remove the rudder, then heat the bronze shoe, if it is 5200 that will loosen it up fast. The bigger the shoe the more heat will be required.
But maybe lifting the engine, especially if you want to replace mounts is the way to go. Block and tackle on a 4x4 over the companionway. That's a light engine. Two guys lifted a bigger 3GM out of my catamaran by hand.
However, removing the rudder on a boat that old is a good idea also. The rudder shaft may be badly corroded.

Awesome advise!!

[TrentePieds]

Look here:

PEARSON 33 sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com

Your only real problem is the gudgeon. Get rid of that and the rest becomes (should become) easy. The steps are:

1) Lash up the rudder so it can't drop and so that you can let it down gently using the lashing-cum-tackle

2) Drop the cables/link rods from binnacle to rudder quadrant

3) Pull the rudder quadrant

4) Pull any collar that may be holding the rudder stock up into the steering tube. That job MAY be done by the quadrant itself.

5) Pull the gudgeon now BUT NOT BEFORE, or the rudder will drop out of control!

6) Drop the rudder.

From there on it is easy though once the rudder is off and you've split the flange twixt tranny and shaft, You may have to use a sliding hammer at the prop end to convince the shaft to move aft enough to get the flange off so the shaft will come all the way out.

Now for the gudgeon: You say there are four retaining bolts that you have already removed? Grab your 4 1/2" grinder and clear the muck off the port and starboard sides of the gudgeon. Are there any bolts you've overlooked? If so, pull 'em and try again.

If it still won't come off, remove it destructively with the grinder, but before you do, measure the "cheeks" of it carefully and make a dimensioned sketch. From the sketch, and perhaps a pattern you've made, have a replacement fabricated from stainless steel. You may be able to incorporate the salvaged bearing cup. If not, making one from tubing will not be difficult.

Going that route will be far cheaper and less potentially injurious to the boat than messing with the engine.

The stock may run from top to bottom in the rudder. Bad practice, though common. On a transom or skeg hung rudder, there should always be a cut-out to serve as a "gate" that permits the shaft to be pulled through it, and, for that matter, to get tools like a hub-puller onto the prop. Butf if the stock does run all through, I'd leave well enuff alone since having to pull the shaft doesn't happen all that often.

TP

[glcalahan]

I don't know what the adhesive is or if 31M 5200 was around 47 years ago but butane isn't hot enough. I bought the hotter Map gas but haven't tried it yet. There is not visible corrosion but realize the rudder glass trunk is not seen daylight in many years.... Thanks! All good advice! It has been a PITA!

[glcalahan]

Originally Posted by TrentePieds

Look here:

PEARSON 33 sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com

Your only real problem is the gudgeon. Get rid of that and the rest becomes (should become) easy. The steps are:

1) Lash up the rudder so it can't drop and so that you can let it down gently using the lashing-cum-tackle

2) Drop the cables/link rods from binnacle to rudder quadrant

3) Pull the rudder quadrant

4) Pull any collar that may be holding the rudder stock up into the steering tube. That job MAY be done by the quadrant itself.

5) Pull the gudgeon now BUT NOT BEFORE, or the rudder will drop out of control!

6) Drop the rudder.

From there on it is easy though once the rudder is off and you've split the flange twixt tranny and shaft, You may have to use a sliding hammer at the prop end to convince the shaft to move aft enough to get the flange off so the shaft will come all the way out.

Now for the gudgeon: You say there are four retaining bolts that you have already removed? Grab your 4 1/2" grinder and clear the muck off the port and starboard sides of the gudgeon. Are there any bolts you've overlooked? If so, pull 'em and try again.

If it still won't come off, remove it destructively with the grinder, but before you do, measure the "cheeks" of it carefully and make a dimensioned sketch. From the sketch, and perhaps a pattern you've made, have a replacement fabricated from stainless steel. You may be able to incorporate the salvaged bearing cup. If not, making one from tubing will not be difficult.

Going that route will be far cheaper and less potentially injurious to the boat than messing with the engine.

The stock may run from top to bottom in the rudder. Bad practice, though common. On a transom or skeg hung rudder, there should always be a cut-out to serve as a "gate" that permits the shaft to be pulled through it, and, for that matter, to get tools like a hub-puller onto the prop. Butf if the stock does run all through, I'd leave well enuff alone since having to pull the shaft doesn't happen all that often.

TP

Thanks and yes, very familiar with Saildata! Good stuff!

I have wedged a cut piling under rudder to so rudder does not fall. I am going to thourghly clean the bronze gudgeon to be sure I had not missed any bolts. I have removed the 4-3/8" that I previously found....I want to be certain I haven't missed any. Only thing holding is adhesive which seems to be the issue. I already cut the prop off....2 of 3 blades were gone due to electrolysis and have a new prop AND shaft. I figured the SS shaft would also be compromised so had new one made. I really don't want to mess with moving Yanmar aside to pull from inside....thanks!!!