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Old 21-07-2020, 20:15   #46
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Re: Bahamas closes borders to U.S. tourists after COVID-19 cases spike; others still

Based on the data I’ve seen, it looks like a bandaid, pull it off quick like Sweden, or slow like the US and Europe, Best you can do is don’t force sick people into places like nursing homes with their already near death residents, and hope you have a good healthcare system, trying to hide from this virus appears to be as futile as attempting to hide the flu, even with washing hands and vaccinations some folks still manage to get the flu.

Bahamas also requires the US for medevac in all major medical issues, so that could factor in.

Bad situation this thing, but no sense destroying fragile island economies for but a practice in futility
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Old 22-07-2020, 06:00   #47
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Re: Bahamas closes borders to U.S. tourists after COVID-19 cases spike; others still

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Originally Posted by Mike OReilly View Post
But that's not how it works. When truckers cross our borders they go through strict assessment and monitoring. They are not simply free to go all over the country. I thought I was pretty clear on that. You seem to be suggesting that the "essential" traffic is somehow evidence for some sort of lockdown charade. You are the first to suggest this. It's a risk assessment.



I have no idea how viable your idea would be regarding the dropping of trailers at the border, and I suspect neither do you. If it were that simple I have confidence it would have been done that way.



Canada and the USA closed the border to non-essential travel in an attempt to better control the spread of the disease. At least in Canada this has certainly happened.

I’ve worked with and driven trucks, dropping trailers is as common as changing cars in a train, that’s why freight yards exist, to drop a trailer and have another truck pick it up.
You have dispatchers that match up trucks and trailers and these days I’m sure it’s software, but in my day it was done on paper.
It’s actually incredibly efficient, and very, very common.

Of course they spread out all over the country, they have to deliver the goods don’t they, and then I’m pretty certain they travel to some other location and load the truck. But they are stopping to eat, fuel, shower and often stay in a motel etc. All of the time coming into contact with other people.
A trucker would be among the most effective vector there could be by nature of how much ground they cover.

So yes I’m saying that if any Country is letting in 100,000 people a week and allowing them to scatter to all corners of the Country, then stating they have closed the borders is a sham, those 100,000 then return to the quarantined area and return next week, rinse and repeat.

When we first came back, we had heard that the State borders were closed and you couldn’t travel to another State. We were in Fl with our car in Ga.
What we found out was that wasn’t true at all, we rented a car, was taken to the rental company by an Uber and got our car.

As near as I can tell, there is no difference in the way anything is done at all, but then I detest crowds and don’t go to football games and bars etc. so from my observation all of what you read about is a sham.
Busses aren’t running, so you get into an Uber, it’s just more money spent is the difference, but you can still do everything you used to be able to do, except apparently to gather in mass crowds, just you wear a mask, walk in one direction in the Supermarket and spread out while waiting in line.

Bahama’s locked down, now I admit that it’s not realistic, not at least for most Countries to lock down, or to do so for very long.
So yes I think most of this is a sham, it’s making a show of doing something, but not actually accomplishing anything.

We are traveling right now, we are at my Mother in law’s house as I type this in Americus Ga. Every business is open, every restaurant, every gas station, every motel, everything.

So from my observation, it’s a sham. I assume there is some noise made to make people feel better, make them think “something” is being done, but not really.
That 100,000 is just truckers too, once you include air crews and other shipping means and no telling how much other essential travel, that number is actually much, much higher.

100,000 is the entire population of a decently sized city, so a small city is crossing the border every week, and that’s what closed means
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Old 22-07-2020, 06:05   #48
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Re: Bahamas closes borders to U.S. tourists after COVID-19 cases spike; others still

It it brings up a point, and that’s the people in the Bahama’s would very quickly starve, and lose power and all fuel etc very, very soon without constant re supply from the US, because there is essentially no agriculture in the Bahamas now, used to be, but not anymore.
With only a very few exceptions, everything in the Bahamas is imported form the US, Fl in fact. You know the infected place
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Old 22-07-2020, 06:45   #49
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Re: Bahamas closes borders to U.S. tourists after COVID-19 cases spike; others still

So, anything less than a 100%, absolute closure is a sham? You have a rather absolutist way of viewing things. It's not a sham. It's a risk assessment/cost benefit calculus our countries have made. Without trucking, people will starve.

It's not the mechanical switching of cars that is the challenge. It is the logistics of that kind of flow. And yes, there is a very real risk of transmission through truckers, but this is mitigated by strict controls. These people can't simply "scatter to all parts of the country." The monitoring systems are in place to hopefully manage and contain the inevitable disease they bring in. As I say, at least in Canada it seems to be working.

Regardless of your personal definitions, the simple question I asked is: I wonder what the calculus was for the Bahamian government in making their decision? I assume it is a risk assessment, and/or a cost-benefit analysis of some sort.

Barring commercial travel but leaving private open is an interesting choice. Is it that they believe the private traveler is less likely to carry the virus? Is it just that this will allow them to keep incoming down to a level where monitoring and contract tracing is viable? Or is it that these people represent the best bang for the buck when trying to keep some tourist revenue flowing.

It's just interesting.
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Old 22-07-2020, 07:01   #50
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Re: Bahamas closes borders to U.S. tourists after COVID-19 cases spike; others still

No Mike, but over 100,000 a week is excessive, especially when it’s preventable.
Do you really think over 100,000 per week are being monitored, and what does that mean anyway? Not even the NKVD of old could pull that off.
What “strict controls” do you believe are in place?
I would say at first glance that you have fallen for the hype, because it’s my belief that over 100,000 people that are in fact distributed through a Country cannot be monitored or controlled.
To believe it can is drinking the Koolaid.

Wait, where did 100K come from? I’ve slept since this started, but even if it’s 15K, it’s still way behind any kind of monitoring or control. Even for a Police State, which of course Canada is not.

On edit, I think your answer for the Bahamas is pretty simple, it’s follow the money. Sounds bad, sounds like discrimination which it is, but the ugly truth is they need the money, and the least people with the most money is the goal.
Of course this is a guess, but I believe it to be a logical one.
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Old 22-07-2020, 07:28   #51
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Re: Bahamas closes borders to U.S. tourists after COVID-19 cases spike; others still

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Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
No Mike, but over 100,000 a week is excessive, especially when it’s preventable.
Do you really think over 100,000 per week are being monitored, and what does that mean anyway? Not even the NKVD of old could pull that off.
What “strict controls” do you believe are in place?
I would say at first glance that you have fallen for the hype, because it’s my belief that over 100,000 people that are in fact distributed through a Country cannot be monitored or controlled.
To believe it can is drinking the Koolaid.

Wait, where did 100K come from? I’ve slept since this started, but even if it’s 15K, it’s still way behind any kind of monitoring or control. Even for a Police State, which of course Canada is not.

On edit, I think your answer for the Bahamas is pretty simple, it’s follow the money. Sounds bad, sounds like discrimination which it is, but the ugly truth is they need the money, and the least people with the most money is the goal.
Of course this is a guess, but I believe it to be a logical one.

And I believe you have fallen into paranoia. I guess we can both believe whatever we want . Good thing beliefs don't drive our reaction to this disease (at least not in Canada). And yes, it is amusing that you keep tossing out different numbers, with no backing or context, but whatever. Not worth harping over. It is what it is...

If you actually want to know how Canada is attempting to monitor and control essential service workers who must cross the border, then you can read it on our federal and provincial websites. No, it's not perfect. But there's that 100% thing again. Regardless of its imperfections, I know of no major outbreaks blamed on truckers -- at least not in this country.

But I still don't even know what we're really talking about. All I did was query as to the rationale for the Bahamian decision. My daring to ask the question seems to have triggered you somehow.
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Old 22-07-2020, 07:59   #52
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Re: Bahamas closes borders to U.S. tourists after COVID-19 cases spike; others still

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Originally Posted by Mike OReilly View Post
I'm sure you're correct Chris. The US has been allowing Canadians to fly across the border, as the reverse seems to be true as well. There are supposed to be limited to "essential travel", but I guess everyone thinks their travel is essential.
No Mike it was this statement that had me look.
I have backed up the 30,000 trucks per week statement with a link that you agreed was probably accurate.
Then I said it was maybe only 15,000 coming into Canada and the other half in the US.
The 100K, I guess I made up when I slept, and I caught that and corrected it.

You want to believe that your Govt has things under control and that they are effectively monitoring and controlling people that cross the border.
But the numbers are so large and trucking by itís nature is impossible to control, believing that itís controlled is drinking the Koolaid.

You could monitor and control say a sports team, but not 15,000 trucks a week.
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Old 22-07-2020, 08:18   #53
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Re: Bahamas closes borders to U.S. tourists after COVID-19 cases spike; others still

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...You want to believe that your Govt has things under control and that they are effectively monitoring and controlling people that cross the border.
But the numbers are so large and trucking by itís nature is impossible to control, believing that itís controlled is drinking the Koolaid.

You could monitor and control say a sports team, but not 15,000 trucks a week.

I don't WANT to believe anything. It is you that keeps imposing what you think I believe onto me. All I ever said was that there are systems in place to mitigate the risk of maintaining the flow of essential goods via trucking. And I also said that so far there have not been any major outbreaks due to truckers, at least not in Canada.
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Old 22-07-2020, 08:41   #54
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Re: Bahamas closes borders to U.S. tourists after COVID-19 cases spike; others still

My understanding is the same as Jedi. The flight cancellation was because Bahamians were bringing back the virus after trips to Florida. You could fly to Florida and return in less than 72 hours without needing a test.

But this is a fast moving situation. When the Bahamas came up with their plan to require a recent test prior to arrival, the PCR tests were readily available. Just a few weeks ago I got a PCR test at a CVS with a same day appointment that came back in less than 48 hours. Now they're listing 7-10 days on their web site.

And testing is also a moving target. The tests have improved a lot since April. Most of the current test delay is due to lab backup. The Abbott labs IDNow test that the White House uses gives an answer in 5 minutes. There were questions about its accuracy back in May but this was traced to not handling the swabs according to the instructions. Since then, other highly accurate fast tests have come out. It's unbelievable that six months after the virus appears and billions in federal spending that Americans can't get these tests as a walk-in at a clinic or drug store in their hometown.
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Old 22-07-2020, 08:46   #55
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Re: Bahamas closes borders to U.S. tourists after COVID-19 cases spike; others still

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No Mike it was this statement that had me look.
I have backed up the 30,000 trucks per week statement with a link that you agreed was probably accurate.
Then I said it was maybe only 15,000 coming into Canada and the other half in the US.
The 100K, I guess I made up when I slept, and I caught that and corrected it.

You want to believe that your Govt has things under control and that they are effectively monitoring and controlling people that cross the border.
But the numbers are so large and trucking by itís nature is impossible to control, believing that itís controlled is drinking the Koolaid.

You could monitor and control say a sports team, but not 15,000 trucks a week.
So basically what you are saying is; Canada is doing this just make their citizens to drink the cool aid even though thousands of businesses such as lodges,hotels and outfitters are bankrupting because Americans can't come in and spend money. That's some pretty expensive cool aid to drink. Bottom line is there can be no absolute shutdown between two countries and they're managing the best they can with minimum risk and it shows in their numbers unlike us.
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Old 23-07-2020, 18:44   #56
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Re: Bahamas closes borders to U.S. tourists after COVID-19 cases spike; others still

I don’t know how to link to an email so I took a screen shot, this is the email the US Embassy send out if you sign up.
It not in its entirety, but I believe does show the important bits.
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Old 23-07-2020, 18:51   #57
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Re: Bahamas closes borders to U.S. tourists after COVID-19 cases spike; others still

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So basically what you are saying is; Canada is doing this just make their citizens to drink the cool aid even though thousands of businesses such as lodges,hotels and outfitters are bankrupting because Americans can't come in and spend money. That's some pretty expensive cool aid to drink. Bottom line is there can be no absolute shutdown between two countries and they're managing the best they can with minimum risk and it shows in their numbers unlike us.

History tells us that once a disease has penetrated an area, locking down doesn’t make it go away, neither does shunning strangers, that goes back to Medieval times and many since then.

People can think what they want about the “numbers” but I think there is more to it than slowing border crossing down.
But 15,000 truckers a day, every day is a rather large number of people don’t you think?
So yes I believe that it’s to a great extent a show, you have to do something or the people will be unhappy, so you do something.
But as I said anyone that’s worked with trucking and trucks knows that dropping trailers is no big deal.
Logically the number of trucks going both ways has to be equal or soon they would all be on one side, so it would be pretty simple to ensure trucks and truckers don’t cross the borders.
Yes it would take dispatchers and some large gravel parking lots, but that’s not hard.
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Old 23-07-2020, 19:33   #58
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Re: Bahamas closes borders to U.S. tourists after COVID-19 cases spike; others still

I had posted this factual article on the Canada Covid thread a cupla days ago & am re?posting it here.
For those people (& countries) that believe in Covid Tests (of any current type),the current facts are :
A negative Covid test proves nothing.
You may test negative for several days in a row-while you are infected & contagious to others!

A covid test is only useful if you test positive.Then the nurse tells you to go home & quarantine.
If you get really sick,then you go to hospital. Cheers/Len


https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/coron...12O-hCPSrU--aE
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Old 23-07-2020, 20:09   #59
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Re: Bahamas closes borders to U.S. tourists after COVID-19 cases spike; others still

Since Covid Testing is inconclusive,you cannot prove you are Covid free to anybody or country.
That is the reason that you should 14day quarantine if you enter another country.It takes up to 14 days of no symptoms to prove you are not carrying Covid.
This fact has been proven & I can post various links to back this up.
I live in one of the 4 Canadian Atlantic Provinces. None of the 4 have had a single "homegrown" Covid case for over 2 mos.-(must be a record)
The few cases that have cropped up in that time have all been very quickly tracked & isolated(quarantine or hospitalized & cured) Every single one of those cases had been brought into one of the provinces by a traveller-most of whom did not 14 day quarantine.
The third tool has been the amazingly fast tracking system being used here.When a case did pop up,up to several hundred people who may have had contact were tracked down within days & told to quarantine themselves. Luckily we are an easy going lot & most voluntarily complied. We covid-shamed the stubborn ones
We are hurting $$,but we are already partly & carefully going back to work & school,etc.We suffered 5-6 mos. of almost complete lockdown,but we got thru it.Damned if we are going to throw that all away,so our borders with the rest of Canada & the US will remain closed til you get similar control.

We realize & accept that the future will not be the same until a cure is found.
Personally,I can't argue with what is working for us. YMMV

Cheers & good luck / Len
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Old 25-07-2020, 10:05   #60
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Re: Bahamas closes borders to U.S. tourists after COVID-19 cases spike; others still

Screenshot of latest US Embassy email, in my opinion, if your still there, it looks as if you May should consider leaving.
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