Morgan 41, 1974 what to check when buying?

[dokondr]

Hi all!


Please advise what to look for when buying Morgan 41 from 1974 with Mitsubishi 55 engine. According to the pics the boat overall seems to be in a good condition, including the engine.
Owner says that when walking on a deck no squeaking sounds come. So it looks like sandwich is still good. Also no leaks between the deck and the hull. Chain-plates look good.
In-boom furling makes me uneasy, as for me it is more prone to damage and not reliable in crossing the pond.

Your advise is very welcome, thanks!

[flyingfin]

47 year old vessel, thru hull fittings, cables, standing rigging and engine?
Has every fitting and window been removed and re-bedded for the second time?


Basically, every mechanical item is fully depreciated, bid accordingly based on how much pain your wallet can endure.

[Svsumurun]

Originally Posted by flyingfin

47 year old vessel, thru hull fittings, cables, standing rigging and engine?
Has every fitting and window been removed and re-bedded for the second time?


Basically, every mechanical item is fully depreciated, bid accordingly based on how much pain your wallet can endure.

Not that I know anything about Morgan's per se, but this exactly .. Mitsubishi parts ( if they are anything like the cars) are very expensive . I have never heard of the 'squeak' test - walking on the deck with your bare feet slowly is the best test I have found . Based in your picture of the bolts , doesn't look like you can see the chain plates - just because the bolts look good, doesn't mean the plates are. Not sure where this is , but sails on the furler on the hard would be a bad sign of the PO here.
And I have to say, looking at the pictures, is it normal for the forestay to be offset and the bow roller centered? Might be, but I've never seen that before.
Our boat is a 79 and was completely refit 10 years ago , and I'm fixing things all the time - and that's with 1/2 the year out of the water!

[dokondr]

Originally Posted by Svsumurun

...

And I have to say, looking at the pictures, is it normal for the forestay to be offset and the bow roller centered? Might be, but I've never seen that before.

Yes, thanks. I have the same doubts, never seen this before.

[dokondr]

Any experience with in-boom main furling? How hard it is to reef main for a singlehander in this case? Can this be done with one hand easing main halyard and with another hand furling main in the boom standing by the mast? One needs a third hand to hold himself, right?

[s/v Moondancer]

In boom roller furling, depending on the make, can often be a 3 handed job.

However, the standing rigging and chainplates, unless replaced, would be a deal killer for me. I had a boat built in 1984 and over 11 years I had a total of 2 shrouds and 2 chain plates fail in ocean conditions. The rig stayed up because of redundancy and fast action.

[dokondr]

Originally Posted by s/v Moondancer

However, the standing rigging and chainplates, unless replaced, would be a deal killer for me. I had a boat built in 1984 and over 11 years I had a total of 2 shrouds and 2 chain plates fail in ocean conditions. The rig stayed up because of redundancy and fast action.

Thanks, makes sense, agree. This is a good advice to check first of all other boat checks.

In boom roller furling, depending on the make, can often be a 3 handed job.

Could you please explain with crew roles. Can't be done solo?

[Midnight Son]

If you're serious about the boat, hire a marine surveyor.

[Sailing August]

Morgan built very solid hulls and they built a lot of them. Great shallow draft cruiser. It will sail like a pig but that is the price you pay for all that cruiser living space. Check all the normal items you would on a 40 year old boat. Thru hulls, rudder bearings, stern tube bearing and seal, engine, standing rigging, ect.
Get a good survey so that know what you are getting into. Don't know much about the engine.
Good luck. Please let us know how it turns out.

[Scrimshaw4]

Get the harshest surveyor you can find and have him scour the boat from keel to masthead. A moisture meter analysis of the entire hull above and below the water line as well as the deck and coach roof, thorough rigging inspection, plus a wiring and mechanical evaluation I think is mandatory for a boat of that vintage. I believe the Morgan Out Island 41's were built more for the charter / coastal cruising market and not as off shore ocean crossers.
The other area of concern might be insurability. JMHO

[Finalee]

I looked at a number of Morgan OI 41'S. The chain plates are external. The rigs are simple. Furling mainsail not a detractor.
The newer motor is a plus. Survey a must. Get an objective one who tells it straight.
What's the price?

[Hudson Force]

Originally Posted by flyingfin

............
............ Basically, every mechanical item is fully depreciated, bid accordingly based on how much pain your wallet can endure.

This depreciation of mechanical items might not be the case. When I sold my 1973 Morgan in 2017 there were very few mechanical items on board that were original to the boat. Those that did remain were robust.

Here is a list of items that I found needed care on my two 1973 Morgan OI's (33' and 41') for my 44 years of cruising these boats:

- The aluminum back-up plate to the stem fitting within the anchor locker is subject to corrosion.
- I found a need to replace the mounting of all of my portlights (I believe your '74 would not have these large black rubber gaskets that are more subject to leaking)
- I replaced the the balsa core in about twenty square feet of my deck over the years with an epoxy barrier surrounding each tile. 'never had to redo any of this work.
- The mast is well stepped; however the base plate and retaining ring is steel and this would need attention. On a '74 boat this has been already done or the corrosion is likely severe.
- I replaced my standing rigging three times during my ownership and just one of the robust chain plates. My chain plates were exterior and easily inspected.
- I did not use the roller reefing system on my boom. 'never liked it,-'never made a good sail shape when reefed, 'didn't miss it!
- The original rudder is made from port and starboard halves that are sealed together. These rudders eventually failed on both of my Morgans after water intrusion through fine cracks between these halves. The prevention of this problem is well fixed with a fiberglass tabbing applied on this seam. This is a critical inspection and correction.
- I had no more than a dozen total blisters on my hull over the years, but I've heard of those with more.
- If it has not been done, deck fittings will require solid bases without fasteners penetrating the balsa deck core.
- My 41 had a steel plate athwartship and just forward of the engine bed that will may some troublesome corrosion and a difficult replacement.
- The length of the shaft from the coupling to the cutlass bearing is fairly long and has a supportive carrier bearing. This may be worn, noisy and maybe in need of replacing.

As to the sailing like a pig comment, - 'sure I'll agree, 'especially true as I came to my Out Islands after a fin keeled Sparkman & Stevens; however, it is a truck and not a feather-duster. Mine took me many, many thousands of miles.

[Cheechako]

Looks clean. Those are pretty solid and basic boats. SO mainly the usual big ticket items for any boat need checked. Seems in boom furling could be changed to standard mainsail reefing fairly easy....still has the mast track right??
-Tanks
-Blisters
-engine
-rudder, I swear at least 50% of all boats out there have water in them.
-sail condition
etc

[Hudson Force]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

.................
....................
Seems in boom furling could be changed to standard mainsail reefing fairly easy....still has the mast track right??

-Tanks
..................
I swear at least 50% of all boats out there have water in them.

-sail condition

I'll address some of these important thoughts from Cheechako.
I think he's right about the reefing option. This was not an issue with my ketch. My "lazy" cruising plan for reefing was to drop the main for the "first reef" 'we had a good balance with the working jib and mizzen with winds over 25 kts. I can't speak for the Morgan sloop rig, but we always sailed best at 15 to 20 kts with everything up and just put things away for the short squalls. We didn't sail in real heavy weather.

Tanks! I didn't mention that I had changed my steel tanks to aluminum when I took out the old Westerbeke and put in a Yanmar 4jh3e. I also slipped a bladder inside one of my polypropylene water tanks.

I had all my sails replaced at different times and a great cruising chute deal from Bacon & Associates in Annapolis. I do consider sails as "consumables", but I did get some good years out of them.

Having some water in the bilge is not uncommon and even the expected standard for many. The Morgan OI series typically had the anchor locker drain into the bilge as well as the bilge as a shower sump and the ice box drain. I also had a few ounces of the bilge pump effluent fall back after a pump cycle. I never had my boat on the hard in a freeze or in any environment where some location of water intrusion, even in pipes or hoses, would freeze. That does sound risky to us low latitude cruisers.

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by Hudson Force

I'll address some of these important thoughts from Cheechako.
I think he's right about the reefing option. This was not an issue with my ketch. My "lazy" cruising plan for reefing was to drop the main for the "first reef" 'we had a good balance with the working jib and mizzen with winds over 25 kts. I can't speak for the Morgan sloop rig, but we always sailed best at 15 to 20 kts with everything up and just put things away for the short squalls. We didn't sail in real heavy weather.

Tanks! I didn't mention that I had changed my steel tanks to aluminum when I took out the old Westerbeke and put in a Yanmar 4jh3e. I also slipped a bladder inside one of my polypropylene water tanks.

I had all my sails replaced at different times and a great cruising chute deal from Bacon & Associates in Annapolis. I do consider sails as "consumables", but I did get some good years out of them.

Having some water in the bilge is not uncommon and even the expected standard for many. The Morgan OI series typically had the anchor locker drain into the bilge as well as the bilge as a shower sump and the ice box drain. I also had a few ounces of the bilge pump effluent fall back after a pump cycle. I never had my boat on the hard in a freeze or in any environment where some location of water intrusion, even in pipes or hoses, would freeze. That does sound risky to us low latitude cruisers.

I should have said "I swear at least 50% of boats have water "IN THE RUDDER" Was talking about the rudder...