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09-01-2019, 21:57
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#76
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Marine Service Provider
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Port Credit, Ontario or Bahamas
Boat: Benford 38 Fantail Cruiser
Posts: 7,061
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Re: Ventilation of Battery Compartment
One of my favourite battery pictures.
Eight 6vdc wet cells, One group 27 12vdc wet cells and a battery charger with no positive terminal protection and no fuses in an unventilated compartment within the accomodation spaces. The client was not pleased with my survey report on this installation
Darwin was clearly wrong otherwise this kind of stupidity would be extinct by now.
__________________
If you're not laughing, you're not doin' it right.
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10-01-2019, 04:16
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#77
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Houston
Boat: ‘01 Catana 401
Posts: 9,626
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Re: Ventilation of Battery Compartment
Quote:
Originally Posted by boatpoker
One of my favourite battery pictures.
Eight 6vdc wet cells, One group 27 12vdc wet cells and a battery charger with no positive terminal protection and no fuses in an unventilated compartment within the accomodation spaces. The client was not pleased with my survey report on this installation
Darwin was clearly wrong otherwise this kind of stupidity would be extinct by now.
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In your previous post you said an un-gasketed hatch lid would qualify. I see no gasket, and I surmise that hydrogen would find its way out of the boat from this installation. Seeing as the battery terminals are beneath wood (a fairly non Conductive material) I would think them protected. I would like to see fuses on the terminals though.
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10-01-2019, 05:33
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#78
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Marine Service Provider
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Port Credit, Ontario or Bahamas
Boat: Benford 38 Fantail Cruiser
Posts: 7,061
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Re: Ventilation of Battery Compartment
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sailmonkey
In your previous post you said an un-gasketed hatch lid would qualify. I see no gasket, and I surmise that hydrogen would find its way out of the boat from this installation. Seeing as the battery terminals are beneath wood (a fairly non Conductive material) I would think them protected. I would like to see fuses on the terminals though.
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Thinds I forgot to mention in the other post. Charger is not ignotion protected, hydrogen is easly ignited. The batteries are not in acid resisteant containers, sulfuric acid in that quantity runnig around a bilge is unthinkable.
Most ungasketed cockpit hatch lids (which was the topic) are fairly loose and the hydrogen would vent outside and one rarely sees more than two batteries in there. This very heavy wooden hatch would not be nearly as porous. Yes the hydrogen would escape eventually but thats a very tight space and escaping into an accomodation space will suffocate the crew.
Hydrogen flowing over the non-ignition protected battery charger to get out of the compartment - scary. Even if it was an ignition protected charger, given the corrosive nature of hydrogen it wouldn't IP be for long.
ABYC prohibits chargers being directly over batteries for this reason. Even tho' this charger is not "directly" over the batteries I don't think ABYC envisioned anything like this.
Somewhere around 2000MCA is a hell of a lot of amps, one bad cell could cause a meltdown and the crew would suffocate from the hydrogen.
PS. Fuses are not only a good idea. It is absolutely insane and (contrary to ABYC) not to have them.
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If you're not laughing, you're not doin' it right.
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10-01-2019, 12:06
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#79
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cruiser
Join Date: Jan 2017
Boat: Retired from CF
Posts: 13,317
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Re: Ventilation of Battery Compartment
Quote:
Originally Posted by coopec43
Would a gas detector designed for LPG pick up the "offgassing"?
I have a bilge blower in the same "compartment" as the batteries. Would it pay to have the bilge blower (and engine room blower) going when the motor is running and charging batteries?
Clive
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In high enough concentrations yes likely some do.
The sulphur smell will tip you off long before then though.
This danger danger factor is often way overstated. Just don't seal the batt box off, don't put sparky things in there, have some venting going on, no worries.
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10-01-2019, 12:17
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#80
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Marine Service Provider
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Port Credit, Ontario or Bahamas
Boat: Benford 38 Fantail Cruiser
Posts: 7,061
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Re: Ventilation of Battery Compartment
Quote:
Originally Posted by john61ct
This danger danger factor is often way overstated. Just don't seal the batt box off, don't put sparky things in there, have some venting going on, no worries.
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Agreed, most engine rooms have sufficient natural ventilation for hydrogen to escape.
The most common issues I see in engine compartments are lack of battery boxes to trap spilled acid, lack of means of securing batteries, lack of fuse protection, lack of positive terminal protection, Use of wing nuts to secure conductors and mounting inverters or battery chargers over batteries.
Photo Album of Electrical Nightmares on Boats
__________________
If you're not laughing, you're not doin' it right.
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10-01-2019, 17:57
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#81
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cruiser
Join Date: Jan 2017
Boat: Retired from CF
Posts: 13,317
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Re: Ventilation of Battery Compartment
Yes, all things not to do. For big banks, I'd also add installing a bank isolating switch for servicing, and easy to get to quickly for emergencies, cutoff point as close to the fuse as possible. With AFD (properly wired) if that's the bank where the alt output's been hard-wired
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10-01-2019, 18:45
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#82
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Maryland
Boat: 1985 Ericson 32-3
Posts: 315
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Re: Ventilation of Battery Compartment
Here's a pair sitting loose in the bilge beneath the cockpit of a Hunter 32 Vision. Unrestrained, no positive terminal coverings, located where stored sailbags and anything else will sit on them, airspace shared by the engine...
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10-01-2019, 18:56
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#83
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Marine Service Provider
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Port Credit, Ontario or Bahamas
Boat: Benford 38 Fantail Cruiser
Posts: 7,061
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Re: Ventilation of Battery Compartment
Quote:
Originally Posted by Checkswrecks
Here's a pair sitting loose in the bilge beneath the cockpit of a Hunter 32 Vision. Unrestrained, no positive terminal coverings, located where stored sailbags and anything else will sit on them, airspace shared by the engine...
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Wing nuts, no fuse and no means of securement ..... pretty typical stuff.
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If you're not laughing, you're not doin' it right.
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10-01-2019, 21:11
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#84
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: On the boat, somewhere in Australia.
Boat: Swanson 42 & Kelly Peterson 44
Posts: 9,127
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Re: Ventilation of Battery Compartment
Quote:
Originally Posted by boatpoker
Wing nuts, no fuse and no means of securement ..... pretty typical stuff.
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Just curious, what is the logic against wing nuts? Is it that something can knock them and cause them to come undone?
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Refitting… again.
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11-01-2019, 00:15
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#85
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Australia
Boat: BUILT!!! Roberts Mauritius 43ft
Posts: 3,604
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Re: Ventilation of Battery Compartment
Quote:
Originally Posted by john61ct
In high enough concentrations yes likely some do.
The sulphur smell will tip you off long before then though.
This danger danger factor is often way overstated. Just don't seal the batt box off, don't put sparky things in there, have some venting going on, no worries.
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I'll try again: I just lost the lot!
Well I don't know whether I have sufficient ventilation. My batteries are under the floor-boards (directly under the companionway steps)
I know the bilge pump and the bilge blower are not "sparky" but I'll have to check the water pump. If the LPG gas stove was going to leak gas I would think it would end up in this bilge section.
I have not used battery boxes as (rightly or wrongly) I read they were a thing of the past with the advent of AGM batteries.
Here is a couple of photos. I have on order battery terminal boots, bus bar boxes and circuit breaker covers)
Clive
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11-01-2019, 00:35
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#86
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Seattle
Boat: Cal 40 (sold). Still have a Hobie 20
Posts: 2,944
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Re: Ventilation of Battery Compartment
Quote:
Originally Posted by coopec43
I'll try again: I just lost the lot!
Well I don't know whether I have sufficient ventilation. My batteries are under the floor-boards (directly under the companionway steps)
I know the bilge pump and the bilge blower are not "sparky" but I'll have to check the water pump. If the LPG gas stove was going to leak gas I would think it would end up in this bilge section.
I have not used battery boxes as (rightly or wrongly) I read they were a thing of the past with the advent of AGM batteries.
Here is a couple of photos. I have on order battery terminal boots, bus bar boxes and circuit breaker covers)
Clive
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ABYC thinks you do need boxes, an article explaining their reasoning -
Battery installations - Ocean Navigator - March/April 2018
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11-01-2019, 00:41
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#87
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Australia
Boat: BUILT!!! Roberts Mauritius 43ft
Posts: 3,604
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Re: Ventilation of Battery Compartment
Quote:
Originally Posted by cal40john
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Thanks Cal. I promise I will read the whole article.
But the first thing I noticed was
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11-01-2019, 01:01
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#88
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Seattle
Boat: Cal 40 (sold). Still have a Hobie 20
Posts: 2,944
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Re: Ventilation of Battery Compartment
Quote:
Originally Posted by coopec43
Thanks Cal. I promise I will read the whole article.
But the first thing I noticed was
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Read the second half of the paragraph you highlighted, that is their reasoning for boxes and vents.
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11-01-2019, 10:41
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#89
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cruiser
Join Date: Jan 2017
Boat: Retired from CF
Posts: 13,317
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Re: Ventilation of Battery Compartment
Quote:
Originally Posted by coopec43
Well I don't know whether I have sufficient ventilation. My batteries are under the floor-boards (directly under the companionway steps
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Just for batt leakage from AGM, very little is required.
Def need a tray and of course to secure them.
> If the LPG gas stove was going to leak gas I would think it would end up in this bilge section.
Now **there** danger danger is real. Active ventilation called for, and/or strict compliance with an established well thought out inspection protocol like ABYC.
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11-01-2019, 10:55
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#90
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Marine Service Provider
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Port Credit, Ontario or Bahamas
Boat: Benford 38 Fantail Cruiser
Posts: 7,061
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Re: Ventilation of Battery Compartment
Quote:
Originally Posted by coopec43
Thanks Cal. I promise I will read the whole article.
But the first thing I noticed was
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Where do you think the acid and gas went from this AGM ?
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