Cruisers Forum
 


Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on Cruisers Forums. Advertise Here
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 09-01-2019, 21:57   #76
Marine Service Provider
 
boatpoker's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Port Credit, Ontario or Bahamas
Boat: Benford 38 Fantail Cruiser
Posts: 7,061
Re: Ventilation of Battery Compartment

One of my favourite battery pictures.

Eight 6vdc wet cells, One group 27 12vdc wet cells and a battery charger with no positive terminal protection and no fuses in an unventilated compartment within the accomodation spaces. The client was not pleased with my survey report on this installation

Darwin was clearly wrong otherwise this kind of stupidity would be extinct by now.
__________________
If you're not laughing, you're not doin' it right.
boatpoker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2019, 04:16   #77
Registered User
 
Sailmonkey's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Houston
Boat: ‘01 Catana 401
Posts: 9,626
Re: Ventilation of Battery Compartment

Quote:
Originally Posted by boatpoker View Post
One of my favourite battery pictures.



Eight 6vdc wet cells, One group 27 12vdc wet cells and a battery charger with no positive terminal protection and no fuses in an unventilated compartment within the accomodation spaces. The client was not pleased with my survey report on this installation



Darwin was clearly wrong otherwise this kind of stupidity would be extinct by now.


In your previous post you said an un-gasketed hatch lid would qualify. I see no gasket, and I surmise that hydrogen would find its way out of the boat from this installation. Seeing as the battery terminals are beneath wood (a fairly non Conductive material) I would think them protected. I would like to see fuses on the terminals though.
Sailmonkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2019, 05:33   #78
Marine Service Provider
 
boatpoker's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Port Credit, Ontario or Bahamas
Boat: Benford 38 Fantail Cruiser
Posts: 7,061
Re: Ventilation of Battery Compartment

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sailmonkey View Post
In your previous post you said an un-gasketed hatch lid would qualify. I see no gasket, and I surmise that hydrogen would find its way out of the boat from this installation. Seeing as the battery terminals are beneath wood (a fairly non Conductive material) I would think them protected. I would like to see fuses on the terminals though.
Thinds I forgot to mention in the other post. Charger is not ignotion protected, hydrogen is easly ignited. The batteries are not in acid resisteant containers, sulfuric acid in that quantity runnig around a bilge is unthinkable.

Most ungasketed cockpit hatch lids (which was the topic) are fairly loose and the hydrogen would vent outside and one rarely sees more than two batteries in there. This very heavy wooden hatch would not be nearly as porous. Yes the hydrogen would escape eventually but thats a very tight space and escaping into an accomodation space will suffocate the crew.

Hydrogen flowing over the non-ignition protected battery charger to get out of the compartment - scary. Even if it was an ignition protected charger, given the corrosive nature of hydrogen it wouldn't IP be for long.

ABYC prohibits chargers being directly over batteries for this reason. Even tho' this charger is not "directly" over the batteries I don't think ABYC envisioned anything like this.

Somewhere around 2000MCA is a hell of a lot of amps, one bad cell could cause a meltdown and the crew would suffocate from the hydrogen.

PS. Fuses are not only a good idea. It is absolutely insane and (contrary to ABYC) not to have them.
__________________
If you're not laughing, you're not doin' it right.
boatpoker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2019, 12:06   #79
cruiser

Join Date: Jan 2017
Boat: Retired from CF
Posts: 13,317
Re: Ventilation of Battery Compartment

Quote:
Originally Posted by coopec43 View Post
Would a gas detector designed for LPG pick up the "offgassing"?

I have a bilge blower in the same "compartment" as the batteries. Would it pay to have the bilge blower (and engine room blower) going when the motor is running and charging batteries?


Clive
In high enough concentrations yes likely some do.

The sulphur smell will tip you off long before then though.

This danger danger factor is often way overstated. Just don't seal the batt box off, don't put sparky things in there, have some venting going on, no worries.
john61ct is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2019, 12:17   #80
Marine Service Provider
 
boatpoker's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Port Credit, Ontario or Bahamas
Boat: Benford 38 Fantail Cruiser
Posts: 7,061
Re: Ventilation of Battery Compartment

Quote:
Originally Posted by john61ct View Post

This danger danger factor is often way overstated. Just don't seal the batt box off, don't put sparky things in there, have some venting going on, no worries.
Agreed, most engine rooms have sufficient natural ventilation for hydrogen to escape.

The most common issues I see in engine compartments are lack of battery boxes to trap spilled acid, lack of means of securing batteries, lack of fuse protection, lack of positive terminal protection, Use of wing nuts to secure conductors and mounting inverters or battery chargers over batteries.

Photo Album of Electrical Nightmares on Boats
__________________
If you're not laughing, you're not doin' it right.
boatpoker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2019, 17:57   #81
cruiser

Join Date: Jan 2017
Boat: Retired from CF
Posts: 13,317
Re: Ventilation of Battery Compartment

Yes, all things not to do. For big banks, I'd also add installing a bank isolating switch for servicing, and easy to get to quickly for emergencies, cutoff point as close to the fuse as possible. With AFD (properly wired) if that's the bank where the alt output's been hard-wired
john61ct is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2019, 18:45   #82
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Maryland
Boat: 1985 Ericson 32-3
Posts: 315
Re: Ventilation of Battery Compartment

Here's a pair sitting loose in the bilge beneath the cockpit of a Hunter 32 Vision. Unrestrained, no positive terminal coverings, located where stored sailbags and anything else will sit on them, airspace shared by the engine...
Checkswrecks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2019, 18:56   #83
Marine Service Provider
 
boatpoker's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Port Credit, Ontario or Bahamas
Boat: Benford 38 Fantail Cruiser
Posts: 7,061
Re: Ventilation of Battery Compartment

Quote:
Originally Posted by Checkswrecks View Post
Here's a pair sitting loose in the bilge beneath the cockpit of a Hunter 32 Vision. Unrestrained, no positive terminal coverings, located where stored sailbags and anything else will sit on them, airspace shared by the engine...
Wing nuts, no fuse and no means of securement ..... pretty typical stuff.
__________________
If you're not laughing, you're not doin' it right.
boatpoker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2019, 21:11   #84
Registered User
 
GILow's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: On the boat, somewhere in Australia.
Boat: Swanson 42 & Kelly Peterson 44
Posts: 9,127
Re: Ventilation of Battery Compartment

Quote:
Originally Posted by boatpoker View Post
Wing nuts, no fuse and no means of securement ..... pretty typical stuff.


Just curious, what is the logic against wing nuts? Is it that something can knock them and cause them to come undone?
__________________
Refitting… again.
GILow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2019, 00:15   #85
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Australia
Boat: BUILT!!! Roberts Mauritius 43ft
Posts: 3,604
Re: Ventilation of Battery Compartment

Quote:
Originally Posted by john61ct View Post
In high enough concentrations yes likely some do.

The sulphur smell will tip you off long before then though.

This danger danger factor is often way overstated. Just don't seal the batt box off, don't put sparky things in there, have some venting going on, no worries.

I'll try again: I just lost the lot!

Well I don't know whether I have sufficient ventilation. My batteries are under the floor-boards (directly under the companionway steps)

I know the bilge pump and the bilge blower are not "sparky" but I'll have to check the water pump. If the LPG gas stove was going to leak gas I would think it would end up in this bilge section.

I have not used battery boxes as (rightly or wrongly) I read they were a thing of the past with the advent of AGM batteries.

Here is a couple of photos. I have on order battery terminal boots, bus bar boxes and circuit breaker covers)


Clive
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Temp Electrical.JPG
Views:	97
Size:	173.3 KB
ID:	183644   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_1566.jpg
Views:	90
Size:	416.0 KB
ID:	183645  

coopec43 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2019, 00:35   #86
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Seattle
Boat: Cal 40 (sold). Still have a Hobie 20
Posts: 2,944
Images: 7
Re: Ventilation of Battery Compartment

Quote:
Originally Posted by coopec43 View Post
I'll try again: I just lost the lot!

Well I don't know whether I have sufficient ventilation. My batteries are under the floor-boards (directly under the companionway steps)

I know the bilge pump and the bilge blower are not "sparky" but I'll have to check the water pump. If the LPG gas stove was going to leak gas I would think it would end up in this bilge section.

I have not used battery boxes as (rightly or wrongly) I read they were a thing of the past with the advent of AGM batteries.

Here is a couple of photos. I have on order battery terminal boots, bus bar boxes and circuit breaker covers)


Clive
ABYC thinks you do need boxes, an article explaining their reasoning -
Battery installations - Ocean Navigator - March/April 2018
cal40john is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2019, 00:41   #87
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Australia
Boat: BUILT!!! Roberts Mauritius 43ft
Posts: 3,604
Re: Ventilation of Battery Compartment

Quote:
Originally Posted by cal40john View Post
ABYC thinks you do nned boxes, an article explaining their reasoning -
Battery installations - Ocean Navigator - March/April 2018
Thanks Cal. I promise I will read the whole article.

But the first thing I noticed was
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Temp batteries.JPG
Views:	100
Size:	135.4 KB
ID:	183646  
coopec43 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2019, 01:01   #88
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Seattle
Boat: Cal 40 (sold). Still have a Hobie 20
Posts: 2,944
Images: 7
Re: Ventilation of Battery Compartment

Quote:
Originally Posted by coopec43 View Post
Thanks Cal. I promise I will read the whole article.

But the first thing I noticed was
Read the second half of the paragraph you highlighted, that is their reasoning for boxes and vents.
cal40john is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2019, 10:41   #89
cruiser

Join Date: Jan 2017
Boat: Retired from CF
Posts: 13,317
Re: Ventilation of Battery Compartment

Quote:
Originally Posted by coopec43 View Post
Well I don't know whether I have sufficient ventilation. My batteries are under the floor-boards (directly under the companionway steps
Just for batt leakage from AGM, very little is required.

Def need a tray and of course to secure them.

> If the LPG gas stove was going to leak gas I would think it would end up in this bilge section.
Now **there** danger danger is real. Active ventilation called for, and/or strict compliance with an established well thought out inspection protocol like ABYC.
john61ct is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2019, 10:55   #90
Marine Service Provider
 
boatpoker's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Port Credit, Ontario or Bahamas
Boat: Benford 38 Fantail Cruiser
Posts: 7,061
Re: Ventilation of Battery Compartment

Quote:
Originally Posted by coopec43 View Post
Thanks Cal. I promise I will read the whole article.

But the first thing I noticed was
Where do you think the acid and gas went from this AGM ?
__________________
If you're not laughing, you're not doin' it right.
boatpoker is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
battery, ericson, flooded cell, ventilation, battery box

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Engine Compartment Insulation Immanuel Construction, Maintenance & Refit 13 27-10-2009 16:16
Engine ventilation PBzeer Engines and Propulsion Systems 5 03-03-2007 14:37
Multihull Ventilation? gbanker Multihull Sailboats 9 21-12-2006 15:25
Battery Ventilation when ‘Fast’ Charging GordMay Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 20 05-04-2006 12:27
Engine Compartment Insulation Longhair Engines and Propulsion Systems 8 29-03-2006 05:46

Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:00.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.