Baja Bash / Hunter 45 Center Cockpit

[Zzmeyer]

The Hunter is a death trap and you should not attempt it. Just Kidding. I've done the Haha three times. Twice on a 50 foot Beneteau and once on a 42 Jeanneau. I've raced often against Hunters and find them just a touch faster for their rating than the others. The Haha is a gentle downwind sail. For first timers maybe more wind than you are used to but 20 knots off the wind is 15 knots apparent. As a Southern Californian you may not be familiar with anchoring. Get a decent size modern anchor with all chain. The trick is surviving the Baja Bash - the trip back. You will, no matter how long you wait for a weather window, be motoring into headwinds and head seas. Yeh, they bash Hunters, but Beneteaus are a total death trap.

[Augi]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

To answer the OP’s questions:

1.Was there a big difference in comfort?

Answer: Yes absolutely, there’s a BIG difference in comfort between an Oyster and a Hunter. Does it even matter doing what you plan to do? Not really, if you plan your passage well regarding the weather.

2.Was the Hunter worse for the wear versus the "true blue water boat"?

Answer: Again, it would depend on the weather. If the northern leg is done carefully and mindful of the weather... the Hunter should fair well and be no worse for wear. I personally would plan to motor as much as possible during calm seas rather than bashing to windward trying to do it in one shot. Take your time and make sure everything in the saloon is secured because things on our Hunter tended to get tossed around.

3.Was the crew on the Hunter worse for the wear than the true " blue water boat".

Answer: If the passage is planned well and you’re not in a hurry or sailing to a set schedule, the crew should find the passage enjoyable on the Hunter 450. I’d be looking to do the same on an Oyster, easy, no hurry and motoring during the calm with no unnecessary bashing to windward if avoidable. If windy weather and larger swells are unavoidable, the Oyster crew would be more comfortable.

Note: If I still had a Hunter 450 located in Southern California, I would have no hesitation doing the voyage the OP plans on doing with the Hunter. Of course I need to qualify my answer by mentioning that I now have ten years of cruising experience, watching the weather and selecting appropriate anchorages under my belt. The OP hasn’t mentioned his.

I sincerely hope you find my posts on this subject more helpful than some of the other more derogatory posts.

Good luck with your choice!

Very helpful. Thanks

[Augi]

Originally Posted by Rogue Brit

Pish Tosh, my Hunter 466 is a true blue water boat that's as good as any. We've gone 60,000 miles on four continents in 8 years. Also, we had the experience of sailing north at night past the Baha HaHa flotilla as they headed south. They were busy using Channel 16 to operate an inter-boat Karaoke session. First time for me.

By any chance does your Hunter 466 have a black hull and is in Rio Dulce? I saw such a boat last Thursday when visiting a friend getting is boat repairs done.

[Augi]

Originally Posted by Zzmeyer

The Hunter is a death trap and you should not attempt it. Just Kidding. I've done the Haha three times. Twice on a 50 foot Beneteau and once on a 42 Jeanneau. I've raced often against Hunters and find them just a touch faster for their rating than the others. The Haha is a gentle downwind sail. For first timers maybe more wind than you are used to but 20 knots off the wind is 15 knots apparent. As a Southern Californian you may not be familiar with anchoring. Get a decent size modern anchor with all chain. The trick is surviving the Baja Bash - the trip back. You will, no matter how long you wait for a weather window, be motoring into headwinds and head seas. Yeh, they bash Hunters, but Beneteaus are a total death trap.

Thanks for that!

My wife and live at 7000 ft elevation near Antigua Guatemala. I have lived a lot of places but never SoCal.

I have done some bare boat charters with friends from a few places: Marina Del Rey Ca, Le Marin Martinique, Split Croatia, Red Hook St Thomas, Tortola, BVI, Plama Mallorca, Spain.

All of the above is as crew. I just recently got certified to bare boat charter.

My cousin and I chartered a Pogo 30 from Le Marin last January. We had 20-30 knot winds the entire week and, a couple of brief periods of 40 knot winds in squalls. The Pogo 30 is a very tender boat(so it was great learning for a newbie), and is huge fun and fast except going to weather. Going to weather you think you are going to lose your fillings with it0s wide flat bottom and is under 3 tons. This coming January we are chartering a Pogo 36, adding two more crew and going 1 way Le Marin to Guadeloupe.

[Augi]

Originally Posted by sailduggar

I do not meet all of your restrictions, but have sailed from Panama up to the Sea of Cortez in a 1995Hunter 42. It was comfortable, but we did not sail if the winds were over about 15-20 knots. The Pacific swells make many of the anchorages uncomfortable, but that would be true for any boat. We carried 70 gallons of fuel and had no problems even though we did motor frequently. Although not a blue water boat we also sailed to Bermuda from Norfolk and have bashed into several passages with double reefed main and only an inner forestay sail up front. However, would not want to be out in a gale in any of the boats I have sailed.

very helpful. Thanks

[Ericson38]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Entered in what?

Jim

The 2019 Baha.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by Ericson38

The 2019 Baha.

OK, but what has this to do with the OP's query? The slide downwind that is the HaHa has nothing to do with the return trip's difficulties.

Chalk and cheese...

Jim

[Augi]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

OK, but what has this to do with the OP's query? The slide downwind that is the HaHa has nothing to do with the return trip's difficulties.

Chalk and cheese...

Jim

Except if most of the the boats return to San Diego after the HaHa by sea. Probably most do Maybe the ride would be better in some other type boats vs. in a Catalina or Hunter. But this indicates a lot of similar type boats as the boat I inquired about are doing the trip north.

[thesuperwonder]

We bashed back 2 times in our Beneteau 473. The first time we had to be back for a daughter’s wedding. Big mistake. Never sail on a schedule. I walked crooked for weeks. Said to my husband I would NEVER do it again. Second time we watched the weather, pulled into Turtle Bay, was much easier. Slow but steady. Third time we hired a captain😏. Took him 2 weeks! (He also was on a schedule....)

[Augi]

Originally Posted by thesuperwonder

We bashed back 2 times in our Beneteau 473. The first time we had to be back for a daughter’s wedding. Big mistake. Never sail on a schedule. I walked crooked for weeks. Said to my husband I would NEVER do it again. Second time we watched the weather, pulled into Turtle Bay, was much easier. Slow but steady. Third time we hired a captain😏. Took him 2 weeks! (He also was on a schedule....)

Great feedback! Thanks

A lot of excellent info and feedback from the posts.

Sounds like the key points are in general(ignoring the model/capability of specific boats) and general preparedness of boat, fuel, provisions:

1. Don't be on a schedule so you can wait for good weather windows. Allow up to four weeks to maximize enjoyment. Allow time to recover from previous leg.

2. Conditions tend to be better at night.

3. Be ready for a bumpy not so comfortable ride.

4. You can always hire a captain to move the boat for you.

[Fbfisher]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

OK, but what has this to do with the OP's query? The slide downwind that is the HaHa has nothing to do with the return trip's difficulties.

Chalk and cheese...

Jim

Apologies for being a bit off topic, but Jim’s post reminded me of my participation in the HaHa orientation seminar at the Pacific Sailboat Show many years ago. I recall being surprised that a significant number of the participant boats do not do the “bash” at all, they continue south and return via the South Pacific(?). I wonder if that’s still the case.

[SV THIRD DAY]

The Reason the Baja Bash is a Bash is:
a) people are on a schedule
b) people are on a Schedule
and
C) people are on a schedule.

Remove A, B and C and you can motor up on flat seas in a MacGregor 26.
Be on a Schedule and it will suck on any Blue Water Boat.

So once again, it's not the Boat...it's the Crew and the Crew's/Captains Plan (or lack of it).

Don't make the MISTAKE of starting the trip too early.
The best months for the trip up Baja are June/July/August.

[CapitanKen]

I have done the Baja Bash over twenty times. Mostly in a Stevens 47 but also in a Hunter 42 once, along with a passage on a Catalina 36 and once on a Defever 42 Power boat.



The heavier sailboat and power boat were far more comfortable and faster. The little Catalina 36 often could not go forward using both sail and power and the Hunter 42 also had to shelter for days when the wind was on the nose.


The damage to the boat and my body were significant in the lighter less powerful boats. I only did the passge in the Hunter 42 as a favor to a true friend but would not do it again.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by Augi

Yes. I have a specific use as described in my post. I plan to move the boat each year, back and forth between Channels Islands Harbor(Oxnard, Ca) and San Carlos Nuevo Guaymas Sonora Mexico.

I am trying to be very specific to avoid the rehash of the production boat vs. "true blue water" boat discussion. That discussion can be found all over the internet and on this site.


An excellent general discussion of the topic of production boats versus "true blue water" boats or what are the limits of production boats can be found here:

https://www.sailnet.com/forums/cruis...-limits-5.html

Augi, I know that this response is not what you are asking for in your original post, however I think what I have to say should be considered by yourself.

The trip, either way, from Oxnard to San Carlos, is a long haul especially the return trip up the Baja coast. It is not called the "bash" for nothing. Even the trip to or from San Carlos to Cabo is a rather long one. So to plan on doing it repeatedly, in any kind of cruising boat, is quite ambitious, and in my opinion, unrealistic. You are going to spend many days, even weeks, under power, often in uncomfortable conditions, putting wear and tear on all aspects of your vessel. Very few people do this more than once or twice.

[captainwoody]

Originally Posted by thesuperwonder

Third time we hired a captain😏. Took him 2 weeks! (He also was on a schedule....)

Congrats on doing the bash twice, it's a lot of bumpy, even in good conditions. I'll point out that no legit delivery captain could take two weeks for this delivery unless they are stopping to fish and party every night at your expense.
We've done this delivery a dozen times on cats and monos. Even with pulling in for the worst parts of a storm, it's a week max. We've done it in under 3 (47' cat).
Regarding the Hunter over heavy boat question, yep, it's a little more dangerous cuz the Hunter is more likely to break up in a storm or if it hits debris or another boat. Lightening is more likely to blow a thruhull out of a thinner hull. Bulkheads are more likely to crack (I've seen it). Stock Hunter rigging is not designed for a long bash like this. The no backstay models were an especially bad design for offshore. Catalina lost rudders in two separate occasions - similar lite design.
When delivering lighter boats we don't operate at full speed and do en route inspections on high load points.
If you have time, the bash is easy. Unless a system is going through, leave as it calms (evening usually) and pull in before the daily blow (late morning usually). There are beautiful anchorages all the way out, somehow spaced perfectly about every 100 miles. Put the main up reefed a bit, crack off the wind until it barely fills and tilts the boat a bit, motorsail comfortably and fast. There are a lot of other tips.