Yet another tragic loss?

[Jim Cate]

Marco, I must be pretty dense, but i can't understand what those pix show.. Maybe self explaining to some, but not me! Can you add some info to help me, please?

Jim

[marcofailla]

the refrain is that the keel is NOT the cause of the disaster. said that...

it simply shows the structural engineering of the keel to me

keel bolts stands for bolts attaching the fin to the boat keel and in those pics is shown just one of many types of keel, a structure made from "thin" frp skin glued over an internal frp framing

I'm building a traditional herreshoff 28' yawl and the ballast is attached with more bolts to a 2 inches solid mohogany 28' long keel in a much wider foot print with two or three frames passed trough by the keel bolts.
if ever the ballast would be torn out in this boat, it will destroy the entire boat structure, i have no doubt about

i sail a farr designed cookson built 40' yacht. it has a fragile sandwich hull but it has a monolythic kevlar keel large about two feet over the entire length of the hull, one inch thick, structurally fiberglassed to a dense internal framing. I can't tell you how hard has been to remove one of those racing trough hull flush fittings for depth sounder. it has also a much larger keel footprint than the keel profile. it is a sheet of steel welded to the fin structure large almost two feet and long as the fin profile itself

overengineering, underengineering, just right engineering?
i can't say nothing more about that, im not an engineer, except than that i appreciate much, much more herreshoff structural design

[marcofailla]

Originally Posted by marcofailla

it has a monolythic kevlar keel large about two feet over the entire length of the hull

errata corrige:
the keel is as large only in the fin area, after and before that is slimmer being approx 3/4 foot

[hpeer]

One wonders the keel loss contributed to the fatalities.

In the video I saw some guys trying to look under the over turned hull.

That gave me the idea that perhaps the deaths were caused by the hull overturning onto them.

Just a thought.

[double u]

wow, the keel ripped out a piece of fibreglass the size of it's own footprint....

[hoppy]

Originally Posted by hpeer

One wonders it it contributed to the fatalities.

In the video I saw some guys trying to look under the over turned hull.

That gave me the idea that perhaps the deaths were caused by the hull overturning onto them.

Just a thought.

No

These photos have been posted several times in the thread already...



The keel broke off and the the boat never rolled as the rig was intact. The rigging obviously collapsed later allowing the boat turn over fully. I would not be surprised if the keel breaking off may have prevented the boat from landing on the rocks upside down.

[hpeer]

Having a hard time imagining that.

Can you explains the mechanism you envision more?

[hoppy]

Originally Posted by hpeer

Having a hard time imagining that.

Can you explains the mechanism you envision more?

try harder....

Think of this Bavaria as a pole vaulter who's pole has snapped and for a boat that's keel does not snap off.

Regardless of whether the keel breaks off or not, the boat will be smashed to pieces and in either scenario the risk of death or injury is probably very high and down to a bit of luck.

I'm pretty sure no boat designer has ever considered the smashed sideways onto rocks in a big swell scenario into the design. They design the keels to survive forward groundings.

Time to get off the keel topic, it's not relevant

[hoppy]

From Sailing Anarchy

The Italian Coast Guard is now focusing on engine issues as the primary cause of the wreck. One source told us the on-deck crew was actually washed off the boat in a breaking wave that also flooded the boat and shut down the engine, and the only crew to make it out alive were those stuck inside the boat when she was thrown onto the rocks. We’re also told one sailor tried to rescue his girlfriend, whose foot was stuck between two rocks on the jetty…they both drowned.

[hpeer]

Well it does seem the whole keel discussion is not relevant to this case so I'll let it be.

It's a very sad tale. Not entirely sure what lessons are to be learned, perhaps more about operating procedures and storm tactics.

I was caught out in 30 knots a few weeks ago. I thought I had done my due dilligence but obviously missed something.

Fortunately we ended with a good story. Not always the case.

[hoppy]

Has anyone seen the wind conditions at the time?

The waves make it look like it's a northerly and looking at the chart it looks like it would be a very rough ride all the way into the channel entrance.

It definitely looks like staying at sea would be the safest decision.

[hpeer]

Interesting design. any idea which jetty they went up on?

[Jim Cate]

The Italian Coast Guard is now focusing on engine issues as the primary cause of the wreck. One source told us the on-deck crew was actually washed off the boat in a breaking wave that also flooded the boat and shut down the engine, and the only crew to make it out alive were those stuck inside the boat when she was thrown onto the rocks.

This sounds like the boat was downflooded when pooped, and this implies that the companionway was open. And if so, there is the lesson: don't be caught in rough weather without putting in the hatchboards and securing the hatch. Getting enough water below to shut down the engine is kinda hard to imagine... unless it is an engine that relies upon some electric device to run... computer perhaps, or an electric fuel pump. More info would be useful!

Jim

[hoppy]

Originally Posted by hpeer

Interesting design. any idea which jetty they went up on?

Based on what I see in the video, I'm guessing it was here https://www.google.com.au/maps/@44.0...!3m1!1e3?hl=en

[hpeer]

Thanks. Fascinating coast line. Dull as hell. But all those break waters!