Cruisers Forum
 


Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on Cruisers Forums. Advertise Here
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 25-10-2018, 05:00   #1
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Plettenberg Bay South Africa
Boat: Beneteau Oceanis 473- 2006
Posts: 108
Garth Gregory - Beneteau 473

I need some help - I have searched the various threads unsuccessfully - I need a clear sail plan for a Beneteau 473 ( built 2005 ) as I need to replace and order some new sails - I have had no help from Beneteau or Selden masts , which is very disappointing . As I understand it , there are 4 different options -
1 A standard mast height and keel depth , with a Lazybag System or an In mast furling System .

2. The optional taller mast version with the required slightly deeper keel - and again a Lazybag or In mast furling system

I need a sailplan ( diagram of dimensions ) - for the standard mast and Keel and the lazybag furling system .I would like to fit a cutter rig , so the stay and sail dimensions ( standard ) would also be of great help . I am having a trysail ( approx 10 % of main ) made to fit on either of the twin back stays , for use in heavy weather , anyone with that experience , I would love to hear from them .

Hope you can help - I live in South Africa and My boat is in Greece , so difficult
Regards Garth Gregory
GarthGregory is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-10-2018, 05:20   #2
Moderator
 
Pete7's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Solent, England
Boat: Moody 31
Posts: 18,423
Images: 22
Re: Garth Gregory

Garth,

I have moved your post to a more appropriate forum.

If you want the sails made properly I would have a sail maker visit and measure, though I appreciate you some distance from the yacht. If you measure or guess based on someone else's measurements and they don't fit it's your problem. Do masts differ even on the same model? oh yes.

A trysail is normally rigged from the mast rather than the backstays, not sure how the back stay could would work. Were are you thinking of going that needs a trysail? a deep 3rd or even 4th reef might be better.

Pete
Pete7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-10-2018, 12:48   #3
Moderator
 
Jim Cate's Avatar

Join Date: May 2008
Location: cruising SW Pacific
Boat: Jon Sayer 1-off 46 ft fract rig sloop strip plank in W Red Cedar
Posts: 21,155
Re: Garth Gregory - Beneteau 473

I agree with all of Pete's comments. Building sails, especially mainsails, without actual measurements of the specific boat often leads to ill-fitting sails. In my experience, it is a very bad idea to do so... especially when there are multiple rig options right from the builder.

And Pete is right: trysails are NOT rigged to the backstay, but to the mast, and usually to a separate track from the mainsail. Perhaps you are thinking of a riding sail... one that you set at anchor to help hold the boat's head into the wind.

I humbly suggest that you rethink your plans and organize a visit from a sailmaker. It may cost a bit more than ordering online from some mass producer (which is what it sounds like you have in mind), but your chances of success are far higher.

Jim
__________________
Jim and Ann s/v Insatiable II, lying Port Cygnet Tasmania once again.
Jim Cate is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 25-10-2018, 13:34   #4
Registered User
 
NYSail's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Long Island, New York
Boat: Beneteau 423 43 feet
Posts: 850
Re: Garth Gregory - Beneteau 473

I have a 2005 Beneteau 423 that I purchased 2 years ago. With it came an excellent manual that had all specs for the rig..... I am sure another 473 owner will chime in and may be able to send you those pages. Also my rig was provided by US Spars.... they have been extremely helpful with all questions I have and are very familiar with specs of rig as they still have all data on file. Finally Beneteau parts on line store has at least for my boat the specs for the rig..... I am looking to replacing all standing rigging soon and they sell it. However like was said, it is best to have a sailmaker go to the boat personally and take all measurements so that everything fits perfect.

Btw there is a Beneteau 423 group on yahoo groups that has a lot of 473 owners as members.

Good luck
Greg
NYSail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-10-2018, 02:02   #5
Moderator
 
Pete7's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Solent, England
Boat: Moody 31
Posts: 18,423
Images: 22
Re: Garth Gregory - Beneteau 473

Quote:
Originally Posted by NYSail View Post
Also my rig was provided by US Spars....
Ahh, exactly why the boat should be measured as Garths boat in Greece is likely to be a French supplied rig. If its ex charter then that could add more confusion if the charter firm spec'd something smaller for customers.

Pete
Pete7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-10-2018, 08:37   #6
Registered User
 
Peregrine1983's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 987
Re: Garth Gregory - Beneteau 473

FWIW...

We recently had a new main, mizzen, and lazy jack system with zip-up covers made by Mack in Florida for my Pearson 424 ketch. I supplied them with just a few measurements and some photos (I did have to climb the mast) and they did it all for us without ever seeing it in person. It all fits perfectly.

The Bene 473 is a fairly common cruiser. In fact there are probably a whole lot more 473's out there than Pearson 424's.

I understand there may be different variations on 473 rigs (there are a few variations on 424 rigs as well), but with a few basic measurements I'll bet a sail maker who has made 473 sails before can figure out what you have and just make them again.

Might be worth a call to Mack or one of the others.

Good luck.

Edit: Mack also shipped the sails 2000 miles to us at no additional charge. I imagine they would ship to Greece.
Peregrine1983 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-10-2018, 08:47   #7
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Boat in Greece
Boat: Lagoon 400
Posts: 1,430
Re: Garth Gregory - Beneteau 473

Quote:
Originally Posted by GarthGregory View Post
I need some help - I have searched the various threads unsuccessfully - I need a clear sail plan for a Beneteau 473 ( built 2005 ) as I need to replace and order some new sails - I have had no help from Beneteau or Selden masts , which is very disappointing . As I understand it , there are 4 different options -
1 A standard mast height and keel depth , with a Lazybag System or an In mast furling System .

2. The optional taller mast version with the required slightly deeper keel - and again a Lazybag or In mast furling system

I need a sailplan ( diagram of dimensions ) - for the standard mast and Keel and the lazybag furling system .I would like to fit a cutter rig , so the stay and sail dimensions ( standard ) would also be of great help . I am having a trysail ( approx 10 % of main ) made to fit on either of the twin back stays , for use in heavy weather , anyone with that experience , I would love to hear from them .

Hope you can help - I live in South Africa and My boat is in Greece , so difficult
Regards Garth Gregory
Most of 47.3 have a babystay (inner forestay) - you may use this stay for a storm jib.
At the stern, normally a 47.3 have twin backstays so it won't be normally possible to deploy a riding sail there.
I did not understand your idea of a trysail at the stern. Usually it will go on a second track on the mast.
__________________
Mark, S/Y Bat-Yam
meirriba is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-10-2018, 09:16   #8
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 2,007
Re: Garth Gregory - Beneteau 473

As has already been said, do NOT, NOT, NOT buy sails without either the sailmaker or yourself actually taking a tape measure to the rig. Measure! Don't trust the measurements of a sister ship. Don't trust the dock know-it-all, and for heavens sake don't trust the internet!

No matter how inconvenient it might be, if you do not measure the chances of getting everything to fit as they should are not great.

Not answering your question is likely the best thing Beneteau could have done for you if you were just going to turn those numbers around and send them to a sailmaker and have them start cutting.
billknny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-10-2018, 10:34   #9
Registered User

Join Date: May 2014
Location: So Cal
Boat: Beneteau 38 Nordlund 72, Marquess 55, Jenneau 49
Posts: 541
Re: Garth Gregory - Beneteau 473

Quote:
Originally Posted by meirriba View Post
Most of 47.3 have a babystay (inner forestay) - you may use this stay for a storm jib.
At the stern, normally a 47.3 have twin backstays so it won't be normally possible to deploy a riding sail there.
I did not understand your idea of a trysail at the stern. Usually it will go on a second track on the mast.



I was told by a Selden rep at a boat show that the inner forestay should not be used for a staysail. I never actually followed through but it sure would make it convenient if I could. Were did you get your info? Do you know of anyone who has done this succesfully?



I think maybe the original poster might have meant the trysail was on the mast between the backstays?
Valmika is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-10-2018, 10:40   #10
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: On a boat in Greece
Boat: Beneteau Oceanis 473
Posts: 38
Re: Garth Gregory - Beneteau 473

I believe the standard 473 mainsail with slab reefing came with 2 reefs. Our 473 had a 3rd reef put in which I would strongly recommend given the 473 is probablu overpowered compared with many other boats. We love the versatility of having the 3rd reef. If you wanted a trysail it would be worth sizing a 3rd (or 4th) reef to suit your needs
[IFYI Skip Novak published an article - maybe in Yachting Monthly but I found it on the web - on the benefit of using an extreme reef in lieu of a trysail].
LACHLANC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-10-2018, 10:46   #11
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: On a boat in Greece
Boat: Beneteau Oceanis 473
Posts: 38
Re: Garth Gregory - Beneteau 473

I forgot to mention the cutter rig. In my marina there was a cutter rig 473 but given the important role of the babysat in supporting the last he had a rigger give advice on the setup. You would also need to be confident of your deck attachment point. I will be interested in how things develop with the cutter rig (I always thought the 473 could work well as a cutter in lieu of the 140% genoa).
LACHLANC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-10-2018, 11:27   #12
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2017
Boat: Sabre 34
Posts: 140
Re: Garth Gregory - Beneteau 473

I am just curious. You already have sails, they are just old, right? Use them as a template. or am I missing something?
Alex_V is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-10-2018, 11:45   #13
Moderator
 
Pete7's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Solent, England
Boat: Moody 31
Posts: 18,423
Images: 22
Re: Garth Gregory - Beneteau 473

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex_V View Post
I am just curious. You already have sails, they are just old, right? Use them as a template. or am I missing something?
How much stretch would you allow for on an old sail to work out how much shorter the new sail should be?

Or you could use a steel tape measure and measure the boat.
Pete7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-10-2018, 11:51   #14
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2017
Boat: Sabre 34
Posts: 140
Re: Garth Gregory - Beneteau 473

No clue, I am just curious. Never had to order sails before.

I was told once that dodger or bimini canvases are much easier to make if you have old ones as a template. So, I presume same could work for for sails.
Alex_V is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-10-2018, 09:38   #15
Marine Service Provider
 
Kestrahl's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Sri Lanka
Boat: Laurie Davidson 35
Posts: 394
Re: Garth Gregory - Beneteau 473

You can't trust the Beneteau owners manuals. I've made 473 sails and the manual was a bit out on those. I also did sails for a 523 and the boom was .5m shorter than what the user manual said.... Best to measure each boat individually to be 100% sure of sails fitting.

An amateur may try and use an old dodger or bimini as a template, but any professional would make new patterns directly off the frames on the boat. Same goes for any professional sailmaker should take direct measurements from the boat and not rely on the old sail sizes.
Kestrahl is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
beneteau

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 21:55.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.