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Old 01-08-2020, 16:03   #16
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Re: 31.2Kw Victron LiFePO4 Split System Install

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I wish I were your Victron dealer That's an awesome set-up!

Matt
Thanks!

There are a lot of "Tiffany Blue" boxes aboard - Although I think the smaller versions containing compressed carbon bits might have been cheaper .
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Old 01-08-2020, 18:57   #17
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Re: 31.2Kw Victron LiFePO4 Split System Install

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(...) 280AH @ 24V (6720W). Assuming 80% DOD, the 13.5Kw GenSet should be able to get the 24V bank back to ~95% in less than 3 hours.

Lastly, more 24V LiFePO4 would be great, but it becomes impractical due to space/weight limitations (and $$$) and with the finite solar, would simply result in more Genset hours to maintain.

Positive. I think upwards of 200A with this battery bank size is very good capacity.


One last word is you probably know recent Victron stuff marked 'smart' has BT dongles built in. You are saving on shunts and gaining access to monitor each component's performance individually - from your smartphone or tablet.



Good luck with the project, and enjoy the results!


Btw - very nice boat too!


barnakiel
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Old 02-08-2020, 00:05   #18
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Re: 31.2Kw Victron LiFePO4 Split System Install

Report back on your real-world experience....
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Old 02-08-2020, 07:48   #19
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Re: 31.2Kw Victron LiFePO4 Split System Install

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Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post
Positive. I think upwards of 200A with this battery bank size is very good capacity.

One last word is you probably know recent Victron stuff marked 'smart' has BT dongles built in. You are saving on shunts and gaining access to monitor each component's performance individually - from your smartphone or tablet.

Good luck with the project, and enjoy the results!

Btw - very nice boat too!

barnakiel
Thanks B,

I agree, the connectivity is awesome. I manage virtually all aspects of the boat from an iPad, or via the VRM portal when not onboard. This gets even better with the Cerbo GX. It's easy to get spoiled.
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Old 02-08-2020, 07:49   #20
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Re: 31.2Kw Victron LiFePO4 Split System Install

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Report back on your real-world experience....
Will do - We're a couple weeks away from sea trials.
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Old 03-08-2020, 10:37   #21
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Re: 31.2Kw Victron LiFePO4 Split System Install

Solbian makes good solar panels that you can step on and are anti skid... could be an option for more solar. Also if you want more power from your alternator look into Electrodyne... they can produce 250amp at 24v, could be used to charge your service bank as well.
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Old 03-08-2020, 11:26   #22
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Re: 31.2Kw Victron LiFePO4 Split System Install

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Solbian makes good solar panels that you can step on and are anti skid... could be an option for more solar. Also if you want more power from your alternator look into Electrodyne... they can produce 250amp at 24v, could be used to charge your service bank as well.
Thanks silverlb,

I've used SunPower exclusively thus far, but there are lots of great solar offerings. If/when we decide to install Flex panels they will not be in any walk-on areas. The available area dimensions will largely dictate panel selections. I think we can probably get 500W-600W on the Bimini and Port side coach roof areas (as seen below).

I'm unfamiliar with Electrodyne but will investigate. I've spec'd out an APS 24V/185A HI alternator but I'm holding off until I get a sense of how the system performs in actual usage. I also need to work out additional engine well ventilation to keep the monster alternator(s) cool.
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Old 04-08-2020, 11:00   #23
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Re: 31.2Kw Victron LiFePO4 Split System Install

The BMW EV battery is 32kwh and can be purchased for $2700 from several sources with 80% capacity. Comes with about 25 batteries and can be stored as you want. Just needs alot of cables. It will raise your water line.

I have seen several try to run A/C off an inverter and the inverter produces alot of heat and many fail. As an inverter gets hot, it becomes less efficient.

How much have you spent to have air conditioning? But, a happy wife is golden.
Think about it, we absorb sunlight (solar) to stay cool. Interesting
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Old 04-08-2020, 11:17   #24
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Re: 31.2Kw Victron LiFePO4 Split System Install

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The BMW EV battery is 32kwh and can be purchased for $2700 from several sources with 80% capacity. Comes with about 25 batteries and can be stored as you want. Just needs alot of cables. It will raise your water line.

I have seen several try to run A/C off an inverter and the inverter produces alot of heat and many fail. As an inverter gets hot, it becomes less efficient.

How much have you spent to have air conditioning? But, a happy wife is golden.
Think about it, we absorb sunlight (solar) to stay cool. Interesting
I think the BMW batteries are LiIon....that would be a hard pass for me (I doubt my insurer would like the idea either.) We have 6Kw of 220V inverting which will easily drive 2Kw of AirCons on soft-starts.

I agree - Running AirCons (and making ice) from solar is the way to go.
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Old 04-08-2020, 11:33   #25
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Re: 31.2Kw Victron LiFePO4 Split System Install

Where in the world did you mount all of this stuff?

We own a 2019 Saona 47, and I can not imagine where I could put half the extra stuff that you listed. I would love to see some photos after you get everything setup the way you want it, if for nothing else but to get some ideas when the time comes for us to upgrade our electrical system.
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Old 04-08-2020, 12:16   #26
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Re: 31.2Kw Victron LiFePO4 Split System Install

I have installed the BYD Lifepo4 24 volt batteries. Each capacity tested at 3.5kwh x 2 at 7kwh. Inverting cost about 15%loss. I can run my refrigeration about 12 hours without a charge. My refrigeration uses 4 amp at 120 volts. I can run my a/c for 2.5 hours off inverter. I have 800 watts of solar that hope will be able to charge batteries each sunny day (not fully installed yet).

Have you checked your current load (amps) while running each A/C unit? With 6kwh at 220 volts, that will give you 27.28 amps if I read correctly. The other big current draw is the hot water tank. My one A/C system pulls almost 20 amps at 120 volts. The one consideration may be cycling a/c systems causing load changes in excess of 27 amps. An amp clamp and kill a watt meter may produce some great information. I would be very interested in the numbers.

I am guessing, there will be one or two a/c's can be ran with the hot water tank off to preserve battery capacity.

Looking at your list of little blue boxes brings back my memories of the days of trying to find a place for everything and the miles of wires to connect them. Good luck and remember each problem requires another blue box.
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Old 04-08-2020, 12:35   #27
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Re: 31.2Kw Victron LiFePO4 Split System Install

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Where in the world did you mount all of this stuff?

We own a 2019 Saona 47, and I can not imagine where I could put half the extra stuff that you listed. I would love to see some photos after you get everything setup the way you want it, if for nothing else but to get some ideas when the time comes for us to upgrade our electrical system.
Space limitations were a big challenge. I'm not sure our methodology would work on a Saona as your engine wells are "tighter".
  • The 4X 3Kw MultiPlus units all fit in the Port engine well along with the bus bars and myriad fuses, switches...
  • The 2X 12V/300Ah batteries are also located in the Port engine well as is a 200AH AGM start/fail-over battery.
  • The 24V batteries are mounted on custom made 80/20 aluminum tables. 4 of the 24V/200AH batteries are located under the master berth (I relocated the accumulator tank forward.)
  • The 5th 24V battery is located just forward of the master berth (all battery cabling is the exact same length.)
  • The other 200AH AGM start/fail-over battery is located in the Starboard engine well.
  • The 100A AutoTransformer in located under the cockpit grill area.
We're still a couple weeks from sea trials - I'll share photos of the build when it's complete.
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Old 05-08-2020, 12:25   #28
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Re: 31.2Kw Victron LiFePO4 Split System Install

Sorry, I'm a little late to the party. Fascinating thread (and setup).


Not sure it would buy you anything but, if you are / were concerned with the BMS shutting down everything because of a single bad cell and you have them wired in series, wouldn't pulling out the offending battery correct that issue? This would only impact your capacity based on the removed battery but everything would continue to run properly.



What you are doing is something we will hopefully have to deal with in a year or two so this is a great learning discussion thread for me. My personal preference would be going everything 24V and having a small 12V system to deal with everything that isn't 24V capable.


Cheers.
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Old 05-08-2020, 13:21   #29
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Re: 31.2Kw Victron LiFePO4 Split System Install

It is a fascinating setup and definitely pushes the limits of what we are accustomed to on recreational boats. You have done a great job.

The counter argument is what exactly are you trying to optimize for? Capability to run the air con without the generator? Is it worth it to push all this current back and forth and the added complexity? I think at this level we are talking ship sized electrical systems. Wouldn’t a smaller, super quiet, 1800 rpm generator be enough? This is how ships go about it, one or two generators and that’s it. I have also fallen in this trap to keep investing in complex systems, etc. and every couple of years I slim down and simplify the systems on my vessel. At some point you need to balance the complexity vs. the expected utility.

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Old 06-08-2020, 09:07   #30
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Re: 31.2Kw Victron LiFePO4 Split System Install

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Originally Posted by NaClyDog View Post
Sorry, I'm a little late to the party. Fascinating thread (and setup).

Not sure it would buy you anything but, if you are / were concerned with the BMS shutting down everything because of a single bad cell and you have them wired in series, wouldn't pulling out the offending battery correct that issue? This would only impact your capacity based on the removed battery but everything would continue to run properly.

What you are doing is something we will hopefully have to deal with in a year or two so this is a great learning discussion thread for me. My personal preference would be going everything 24V and having a small 12V system to deal with everything that isn't 24V capable.

Cheers.
Thanks Salty,

You're spot-on. All the batteries are paralleled and match-cabled back to busbar. The split-bank / fail-over process provides time to isolate any problem and address (i.e. remove problematic battery) without impacting any critical systems.
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