Sequence for shortening sail on a ketch?

[yesthatsue]

We're buying a ketch, and while she isn't our first split rig (I built a little 20' schooner rigged canoe yawl that we sailed for a few seasons), she is our first ketch.

When you're shortening sail, what sequence do you shorten in? In a vacuum, I'd probably partially furl the headsail, then reef the main in stages and take it in, and eventually wind up under storm jib and reefed mizzen, but what sequence gets you there?

And our boat has a main trysail. For heaving to, I'd want to be using the (reefed) mizzen, and as tiny a storm jib as possible, or do I heave to under reefed mizzen and trysail? Taking in the storm jib and mizzen, setting the trysail, and later taking in the trysail to reset the reefed mizzen as a riding sail seems like an odd way to do it.

Anyway, in what order do folks shorten sail on ketches?

[HankOnthewater]

I think the order depends on the degree of difficulty each sail can be shortened.

If the main has reef points, that can only used if a crew goes on top of the coachhouse, and the mizzen is small that can be reduced from the cockpit and the jib is on a furler, then for me it is easy: put the whole of the mainsail away, as most ketches will sail well on jib and mizzen. But all means, put up your trysail at this stage, as then there is no need to go on the deck if the situation is really getting bad.

So the answer is: "it depends".
There might be other factors that stipulate or favour one way or the other: size of sails, some sails might be in good shape (figuratively and literally) and some may not, weight of sailcloth for each sail, daylight vs nighttime, availability/position of winches, fitness of crew, lee shore or not.

[Warby12]

We dump the main first. It is a boom furler which can be done from the cockpit but it sails so well on headsail and mizzen, we think its easier to shorten or eliminate the main, specially at night. Then if it gets even stronger, we can easily furl part of the headsail. It stays very balanced and steers easily on headsail and mizzen (best reason for a ketch). The mizzen does have reef points in it but the sail is small, stiff and flat so we have not needed them.

[Michael Cobbe]

We had a ketch and the sequence was genoa, main then the mizzen.

[dlane1181]

I agree with those above whose said, “it depends.”

We have a Sunward 48’ ketch that had roller furling on all 3 sails when we purchased her 6+ years ago. Back then, our order of reefing depended mostly on the point of sail and what we were trying to accomplish by reefing, power down or trim the helm.

We changed ~3 years ago to single-line traditional slab reefing with lazy jacks on the main and mizzen. Nowadays, we usually reef the main first and early, and we might douse it altogether before reducing either the 140% genoa or the mizzen.

As others have mentioned, our Sunward also sails beautifully and comfortably under genoa and mizzen alone - “jib and jigger”. We’ve done this up to ~25kts of true wind in the vicinity of a beam reach, so little to no increase in apparent wind speed.

[dlane1181]

As a corollary to the OP’s question about order of reefing sails, I’m curious to know how other ketch sailors usually heave to. With or without the main? With or without the mizzen? With what headsail, genoa or staysail?

[rbrazil]

1. Furl (reef) the Genoa.
2. Roll in the Main. (In mast furling)
3. Reef the Mizzen.

4. Un-furl the Staysail if the winds pipe up.

[Exctyengr]

On my Ketch, Shalimar, a Mariner 40, it was reef the main, take up some on the genoa and sail on shortened genoa and mizzen. Sailed well on that combination. That said, we sailed out of San Diego and the weather was fairly benign, winds predictable and the boat was heavy.

[Peregrine1983]

On our Pearson 424, if it’s a “we need to shorten sail right now” situation, we furl up the Genoa first as that’s our largest sail and we can reduce it immediately from the cockpit.

If we are heading out and it’s blowing hard and may get windier, we often will go just “jib and jigger” (Genoa and mizzen) as the boat is well balanced in that configuration and isn’t overpowered until it’s really blowing.

[MarkOne]

As has been well said above, it depends. Our rule of thumb is to reef the main first. Changing from a schooner when we took sail off 'the ends' with our ketch we take sail off 'the middle' first. Try and see what works best.

[rondelais]

On our Pearson 365 the sail area of the genoa is larger than the main and mizzen combined. So as the wind pipes up, we roll up some genoa first to reduce heel and resulting weather helm. Then, if going sharp to windward is not required, we either reef or drop the main. As others have said, the boat sails very nicely with no main and a partially rolled up genoa, but does not point as high. Reefing the main requires being at the mast, so if things are getting lively we do this fairly early, and often put in two reefs right away. If we do have to go sharply to windward, we usually drop the mizzen which lets us carry a little more main and maybe a little more genoa. I have never reefed the mizzen, although I probably should sometime to see what happens - or else Just get rid of the reefing lines.

[waterman46]

Every design will balance differently with various sail combos. And the answer to your question depends on what point of sail that works best for your situation.

I only speak for our experience with the Morgan 46 ketch. Upwind I often don't use the mizzen unless i'm trying to impress spectators - it doesn't add anything to boat speed and the boat certainly does not need more weather helm. We have roller furling genoa and either staysail or storm jib on hanks. If the wind comes up then I will first reef the main and furl the genoa about 20%. The limit on genoa reefing is the sail shape. Main has standard slab reefing at the mast, works well for me. Due to location of mast close to dodger and remainder of cockpit completely covered, I can't easily reach the bunt-lines, but we have full battens on a Dutchman rig and don't need to fully tie in the reef points. More wind, roller furl the genoa and set the staysail on its hanks, second reef main.

If you don't have staysail and will be offshore, do install a staysail. The staysail or storm jib is always hanked on and lashed to the deck when offshore, ready to go.

Staysail with double reefed main will take us up to probably 40 knots of wind. If I had been expecting a storm I would have previously hanked on the storm jib instead of the staysail. Still talking about upwind destination here. Theoretically now, if wind goes above 40 knots and I'm forced to sail upwind I would lower the main and raise the mizzen, and would have to bear off to maybe 70 deg off the wind to keep boat speed in the seas. If seas confused and steep, with leeway and drift, we may not make much headway to weather - motorsailing may be necessary to avoid danger.

Off the wind it's somewhat different. The mizzen would be set all the time. So the main can be reefed more or even lowered earlier. You don't need a flat genoa, so can reef it to any amount you want. When the wind gets about 25 knots steady, I would fully reef the genoa and raise the staysail or storm jib, whatever I had hanked on at the time. With double reef in the main and the full mizzen, sailing at this point is a gas - for once the boat is actually lively and even accelerating on the swells! But steering is tiring, so you have a good autopilot.
Next to go down would be the main completely, keeping the mizzen up, reefing if necessary.

Really bad conditions, lower the mizzen and set drogue. Steer a course to keep storm jib from collapsing. More wind, lower storm jib.

BTW we can heave-to if waves not a big deal, with staysail and mizzen. But I don't like the chafe on the sheets of the backwinded staysail so I don't do that.

Any of this requires some deck work. It can be reduced but not completely avoided.

In spite of the overwhelming recommendations of seasoned ocean sailors, I am not convinced there is any need for a trysail on a ketch. Can you sail anywhere upwind with a trysail? Beam reach or heave to maybe, but do you want to go beam to seas in trysail conditions? The windage of most cruising boats due to dodgers and high freeboard, high decks, furled mainsail on boom, is greater than the trysail area. If you can't sail upwind or beam reach, that windage is just as effective, or undesireable if you prefer, as a trysail.

[tarian]

the genoa first as the main covers it and allows for easier furlking if in strong winds, the main next the mizzen the easiest last

Sail up to 25 + knots with genoa and mizzen only

Solent rigged so genoa can go away and inner put up ,along with other sail configurations , depending on wind strength and direction. the day will determine the sail plans and put up and down

If no problems with weather , the main first as it it the hardest .

Ask a sailor a question about sail plan you will get 1000 answers

[Kalinowski]

We echo Peregrine 1983 and have the same sequence with our Pearson 424 ketch. She sails beautifully with just jib and jigger.

[zeehag]

i generally sail under jib n jigger, reefing means rolling in some genny and leaving mizzen alone. my formosa balances perfectly under mizzen and genoa, so i generally donot use my mainsail. headsail and mizzen are cockpit controlled