Jeanneau vs Amel

[DeValency]

Teak deck is a matter of taste and most important original wood thickness, quality and maintenance. As an anti skid surface, it is still the best imho.
My Contest 43 is almost an identical Dutch made to the HR. The teak decks are 28 years old in a great shape overall. The maintenance is mostly cleaning once a month with a soft pad and soap- about 30 min.
Once a year - sealing (I use SEMCO) very easy application that takes few hours.
That’s it.
I’m now testing a water based varnish to eliminate the need for the annual sealing - still in my teak lab at home

But I’ve seen other boat makes with a poor original teak, where after 5 years the planks are raising and cracked... you definitely want to stay away from these and get the anti-skid gelcoat deck finish.

Originally Posted by Sojourner

I was about to say that! The striping I know is very labor intensive because I just redid ours this winter, in white. Really ties the room together.

As we settle into a winter this time in rainy corfu, our neighbor who is also staying has teak decks. She says they turn GREEN and she has to scrub them every few weeks because there is so much moisture and shade here. She very much wishes she had our fake gelcoat teak

[joefults]

The price difference is all about volume, both in the builds and also in the cost of the purchased parts, furlers, sails, rigging, winches, steering systems, HVAC, refrigeration, etc. etc. Beneteau, who also owns Jenneau, Lagoon, CNB, and another 6-8 brands has alot of buying power.

[NYSail]

Two completely different boats

[whuati]

There is really is no comparison between these boats. I have lived on-board full time for 5 years on 3 different boats. A Jeanneau Sundance 36, a Jeanneau Sun Odyssey 45.2 and now on an Amel Super Maramu.
These boats are so different, build quality, design, comfort etc. etc.
The Jeanneau sailed well and quite fast, comfortable for myself, my wife abd our daughter. However the Amel has so much storage its amazing, sails 8 plus knots easily. Its not super fast for a 16m boat but so comfortable and easily does 180nm a day plus. The Amel is older 1993 our Jeanneau was 1999 however most things work as the original equipment they chose was of the highest quality. Wood and Brightwork is amazing.
We sailed both boats in over 40 knots, the Jeanneau 45.2 did handle it but lots of slamming, a lot of stress on the boat and rig and we got soaking wet and tired fast. The Amel in 40 to 50 knots OK it was rough but i didn't actually that bad as protected behind hard canopy and enclosed in cockpit tent. It wasn't until I stuck my head out!!!!! wow windy!! Ye we took watch in turns easily handling the Amel single handed and I slept in this weather, no chance of sleep on the Jeanneau in that sort of wind.
All I can say is I love our Amel and will never change, amazing boats.

[Mag3]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

Are Amel masts from Selden now?


Ouch.


They used to be built in house be either Amel themselves or a local subcontractor - and to a much higher standard. Never heard of a jam in an Amel mast but a friend on a posh HR boat was forced to chop off his main once ... mid Atlantic ...


b.

They still build their own masts in switzerland - they're pure artwork. see the "amel 50 build" thread for LOTS of pics..

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by whuati

There is really is no comparison between these boats. I have lived on-board full time for 5 years on 3 different boats. A Jeanneau Sundance 36, a Jeanneau Sun Odyssey 45.2 and now on an Amel Super Maramu.
These boats are so different, build quality, design, comfort etc. etc.
The Jeanneau sailed well and quite fast, comfortable for myself, my wife abd our daughter. However the Amel has so much storage its amazing, sails 8 plus knots easily. Its not super fast for a 16m boat but so comfortable and easily does 180nm a day plus. The Amel is older 1993 our Jeanneau was 1999 however most things work as the original equipment they chose was of the highest quality. Wood and Brightwork is amazing.
We sailed both boats in over 40 knots, the Jeanneau 45.2 did handle it but lots of slamming, a lot of stress on the boat and rig and we got soaking wet and tired fast. The Amel in 40 to 50 knots OK it was rough but i didn't actually that bad as protected behind hard canopy and enclosed in cockpit tent. It wasn't until I stuck my head out!!!!! wow windy!! Ye we took watch in turns easily handling the Amel single handed and I slept in this weather, no chance of sleep on the Jeanneau in that sort of wind.
All I can say is I love our Amel and will never change, amazing boats.

The fact that your 52.5 foot 35,000lb Amel is roomier and better in 40kt winds than a 21,000lb 46' Jeanneau doesn't say anything about which boat is better. It just verifies that the bigger boat is roomier and better in a storm. Surprise! Actually you bought the wrong boat. You should have bought a boat like my friend's 63' Hanse which is way roomier and takes really bad storms like they are nothing.

In fact if you want a really good boat, try a Swan 100.

[Mag3]

Originally Posted by boom23

Just to clarify, the “teak” deck on the Amel is not plastic. It is colored gelcoat. The striping is done by hand and is very time consuming.

One of the Amel concepts is to reduce unnecessary maintenance and to make the maintenance of the important items easier. This is one of the reasons why I bought an Amel. I did not want any exterior wood. I really wish other high end manufacturers would do something similar.

as someone who grew up being sent to wooden boat school, worked for years on my fathers two wooden boats, and who who considers himself a pretty skilled craftsman.. I just bought an Amel 50.

Boom23's overall philosophy and take mirror mine in almost every regard...

but as it relates to the labor intensive gel coat fake teak... I must say, it's a good thing to stop cutting down rare harwoods so they can slowly rot on top of fiberglass so we have pretty decks - and i'll repeat it... this comes from a woodworker.

I looked hard at contest, and hallberg... on both... all i saw in the decks was a maintenance nightmare waiting to happen (just got done ripping out the dead teak decks on my existing passport 42) AND a pile of rare hardwood trees that were cut down...

[Zzmeyer]

Originally Posted by Mag3

as someone who grew up being sent to wooden boat school, worked for years on my fathers two wooden boats, and who who considers himself a pretty skilled craftsman.. I just bought an Amel 50.

Boom23's overall philosophy and take mirror mine in almost every regard...

but as it relates to the labor intensive gel coat fake teak... I must say, it's a good thing to stop cutting down rare harwoods so they can slowly rot on top of fiberglass so we have pretty decks - and i'll repeat it... this comes from a woodworker.

I looked hard at contest, and hallberg... on both... all i saw in the decks was a maintenance nightmare waiting to happen (just got done ripping out the dead teak decks on my existing passport 42) AND a pile of rare hardwood trees that were cut down...

Congratulations on acquiring perhaps the most perfect boat. Your concur for the teak decks is well deserved. They are a bitch. Your environmental concern given the amount of everything else that destroys the environment in a boat is a bit misguided. I've owned two all wood and seven dinosaur glass boats and none of us are doing the environment a bit of good.

[robert sailor]

Interesting read and those that say it's a poor comparison are in my mind correct. Let's start with the purpose of the boat, maybe an Atlantic crossing and cruising in the Caribbean. That's easy, almost any sailboat will handle that if you sail in season, heck they row boats across the Atlantic so sure almost anything will cross. You know Cal 25's and the lowly Catalina 27 have circumnavigated so even though as others have said many of these boats are build primarily for the charter market they will and certainly do cross oceans. So in my mind choose whatever turns your crank and serves your purposes.
Build quality...there really is no comparison on build quality. The high production liner boats are built down to a price and there is nothing wrong with that. It allows many people that could not otherwise afford to buy a new boat to own one.
Hulls are laid up in a mold and are quite thin and not able to support themselves until a liner is installed. The liner is what gives the otherwise thinner laid up hull its strength. It's a boat inside a boat. The liner forms everything from additional strengthening in the hull and keel mounting areas to heads, floors, galleys and bases for bunks and seating. Before the liner is placed in the hull workmen go around a shoot in plexus glue in certain spots in the hull and then drop the liner in place. It's this glue that basically holds the boat together. The liner has slots that the bulkhead are glued into and in no time the interior is finished. The deck is laid on top of the hull and is glued in place. Not that long ago the hull to deck joint was glued or used bedding compounds and then the toe rails were thru bolted to the hull and deck. The move after this was to stop using thru bolts and instead they used self tapping screws and now many are built with just glue.
These construction methods allow these builders to produce a large, light weight boat that sail well for very low production costs. They do have limits as to the total number of cycles they are approved for to meet the Euro standards. The accessories will be brand names but they are not built to the same standards as used on higher end yachts, as an example winches will often have plastic internal parts rather than stainless or bronze. Your thru hulls will be brass rather than bronze with a life intended for around 5 years.

Ok now how is the Amel built or other high end yachts like HR. The thicker hulls are hand laid in a mold and stiffeners are glassed into the hull sides for and aft and floors structures are glassed into place. Bulkhead are then installed using strips of fibreglass that attaches them to hull, floors and decks. All internal cabinetry is also glassed into place. The interior is then installed by craftsmen including all accessories. The decks are installed and depending on the builder glued and thru bolted and after that is done they go back and fibreglass the hull and deck together turning it into a one piece structure that is unbelievably strong and will never leak. All accessories will be high end top of the line. These are called stick built boats and they are superior in every way to liner built boats except for built time and total construction cost.
These stick built boats tend to age better and they won't start to break down if used in heavy sailing over the years. They are also very easy to repair and refit as you can take them apart and get right to the hull and decks. Liner built boats cover up the hull so if you ever had a breach you might not even be able to locate it behind a liner.

Is my preference stick built boats? Sure it is, they are simply better built however the question really is do you need a better built boat to get out there and cross oceans or coastal cruise in Mexico or the Caribbean...answer is no. Your going to have to pay for that quality difference and many either don't have the money or choose to use it in other ways. So it's really a personal decision that only you can make...1st world problem!!

[Mag3]

Originally Posted by Zzmeyer

Congratulations on acquiring perhaps the most perfect boat. Your concur for the teak decks is well deserved. They are a bitch. Your environmental concern given the amount of everything else that destroys the environment in a boat is a bit misguided. I've owned two all wood and seven dinosaur glass boats and none of us are doing the environment a bit of good.

i know i know... fiberglass is petroleum based etc. in the end no perfect solution, but for me.. i've been desperately trying to move away from cutting down old growth timber / wood.

[boom23]

Originally Posted by Mag3

as someone who grew up being sent to wooden boat school, worked for years on my fathers two wooden boats, and who who considers himself a pretty skilled craftsman.. I just bought an Amel 50.

Boom23's overall philosophy and take mirror mine in almost every regard...

but as it relates to the labor intensive gel coat fake teak... I must say, it's a good thing to stop cutting down rare harwoods so they can slowly rot on top of fiberglass so we have pretty decks - and i'll repeat it... this comes from a woodworker.

I looked hard at contest, and hallberg... on both... all i saw in the decks was a maintenance nightmare waiting to happen (just got done ripping out the dead teak decks on my existing passport 42) AND a pile of rare hardwood trees that were cut down...

Congratulations on your new Amel 50! I'm sure you'll enjoy your boat. In addition to owning an as-low-maintenance-as-possible boat, you'll have the support of the Amel company, which makes a difference.

Just FYI, I asked Amel to use King Starboard material instead of teak on everything outside the cockpit (bow & stern seats, step inserts, etc.). It's perfect!

[donradcliffe]

Originally Posted by B23iL23

I get where you are coming from on this but I would trade lockers for big windows every day of the week. If I'm going to be living on board I want a light, bright interior and not a cave. That's down to taste but for me a boat with a dark interior is a deal breaker.

Have you ever heard of the greenhouse effect? With big windows, especially slanted ones, you need a genset and air conditioning running all day.

Not to mention, structural engineers have nightmares about big windows.

[outbound_308]

I like the idea of the Amel hull to deck joint, however I don't know if that is really needed or an advantage. I find this with most high end boats and sometimes it just comes down to preference. When I get on an amel, oyster, HR, hylas etc the quality to me is just what right looks like. Is it really needed or does it justify the cost? I don't know, it's just what I like.

I think often people want to justify their preference on these types of discussions by basically saying my boat is better than xyz boat. Your requirements and preferences will determine what is the right boat for you. It won't be the right boat for everybody, and that's ok. Its not a boat for them.

[malbert73]

Originally Posted by robert sailor

Interesting read and those that say it's a poor comparison are in my mind correct. Let's start with the purpose of the boat, maybe an Atlantic crossing and cruising in the Caribbean. That's easy, almost any sailboat will handle that if you sail in season, heck they row boats across the Atlantic so sure almost anything will cross. You know Cal 25's and the lowly Catalina 27 have circumnavigated so even though as others have said many of these boats are build primarily for the charter market they will and certainly do cross oceans. So in my mind choose whatever turns your crank and serves your purposes.
Build quality...there really is no comparison on build quality. The high production liner boats are built down to a price and there is nothing wrong with that. It allows many people that could not otherwise afford to buy a new boat to own one.
Hulls are laid up in a mold and are quite thin and not able to support themselves until a liner is installed. The liner is what gives the otherwise thinner laid up hull its strength. It's a boat inside a boat. The liner forms everything from additional strengthening in the hull and keel mounting areas to heads, floors, galleys and bases for bunks and seating. Before the liner is placed in the hull workmen go around a shoot in plexus glue in certain spots in the hull and then drop the liner in place. It's this glue that basically holds the boat together. The liner has slots that the bulkhead are glued into and in no time the interior is finished. The deck is laid on top of the hull and is glued in place. Not that long ago the hull to deck joint was glued or used bedding compounds and then the toe rails were thru bolted to the hull and deck. The move after this was to stop using thru bolts and instead they used self tapping screws and now many are built with just glue.
These construction methods allow these builders to produce a large, light weight boat that sail well for very low production costs. They do have limits as to the total number of cycles they are approved for to meet the Euro standards. The accessories will be brand names but they are not built to the same standards as used on higher end yachts, as an example winches will often have plastic internal parts rather than stainless or bronze. Your thru hulls will be brass rather than bronze with a life intended for around 5 years.

Ok now how is the Amel built or other high end yachts like HR. The thicker hulls are hand laid in a mold and stiffeners are glassed into the hull sides for and aft and floors structures are glassed into place. Bulkhead are then installed using strips of fibreglass that attaches them to hull, floors and decks. All internal cabinetry is also glassed into place. The interior is then installed by craftsmen including all accessories. The decks are installed and depending on the builder glued and thru bolted and after that is done they go back and fibreglass the hull and deck together turning it into a one piece structure that is unbelievably strong and will never leak. All accessories will be high end top of the line. These are called stick built boats and they are superior in every way to liner built boats except for built time and total construction cost.
These stick built boats tend to age better and they won't start to break down if used in heavy sailing over the years. They are also very easy to repair and refit as you can take them apart and get right to the hull and decks. Liner built boats cover up the hull so if you ever had a breach you might not even be able to locate it behind a liner.

Is my preference stick built boats? Sure it is, they are simply better built however the question really is do you need a better built boat to get out there and cross oceans or coastal cruise in Mexico or the Caribbean...answer is no. Your going to have to pay for that quality difference and many either don't have the money or choose to use it in other ways. So it's really a personal decision that only you can make...1st world problem!!

Probably the best balanced post on build quality in a while

[billknny]

Originally Posted by outbound_308

I like the idea of the Amel hull to deck joint, however I don't know if that is really needed or an advantage.

We have actually had someone call us "liars" to our face when we told them that our 25 year old Amel doesn't leak--ever. He owned a Jeanneau, and just the idea that an older, well maintained boat could actually, really, and truly, be 100% watertight seemed impossible to him. Kind of tells me everything I need to know about his boat...

I guess a proper hull deck joint is only "an advantage" if you want to keep ALL of the ocean on the outside of your boat--all the time.