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27-09-2019, 05:05
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#76
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Med.
Boat: Amel 50
Posts: 1,016
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Re: Jeanneau vs Amel
Quote:
Originally Posted by Medved
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And, that’s just scratching the surface of Amel boat construction.
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27-09-2019, 06:31
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#77
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 16
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Re: Jeanneau vs Amel
In simple terms a Beneteau or Jeanneau or Bavaria or any other production are primarily built for the charter industry. They are not designed to last fore ever. The charter guys usually sell them off before they start falling apart at about 5 years old. The more bespoke yacht like Amel are built to be solid seafaring vessel that you would take Oceanic and trust their build quality to get you through any storm.
What are you going to use the yacht for? Weekend pootling about or a circumnavigation fit several years.
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27-09-2019, 07:06
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#78
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: London
Boat: Beneteau Oceanis 473
Posts: 3
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Re: Jeanneau vs Amel
Quote:
Originally Posted by Medved
Use is Chesapeake summer and the Caribbean in the winter with ability to go back and forth between the two.
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I have owned my current Bene for 7 years now, currently, in Georgia having sailed across the pond from the UK, have sailed extensively on all sorts, top-end Amels, Rasseys, Swans and Oysters, sure there's a difference! As already outlined by the many here.
The quality of fixtures is a biggy, the craftmanship is another, the choices of materials and things like waterproof bulkheads and the like, unfortunately, the analogy is the same as BMW to Fiat I'm afraid, Fiat does make good cars, they will run forever and will definitely get you from A-B. There is also what we brits call snobbery, there is also oneupmanship, if you asked a top-end boat owner what they thought of a bene or jannie, id be surprised they have anything good to say, ask a production line boat owner and they'd probably say what I'm saying, we know its not perfect, but can you justify $300K to $3m? Plus you can put a hell of a lot of extras on and fit it out to your liking and still not be a third of the price, even second hand.
__________________
Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass … it's about learning to dance in the rain!
Allegrini.co.uk[
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27-09-2019, 07:25
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#79
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Australia
Boat: Catalina 470
Posts: 4,578
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Re: Jeanneau vs Amel
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nic Homan
In simple terms a Beneteau or Jeanneau or Bavaria or any other production are primarily built for the charter industry. They are not designed to last fore ever. The charter guys usually sell them off before they start falling apart at about 5 years old. The more bespoke yacht like Amel are built to be solid seafaring vessel that you would take Oceanic and trust their build quality to get you through any storm.
What are you going to use the yacht for? Weekend pootling about or a circumnavigation fit several years.
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You base this on what exactly? Did you see my photo of a dying Amel in a previous post?
I see all sorts of boats daily in various degrees of condition, the reality is a boat is only as good as how well you maintain it.
Please tell my friend Fabio that just sailed around the world on his Beneteau 473 that it was meant to fall apart after 5 years....he just got lucky I suppose?
I'm just not seeing all these production boats falling apart as you suggest they do.
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27-09-2019, 07:27
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#80
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Australia
Boat: Catalina 470
Posts: 4,578
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Re: Jeanneau vs Amel
Quote:
Originally Posted by Houssie
I have owned my current Bene for 7 years now, currently, in Georgia having sailed across the pond from the UK, have sailed extensively on all sorts, top-end Amels, Rasseys, Swans and Oysters, sure there's a difference! As already outlined by the many here.
The quality of fixtures is a biggy, the craftmanship is another, the choices of materials and things like waterproof bulkheads and the like, unfortunately, the analogy is the same as BMW to Fiat I'm afraid, Fiat does make good cars, they will run forever and will definitely get you from A-B. There is also what we brits call snobbery, there is also oneupmanship, if you asked a top-end boat owner what they thought of a bene or jannie, id be surprised they have anything good to say, ask a production line boat owner and they'd probably say what I'm saying, we know its not perfect, but can you justify $300K to $3m? Plus you can put a hell of a lot of extras on and fit it out to your liking and still not be a third of the price, even second hand.
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Who has waterproof bulkheads? did you mean water tight bulkheads ie compartmentalize the boat? Amels have them but few others do, I have one water tight collision bulkhead.
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27-09-2019, 09:05
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#81
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Chemainus BC
Boat: Camano 41
Posts: 286
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Re: Jeanneau vs Amel
I read that the OP has a lot of comparison information between cars and motorcycles, a similar logic applies here. I did the Victoria-Maui race as the bowman on a MacGregor 65, fast, obviously ocean capable, got to Maui, pulled out the cushions and went below with a garden hose to clean her. I think the one piece of wood was around the galley sink. When I wanted to go offshore, we chose a David Pedrick designed Cheoy Lee 41' offshore, teak lined cupboards, 15 ton sturdy vessel and fast. (19 days Mexico to Marquesas) Fully insured by Lloyds for a 2 person crew. Why not start at the other end and ask both a surveyor and an insurance underwriter what vessel they would be more happy giving a stamp of approval to? If your plans only include coastal voyaging and Caribbean sight of land cruising, you may be looking for Lamborghini to go grocery shopping with. But that would be your choice. Good luck.
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27-09-2019, 09:12
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#82
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: México
Boat: Oceanis 38 11.5m
Posts: 123
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Re: Jeanneau vs Amel
The OP has stated his intended use: coastal, with jaunts to the Caribbean. So the answer is super simple.
Jeanneau. The Amel is overkill for the intended use. SMH.
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27-09-2019, 11:09
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#83
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Boston
Boat: Farr 40 (Racing), Contest 43 (Cruising)
Posts: 950
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Re: Jeanneau vs Amel
Oh my, my...
you are comparing apples to watermelons...
Group Finot boats (Jeanneau, Bene, Dufor) are great, manufactured in very large batches vs the Amel, Hallberg Rassy, Gunfleet, Hyles, Contest, Island Packet etc. that are semi custom boats built to much higher standards by all means, these are true blue ocean cruisers - not that Jeanneau wouldn’t be great for it as well. And of course quantities make a difference - yes, you get way more boat for the dollar with Beneteau, Jeanneau, Catalina, Bavaria, Hanse - but you are not getting the same thing. I had both types of boats over the years.
And it depends on the intended use - if light coastal, weekends vs longer ocean voyages.
You mention the hardware - Selden, Lewmar, Harken etc. all have at least three classes of systems: The high end ocean or racing class, for example, can easily cost three times more than the basic used in the other charter oriented boats.
So the analogy of Fiat vs Mercedes is correct. Now it is for you to do the math and emotional analysis.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Medved
So as a car and a motorcycle enthusiast I can explain exactly what the difference is between a fiat and a Mercedes, I am looking for help to understand this in sailboats. It’s is my understanding that most systems come from other manufacturers anyway... Masts come from Selden, winches from Harken, engines from Yanmar, etc...
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27-09-2019, 11:41
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#84
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 953
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Re: Jeanneau vs Amel
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snore
Comes down to final cost of a ‘ready to sail’ boat (purchase + refit).
...In the end I tell folks a boat should be like a wife, seeing her should put a smile on your face.
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I feel the same way about our Tartan
To add to the discussion, I find it a pleasure to maintain our Tartan compared to working on high-volume production boats. The components, fit and finish provide a good model for ongoing maintenance. All the components, fittings, rigging, controls... are higher quality (even the sanitation hoses are better).
Over the years I've helped folks with their Catalina's, Hunter's, Beneteau's,... it is not the same experience. I now won't touch the wiring on a Beneteau
And, our Tartan sails very well and I feel it will take care of us when we screw up.
Don
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27-09-2019, 11:53
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#85
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: On Vessel WINGS, wherever there's an ocean, currently in Mexico
Boat: Serendipity 43
Posts: 5,508
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Re: Jeanneau vs Amel
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeValency
Oh my, my...
...semi custom boats built to much higher standards by all means, these are true blue ocean cruisers...And it depends on the intended use - if light coastal, weekends vs longer ocean voyages...
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Sorry, and no disrespect meant, but that just seems like a bunch of arrogant hogwash.
__________________
These lines upon my face tell you the story of who I am but these stories don't mean anything
when you've got no one to tell them to Fred Roswold Wings https://wingssail.blogspot.com/
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27-09-2019, 12:17
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#86
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Marine Service Provider
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Circumnavigator
Boat: Roberts V495
Posts: 389
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Re: Jeanneau vs Amel
Both are good boats, and will serve your needs in Caribbean & back.
- either can go around the world for that matter.
if you ever go thru a hurricane, you’d want to be on the Amel.
If you expect your wife to do night watches & shorten sail without waking you, you’ll want to be on the Amel.
You don’t have to be on a new one.....you can buy a used Amel, do a circumnavigation, and given that it’s been maintained, sell it for what you paid. Very healthy used market.
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27-09-2019, 15:36
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#87
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: San Francisco, CA
Boat: Beneteau Oceanis 40, 2008
Posts: 11
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Re: Jeanneau vs Amel
Quote:
Originally Posted by Medved
I am sure this has been discussed before, so if you point me to the right thread that would work too. I just completed 5 day live aboard 103/104 ASA course on a 41 Bene, and just so happen to be invited to an open house at my local dealer to look at Jeanneau sailboats today. I am interested in a boat that can comfortably house 6 people for a week, so after looking at a number of them 51 yacht looked like a winner. So here is the question... 51 base price is 429K. The same size boat by Amel or Halas for example is 3 times the price. I just watched an episode of Delos talking to Amel naval architect who also designs for the Bene group. So why is it 3 times the price???
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This is perhaps a slightly stale thread, but funny enough I just got done looking at both the Amel 50 and the Jeanneau 51. They were my two favorite boats, but they are very different, and if you step aboard both in turn, the differences are immediately obvious.
To start with, if you took a $450K Jeanneau 51 and simply purchased and had installed all of the extra gear that comes fitted to a $1M Amel 50, both the obvious big stuff like a generator and watermaker and also the hundreds of bits of smaller stuff, you'd bring the Jeanneau up to about $650-700K by my estimate.
The remaining difference of $300-350K buys you:
- Better materials and fittings pretty much everywhere,
- A far higher standard of construction,
- Dramatically better fit and finish,
- The incredible Amel mast,
- That super secure enclosed cockpit,
- And around 10,000 pounds more fiberglass
A portion of the difference must also pay for Amel's reduced "economies of scale" and far less automated construction compared to Beneteau, of course, but overall I consider it $350K very well spent if the boat is something you plan to spend serious time aboard.
Said another way, you are mostly paying for actual stuff, not just a brand name. I'd sail a well-prepared 51 across an ocean with just a bit of the trepidation that comes from pushing a production boat harder than 99% of owners, but I'd take a factory Amel anywhere without a second thought. Heck, I'd actually *enjoy* 40 knots in the Amel cockpit!
Oh and lastly, I rather suspect that the 10-year depreciation curve on an Amel 50 looks quite a bit better than the Jeanneau 51, at least in percentage terms.
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27-09-2019, 15:46
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#88
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Australia
Boat: Catalina 470
Posts: 4,578
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Re: Jeanneau vs Amel
What is the hull build process of both boats ie how are they layed up, I'm assuming very differently from each other?
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27-09-2019, 22:33
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#89
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Med.
Boat: Amel 50
Posts: 1,016
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Jeanneau vs Amel
Quote:
Originally Posted by daletournier
What is the hull build process of both boats ie how are they layed up, I'm assuming very differently from each other?
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Here is what I posted before on the build process of my Amel 50:
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ad-211201.html
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28-09-2019, 01:25
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#90
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 286
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Jeanneau vs Amel
This thread opened my eyes for the Amel brand. I have always liked odd boats with clever technical solutions and the Amels really seem to have it all. I currently sail a Dufour production boat and love it but I have done a lot of mods to it to make it better to live aboard. I have one question for you guys that actually own an Amel; How is it to sit down and steer? Obviously I’m used to stand up in the back of the cockpit as this is how most production boat are set up. I would imagine that sitting down would be a little harder in terms of keeping a good watch and docking.
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