Hanse 418 or Jeanneau 410?

[Polux]

Originally Posted by Alita49DS

OK then with your theory. Try this for reality. In Elba this morning there was torrential rain and hail. The Beneteau 60 next to me in Portoferraio has a keel stepped mast. My Jeanneau 49DS deck stepped. Who was moaning about water in bucket fulls coming in. Hint : not me.

That has not to do with reality in what regards a proper insulated mast but with the reality of a poor not insulated one. Mine does not let water in and even after winter storage, all winter taking rain without nobody taken it out, when I arrive at spring it is bone dry.

[Polux]

Originally Posted by Pete O Static

Sorry but I beg to differ. I don't mean to be rude but to say that "all race boats or true performance boats use them" is not at all accurate. Many performance racing boats are being built with deck stepped masts and neither of the mentioned boats really qualify as such anyway.

As for salt water in the bilge, lets use your example of a Swan 50 or any boat that utilizes a stuffing box for that matter. If it is not weeping while in use, chances are, it is too tight. No bilge pump will ever get all of the water out of the bilge sump. If I see a shaft drive boat with a bone dry bilge, I see a potential issue with the shaft being scored. As such, to say that if you have salt water in your bilge you have bigger problems is also, not accurate. If you don't know how or why it got there, then maybe.

.....

Water on the bilge? I never had water on the bilge on modern boats. Most of them use saildrive. My actual boat has 16 000 nm, never had water on the bilge.

I would like to know about those many race boats or many true performance cruisers that have deck-stepped mast because I don't know any (with the exception of the Swan 50 that is a special case with a very strong carbon box to take the efforts to the hull).

Off course for performance cruiser I don't mean what many Americans call performance cruisers (some say that jeanneaus and the like are performance cruisers) but really fast boats, also denominated cruiser racers.

[Cloroxbottle]

Originally Posted by kitrob

Thankyou so much for all your thoughts. In answer to the query about why I thought Hanse May be stronger than the Jeanneau, I hate to say this but is based on the age old thread that more likely than not anything built by the Germans is likely to be better built/ more robust than the equivalent built by the French. My Peugeot is a case in point.

Remember...

In heaven, the chefs are French, the police are British, the cars are German, and everything is run by the Swiss.

In hell, the chefs are British, the police are German, the cars are French, and everything is run by the Italians.

[Pete O Static]

Originally Posted by Polux

Water on the bilge? I never had water on the bilge on modern boats. Most of them use saildrive. My actual boat has 16 000 nm, never had water on the bilge.

I would like to know about those many race boats or many true performance cruisers that have deck-stepped mast because I don't know any (with the exception of the Swan 50 that is a special case with a very strong carbon box to take the efforts to the hull).

Off course for performance cruiser I don't mean what many Americans call performance cruisers (some say that jeanneaus and the like are performance cruisers) but really fast boats, also denominated cruiser racers.

If you have a sail drive, you likely wont have water in the bilge. This is exactly why I specified boats with shaft drive. I could go on to include wooden boats as well but assumed the audience could figure that out.

As for deck stepped on racing boats. Do you really need a list? Some of the newer Volvo Ocean Racers went with deck stepped. Does that count?

[Zzmeyer]

Cheating, I know, but the recent Americas Cup boats are deck stepped. The Beneteau Figaro is deck stepped. The Jeanneau Sunfast 3300 and 36 are also deck stepped.
Although I had keel stepped masts when I raced, mast bend was controlled by backstay tension combined with an adjustable baby stay. Very little adjustment due to being keel stepped. Also, I still get salt water in my bilge, even with a sail drive, as I take my through hull speed/depth transducer out and replace with a dumby plug each time I go sailing.

[Polux]

Originally Posted by Pete O Static

If you have a sail drive, you likely wont have water in the bilge. This is exactly why I specified boats with shaft drive. I could go on to include wooden boats as well but assumed the audience could figure that out.

As for deck stepped on racing boats. Do you really need a list? Some of the newer Volvo Ocean Racers went with deck stepped. Does that count?

Here you have an interesting explanation about the advantages and disadvantages of keel stepped versus deck stepped regarding the Volvo 65 By American Naval Architect Eric Sponberg : Keel stepped is 50% stronger, the volvo 65 use a deck stepped mas mainly for transport advantages.

"...A keel-stepped mast is always stronger than a deck-stepped mast, on the order of +50%, because of the fixity provided by the deck partners. Therefore, if it is inherently stronger, it may also be a slightly smaller cross-section, and therefore lighter, than a deck-stepped mast. Although, a true detailed comparison may need to be made because the keel-stepped mast is longer.

A deck-stepped mast is easier to bend because of the lack of fixity at the deck, and that is usually important to top-notch sailors--they like to bend the mast all over the place to alter mainsail shape. This is harder to do with the keel stepped mast.

Changing the design of the rig for the step is rarely done, usually because that's the way the boat is built, both methods of stepping work just fine, and there is usually little need to change. It involves some pricey reconstruction inside the boat. But if a change is done, it is more common that a deck-stepped mast would change to a keel-stepped mast than the other way around. The reason to do that is to increase the strength of the rig which is important to cruising sailors venturing offshore. A deck stepped mast is much more commonly found on trailer sailers whose rigs are erected and taken down frequently.

As Phil Sweet mentioned, there may be practical issues as well that figured into the decision to go with deck-stepped masts--transportation, safety of the boat and crew if damage results. Although, in my opinion, it has always been axiomatic in boat design that in dire straits, a deck-stepped mast is almost assuredly going to totally go over the side, whereas a keel-stepped mast usually breaks well above deck, leaving a remnant aboard from which to set a jury rig."

[mglonnro]

Originally Posted by Polux

Here you have an interesting explanation about the advantages and disadvantages of keel stepped versus deck stepped ...

I checked the specifications for Hanse and Jeanneau.

All Hanses until the 548 are deck stepped and from the 548 onwards they are keel stepped.

Of the Jeanneaus, only the Jeanneau 64 is keel stepped. All others (54 and 51, and the whole SO range included) are, as far I can see, deck stepped.

Don't know why, just reporting

[pfaguiar]

Apart from the mast, any more ideas on the SO 410 vs Hanse 418?
I am inclined for the SO 410 because of the design (twin rudder with long chime), that couple with huge experience of the Sun Odyssey line (already used several, and they age well in my opinion).
That is reinforced by the generally good reviews for 410.
What would be the advantages and disadvantages of each other?
Thanks in advance!

[pcav]

JSO are notoriously just better built.

[pfaguiar]

Originally Posted by pcav

JSO are notoriously just better built.

Thanks for the feedback.
And thanks for QGIS. Use it everyday, genious work!

[pcav]

Glad you enjoy it!
In fact I'd like to extend QGIS to be used as a navigation aid; sooner or later I'll find the time for this - collaboration welcome!

[Ceeman]

Jeanneau does sail better. That is the reason why Jeanneau is my number one choice over Hanse