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Old 25-03-2020, 23:26   #16
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Re: Trailer Sailors - Why no stacking ideas?

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Originally Posted by wingssail View Post
Pretty much all ocean racing boats stack sails on deck, and shifting sails below deck is also common, some cruising boats might do so. I have on occasion but Judy is strongly opposed to my dragging sails and a deflated dingy back and forth on every tack ever since I threw my back out on it once short tacking up to Yacht Haven in Phuket (a bit of a narrow channel).

But as far a shifting stores and goods below deck...it's quite a stretch to imagine that it'd be worth the effort, and if those heavy crates of food and spare parts are that moveable, God, I can't image what they'd do in a knock down.

Stow the heavy stuff low and in the center, that's what I'd say.
I remember racing in the 80's where just before the race you'd see cushions, doors, tables, tools, anchors, etc, all being hauled up to cars. Everybody knew the rules, nobody seemed to care.

Another thing I despise is keelboat hiking. I know people that couldn't feel parts of their bodies for hours after sailing, and they said they know people that apparently have permanent nerve damage.

I read an article where someone had a trapeze boat (early sportboat) which the PHRF racing committee said he couldn't use the trapezes because it was dangerous. Let's see, each crew on a trapeze has his own wire. If one breaks you lose one crew. Lifeline breaks and your entire crew is overboard. I'm not getting the logic there.
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Old 26-03-2020, 08:41   #17
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Re: Trailer Sailors - Why no stacking ideas?

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I remember racing in the 80's where just before the race you'd see cushions, doors, tables, tools, anchors, etc, all being hauled up to cars. Everybody knew the rules, nobody seemed to care.

Another thing I despise is keelboat hiking. I know people that couldn't feel parts of their bodies for hours after sailing, and they said they know people that apparently have permanent nerve damage.

I read an article where someone had a trapeze boat (early sportboat) which the PHRF racing committee said he couldn't use the trapezes because it was dangerous. Let's see, each crew on a trapeze has his own wire. If one breaks you lose one crew. Lifeline breaks and your entire crew is overboard. I'm not getting the logic there.
Regarding hiking you are swimming against the tide. It is required to be competitive. You don't have to do it. Our boat has comfortable side decks to sit on. no discomfort is required.

You need more information to determine if that unloading is breaking a rule or not. In my area we have declared the gear and goods which must be carried. The rating is determined on this weight. We are permitted to remove other gear.

In ORC or ORR racing the boat is measured totally empty so removing gear is normal and expected if you want to be competitive.

Of course being competitive in racing requires a lot of inconvenience, but you don't have to do any of it, and you are not required to race.
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Old 26-03-2020, 10:30   #18
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Re: Trailer Sailors - Why no stacking ideas?

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Regarding hiking you are swimming against the tide. It is required to be competitive. You don't have to do it. Our boat has comfortable side decks to sit on. no discomfort is required.

You need more information to determine if that unloading is breaking a rule or not. In my area we have declared the gear and goods which must be carried. The rating is determined on this weight. We are permitted to remove other gear.

In ORC or ORR racing the boat is measured totally empty so removing gear is normal and expected if you want to be competitive.

Of course being competitive in racing requires a lot of inconvenience, but you don't have to do any of it, and you are not required to race.
The racing was PHRF, boat was to be sailed in normal condition, not stripped.

I quit keelboat racing because it made no sense to me. I happily spent more than a decade racing Hobie one design. Hanging out on a trapeze, flying a hull, passing 40 foot keelboats, no handicap, no changes allowed to the boat, no trimming a useless tallboy at 3 am, 1-2 hour races with relaxing in between, great parties Saturday night in a park or on a beach.

I once had an interesting conversation with a J24 racer. Said he could never race a Hobie because the class rules were so strict you have to buy the crap sails from Hobie. A few minutes later he was bemoaning the fact that he was always in the bottom third of the fleet because he couldn't afford to buy a new jib every 6 months as allowed by the class. Those fully battened sails from Hobie held their shape for years, and everyone had to deal with the same shape deficiencies.
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Old 26-03-2020, 10:50   #19
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Re: Trailer Sailors - Why no stacking ideas?

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I quit keelboat racing because it made no sense to me. I happily spent more than a decade racing Hobie one design. Hanging out on a trapeze, flying a hull, passing 40 foot keelboats, no handicap, no changes allowed to the boat, no trimming a useless tallboy at 3 am, 1-2 hour races with relaxing in between, great parties Saturday night in a park or on a beach.

I once had an interesting conversation with a J24 racer. Said he could never race a Hobie because the class rules were so strict you have to buy the crap sails from Hobie. A few minutes later he was bemoaning the fact that he was always in the bottom third of the fleet because he couldn't afford to buy a new jib every 6 months as allowed by the class. Those fully battened sails from Hobie held their shape for years, and everyone had to deal with the same shape deficiencies.

I'm not so crazy about keelboat racing either, even just as crew or railmeat. Just too much BS, tempers, etc, even on weeknight beercan racing. I admit I have enjoyed some longer-distance racing, but that's mainly a shared experience with some friends and not combat afloat. I do like dinghy/cat/windsurfer racing too, where it's all relatively equal and the craft are lively (and inexpensive).

I'm much happier just going "out" these days - fast or slow, as the mood takes me. Much better for the brain. Though I admit that I will often race other boats i encounter, even if they're not aware that they're in a race.
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Old 26-03-2020, 10:51   #20
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Re: Trailer Sailors - Why no stacking ideas?

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Originally Posted by cal40john View Post
The racing was PHRF, boat was to be sailed in normal condition, not stripped.

I quit keelboat racing because it made no sense to me. I happily spent more than a decade racing Hobie one design. Hanging out on a trapeze, flying a hull, passing 40 foot keelboats, no handicap, no changes allowed to the boat, no trimming a useless tallboy at 3 am, 1-2 hour races with relaxing in between, great parties Saturday night in a park or on a beach.

I once had an interesting conversation with a J24 racer. Said he could never race a Hobie because the class rules were so strict you have to buy the crap sails from Hobie. A few minutes later he was bemoaning the fact that he was always in the bottom third of the fleet because he couldn't afford to buy a new jib every 6 months as allowed by the class. Those fully battened sails from Hobie held their shape for years, and everyone had to deal with the same shape deficiencies.
cal40john, I certainly understand your love of one design Hobie racing. But I would ask you to walk in some other's shoes for a moment:

We are live aboard boaters. That is our choice and our life. We do not have a house. Our boat is our house. We travel from place to place on our boat: a circumnavigation and more than 35 countries. We are, in fact, preparing for another extended cruise today.

But we love racing, it is another passion of ours. We cannot keep a Hobie or any other sailing dingy on our deck or ashore or at our house or in an adjacent berth. None of those options fit with our cruising/liveaboard life style. Besides, we love the big boat racing we do, with a full crew or Jack and Jill. For us racing is not just the thrill of speed flying a hull on a Hobie. It is also climbing to weather, using the wind and tides and geography, and knowing we can continue to race all the way to Hawaii if we want or setting a spinnaker on a broad reach and watching the stern wave build astern of us.

So keel boat racing, on our own boat, which we have done for 34 years, works for us.

If you have a house or a permanent berth with shore side facilities, and you can afford it, I am sure the one design competition works for you.

But when you say you can't see how it makes any sense, expand your view.
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Old 26-03-2020, 18:17   #21
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Re: Trailer Sailors - Why no stacking ideas?

String a hammock inside the cabin, fill it with stuff. Have a traveller line set up to pull hammock to windward. Might also assist in roll tacking the boat
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Old 26-03-2020, 20:47   #22
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Re: Trailer Sailors - Why no stacking ideas?

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String a hammock inside the cabin, fill it with stuff. Have a traveller line set up to pull hammock to windward. Might also assist in roll tacking the boat
Pirate bunks. I can dig it.
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Old 26-03-2020, 21:54   #23
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Re: Trailer Sailors - Why no stacking ideas?

Gday Adrian, I am a tad confused by your question as one you start off with mini transits. I would not consider a mini transat as a normal trailer sailer. We have owned and sailed many miles on several different Trailers Yachts we have owned including lake and short coastal hops. Its is surprising how much room you do have to store including under the cockpit which really balances the boat and assists in ballast. Most times we just stored gear on the settee's or on the forward V berth. Anything awkward was put on the sole in the cabin and then put out in the cockpt when anchored. As a cruising boat the sails were limited to gib/genoa on the forstaty and main which always was packed and secured on the boom. We had up to four or five on board when sailing and it was never an issue. Racing is a differnt matter with a lot of the gear we had when cruising removed from the boat.


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