Jeanneau and Beneteau

[MicHughV]

sad to say.....but even Beneteau has felt the heat...

Groupe Beneteau to close Marion facility that it opened in ...scnow.com › news › local › groupe-beneteau-to-close-ma...

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Pete7

Gibsea or Feeling perhaps ?

Gibsea actually

[Barra]

One of the key implications of the assembly line approach of the bennys, jennys etc is the use of the internal moulded lining glued to the hull. A second internal hull if you like.

Its a pretty crucial difference from a longevity and strength point of view. Not a deal breaker but certainly one you should make sure you are happy with before proceeding down this path.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Gibsea actually

Absorbed by Dufour..

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Barra

One of the key implications of the assembly line approach of the bennys, jennys etc is the use of the internal moulded lining glued to the hull. A second internal hull if you like.



Its a pretty crucial difference from a longevity and strength point of view. Not a deal breaker but certainly one you should make sure you are happy with before proceeding down this path.

It depends. In general it’s very strong the issue is it’s harder to repair properly when it does fail. This is true of many advanced manufacturing systems.

The truth is that European environmental and safety at work legislation will eventually prevent open moulding completely and in fact will limit human exposure to Styrene and polyester resins . It will get increasing difficult for “ boutique “ builders to use traditional fibreglass assembly and this will make it difficult for them to change to more modern but much more capital intensive solutions.

The future for ( the remaining ) sub 50 foot high end yacht builders isnt rosy at all

[Barra]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

It depends. In general it’s very strong the issue is it’s harder to repair properly when it does fail. This is true of many advanced manufacturing systems.

The truth is that European environmental and safety at work legislation will eventually prevent open moulding completely and in fact will limit human exposure to Styrene and polyester resins . It will get increasing difficult for “ boutique “ builders to use traditional fibreglass assembly and this will make it difficult for them to change to more modern but much more capital intensive solutions.

The future for ( the remaining ) sub 50 foot high end yacht builders isnt rosy at all

Interesting regulatory changes - so the manufacturing shifts to South Africa and Asia even more so I suppose.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Barra

Interesting regulatory changes - so the manufacturing shifts to South Africa and Asia even more so I suppose.

Not really , just like many buyers buy BMW precisely because it’s built in Germany , it would be folly for HR to abandon its Swedish base.

The bigger builders like Groupe Beneteau can upscale to meet the challenges and install the tech needed etc. ( they often have the lobbying weight to influence things also )

The way the boat building industry is going, is either automate and innovate , or end up with extremely expensive labour intensive products. The latter has not been a great success in recent years as labour costs and skills issues in western countries has worked against the model

( its worth noting that US companies building yachts offshore in Asia had terrible times marketing its products in Europe)

[MicHughV]

I wonder how this Covid thing is playing out with the boat builders.

From where I stand, the sailboat activity has ground to a near standstill.

Yachtworld is packed to the brim with used boats, most with discounted prices.

How do you convince someone to buy a new boat, when there is such a plethora of used boats to pick from...most at very attractive prices as compared to a new boat.

Area marina's in my neck of the woods are...maybe....at 50% capacity...and of that number, only a small percentage are sailboats.

And marina rates are going up. Slip fees are starting to become exorbitant....and if you don't use your boat or live on your boat, that is starting to take a big chunk out of a depleted paycheck. Your average 40' sailboat slip is now at $600-700/month, plus taxes, environmental fees, electric, etc. Down in south Florida it is even more expensive...plus insurance....tack on another $50...plus maintenance...haulouts, etc..and if you are making boat payments....add that to the above..and let's not forget sales tax when you buy the boat....that can add another $10,000 to your boat purchase.

Anchoring has become harder...it's all mooring fields now....figure on $15/day...etc

Sailboats are typically a depreciating asset......and now, with such a large inventory of used boats, trying to sell a boat has become difficult. A quick sale requires a very attractive price otherwise your boat can sit for a very long time.

When all is said and done, the selling price of a boat is but one factor to consider.

[flightlead404]

Originally Posted by Fbfisher

FYI, these days, even Porsches are built on an assembly line. Lowering production costs by standardization does not necessarily produce a lower quality product. Fit and finish are important, as are the components, standing and running rigging. Off brand or undersized components would also lead to lower cost, but you don’t see much of that.

Yeah, if you were talking pre-2000 or maybe a little earlier Porsche. Today they not only are churned out like Nissans, but they have the (lack of) character of Nissan as well.

But then I drive a Widow Maker with 150% extra horsepower

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by MicHughV

I wonder how this Covid thing is playing out with the boat builders.

From where I stand, the sailboat activity has ground to a near standstill.

Yachtworld is packed to the brim with used boats, most with discounted prices.

How do you convince someone to buy a new boat, when there is such a plethora of used boats to pick from...most at very attractive prices as compared to a new boat.

Area marina's in my neck of the woods are...maybe....at 50% capacity...and of that number, only a small percentage are sailboats.

And marina rates are going up. Slip fees are starting to become exorbitant....and if you don't use your boat or live on your boat, that is starting to take a big chunk out of a depleted paycheck. Your average 40' sailboat slip is now at $600-700/month, plus taxes, environmental fees, electric, etc. Down in south Florida it is even more expensive...plus insurance....tack on another $50...plus maintenance...haulouts, etc..and if you are making boat payments....add that to the above..and let's not forget sales tax when you buy the boat....that can add another $10,000 to your boat purchase.

Anchoring has become harder...it's all mooring fields now....figure on $15/day...etc

Sailboats are typically a depreciating asset......and now, with such a large inventory of used boats, trying to sell a boat has become difficult. A quick sale requires a very attractive price otherwise your boat can sit for a very long time.

When all is said and done, the selling price of a boat is but one factor to consider.

I’m not sure what your basing your experience on. I bought a new to me boat in October last , having sold my own one. Yes there was more boats for sake but this was because boats were selling fast and that attracted sellers to list.

In Greece the brokers said they sold more boats in 4 months then the last 4 years and in fact they were shipping boats from Greece to the Netherlands because there was a severe shortage of boats.

I would not say prices were lower , if anything based on my own sale , prices were similar 2019 but “ harder “ I had two buyers bidding on my boat in August and actually drove the price up.


Agree totally re slip costs. But this was never a cheap hobby

[Fbfisher]

Originally Posted by flightlead404

Yeah, if you were talking pre-2000 or maybe a little earlier Porsche...But then I drive a Widow Maker with 150% extra horsepower

I’ve had three 911’s, including a ‘97 993, which as you correctly said were hand built. This was followed by a 997 GTS and then a 997S. I’m guessing you’re referring to a GT2. I’ve had the pleasure of driving one, and the terror of being a passenger.

Sorry for taking this thread a bit off topic.

[Deanosc]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

You will notice that mass manufacturers of yachts have stayed with the major fitments brands , so on HR you’ll see Lewmar , spinlock, seldon,harken , etc. And equally youll see all these brands on benneys , bavs etc , same with engines etc.

This is because beneteau at a group level can buy this stuff at far less cost then HR ,they can also influence such manufacturers to build product ranges that suit their price points and assembly processes not to mention changing their products to suit the latest “fashion “. Boutique boats have to largely resort to accepting what they can get.

Ok thank you and thank you for the detailed answer above also. There is so much to consider when buying especially on a budget haha I am glad there are so many knowledgeable people that are also so helpful here.

[MicHughV]

Interestingly, when the Covid thing hit here, dealers could not keep up with the demand for your basic center console fishing boat and other smaller type power cruisers. Folks were bored sitting at home, so took to the water..but sailboat sales were practically nil, as cruising destinations shut down.
Now, the reality of feeding gas to these fishing boats, etc, has hit home, and I see some limited movement in the sailboat market again as all these fishing boats are hitting the used boat market. For a while there, the Bahamas had closed their doors to the yachtie, but now open again.

Light at the end of the tunnel ?? Let's hope so.....

[grahamj]

Originally Posted by MicHughV

but sailboat sales were practically nil, as cruising destinations shut down.

Sales are through the roof all over the world. Best year for the brokers in a decade and a half. Inventory is less than half of what it was prior to covid and what is left is comparatively rough and/or overpriced.
Difficult to reconcile your view with the reality in the marketplace.

[Fbfisher]

Originally Posted by grahamj

Sales are through the roof all over the world. Best year for the brokers in a decade and a half. Inventory is less than half of what it was prior to covid and what is left is comparatively rough and/or overpriced.
Difficult to reconcile your view with the reality in the marketplace.

Agree, I’ve seen several sailboats all around me change hands, I have a friend looking for a 36-38’ sailboat and unable to find one in good shape and priced right. The next to me, an early/mid-80’s Catalina 36’ in decent condition had been on the market for over two years. It just sold for $50K. The buyer flew in from Las Vegas, looked at it and bought it. Broker friends are thrilled with the hottest market they’ve seen in decades. Their lament, “no inventory.”