*old* Catalina sailor looking for advice on express cruisers

[Andromitto]

Good Afternoon All,

First time poster here, looking for some advice. A quick intro, I’m in my thirties and have spent considerable time on traditional sailboats in New England. I consider myself a traditional sailor, and would love for my next boat purchase to get another larger craft for distance cruising. However, my wife prefers powerboats for their convenience and would rather have a small sailboat for weekend cruising and something powered for long cruises. I’ve been looking at express cruisers such as the Sea Ray Sundancer and had some general questions but figured I would see what was even feasible as I have little knowledge of power boats apart from driving them occasionally with a tube in tow.

Can an express cruiser do long distance coastal cruising, such as Baltimore MD to Portland Maine? Is this realistic? Or will it get beat to smithereens on Long Island Sound? I can realistically afford about a 40-45 foot express cruiser. I’ve researched performance numbers (my god the fuel costs alone) It seems technically feasible, but can these boats handle that kind of sailing? Or should I look at something like a trawler instead? This will effectively be our primary vacation ‘home’ for as many years as we can manage, so I want to make the right purchase. I’ve handled large sailboats before, so a large power boat doesn’t scare me, however, I’m a novice to their overall capabilities. My plan was to get a captain for a few hours and some lessons in the nuances of these vessels.

V/R

-M

[CaptTom]

I owned a smaller (30') express cruiser for 10 years, home port on the coast of Maine. We went from New Jersey to Nova Scotia in it. So the answer to your first question is yes, it can be done.

If you're going for the 40-50' range, then even more so. The last 50' express cruiser I ran was more like a floating palace. Ran it from Connecticut to Florida, offshore all the way. No problems at all.

Now, some hard realities. You mentioned fuel. That 50'er burned almost 70GPH at cruise. There seems to be a sweet spot around a couple of gallons per mile on plane for boats in that 40-50' size range.

If you drop down to hull speed (7-8 knots) you can bump that up to 1-3 nautical miles per gallon.

We eventually moved from our express cruiser to a trawler-style hull. The express cruiser only had a range of around 100 miles, and in some fishing ports it's easier to get diesel than gasoline. So I wanted a diesel boat with longer range. I already owned a 36' slip, so I found one that has all the amenities of a 40'er packed into a 36' hull.

Every once in a while I miss being able to hop up on plane and get there fast, but those perfect weather days when that would be comfortable are few and far between.

[two-rocks]

Express cruisers are not for long cruises, we have been there and done that. They are perfect for marina to marina. We despise marinas, so I am not a good resource.

You go fast to quickly relax, then repeat. With lots of fuel stops in the middle. The most we ever paid was over $6/gal on Nantucket. We never cared, as it was our summer activity/vacation/etc... you absolutely can not buy a power boat and worry about the cost of fuel.

In our opinion, they don't do much well (express cruisers) except get you there ASAP. Not good at anchor, not good in bad weather, not good under way, you'll need AC for the marina, then you start to wonder why you are there at all.

[Andromitto]

Thank you for the information. That’s very helpful. I’ve just kinda accepted fuel costs as part of the package at this point. Although it sounds like there is something to be said for a smaller vessel if it will do, powered with diesels.

[CaptTom]

For the record, we loved our express cruiser. We had five people living on it (30') for almost three weeks once. The two of us could easily have stayed on it longer, and gone anywhere which didn't require crossing oceans, had I not been still working at the time.

The movements are different. Our little express cruiser was a light boat, and had a lively motion at a slip. It was better at anchor, facing into the wind or current. It had a sharp V aft (21.5 degrees of deadrise) which helped. A boat with twin engines usually has a flatter deadrise. On plane, it could skip across the chop, but it could be a jarring ride.

The trawler hull rolls pretty badly, at anchor or in a slip. A different motion, but just as annoying. There are things you can do to attenuate the roll, but it's an issue. Your other choice is to always stay in quiet waters. No fun in that!

It is certainly possible to run a faster boat at a slower speed and get "trawler" fuel mileage. But it takes a lot of discipline.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, there are always compromises, regardless of which hull style you choose. First and foremost, think about what you're going to be DOING on the boat. Do you enjoy sunbathing or fishing? You need large outside spaces. Prefer to stay in out of the weather? Go for large accommodations inside. Do you cook a lot? Prefer to go out to eat? Do you want to anchor a lot? Stay in marinas? Travel all the time? Stay put and get to know a location?

A couple more thoughts: We hated the "wet head" (shower in the toilet room) on the express cruiser. A separate shower became a requirement. A second head was also high on the list. It would be nice to have a washer and dryer, but we don't (yet.)

[rslifkin]

I'll agree with those saying express cruisers aren't great for actually going places, as many are really intended as weekend party cruisers. Some of the big ones are ok in terms of cabin space, but 40 feet and down, not so much typically. However, you can still get a fast-ish boat that can travel well.

My boat, for example, has great cabin space for a 38 footer (easily as good as any trawler this size). And it planes nicely, not the "can kinda plane if you beat on it" that some faster trawlers do. It'll do 17 kts until the fuel tanks are empty. Speaking of which, at 26k lbs with gas engines, that happens fast even though it carries a good bit more fuel than a typical express cruiser. I figure about 0.55 - 0.6 nmpg on plane at 17 - 18 kts and about 1.1 - 1.3 nmpg at 6.5 - 7 kts going slow. Diesels would improve that to around 0.9 nmpg on plane and 2.5 - 3 nmpg at low speed by my best estimate.

In terms of roll comfort, my boat has a fairly quick, snappy roll. Not terrible, but definitely nothing like a sailboat. It's not quite as cork-like as most express cruisers, but close to it. In an anchorage without excessive boat wakes (or if you're pointed into the wakes) or at the dock the motion is plenty comfortable.

[rslifkin]

As a note on handling some rough water, even in the express cruiser world there are plenty of planing hulls that'll handle rough water reasonably. Some will be more comfortable than others in various conditions and some boat / condition combinations will be particularly sensitive to how well you're running the boat. It's not like a sailboat in terms of the range of conditions you can run comfortably in, but extra speed can make it easier to choose windows of more comfortable conditions.

[Andromitto]

This is great information. Thank you everyone. My final question is brand/price. For our needs, we basically want it for long weekend trips and the occasional long cruise down the coast. Regular use would be for three or four day weekends hopping islands in New England.

Like anything, I’m sure it’s a get what you pay for scenario. My research has pointed me towards SeaRay Sundancers, but I could only reasonably afford one that’s 7 years old or so... I’ve seen other brands that are new or nearly new in this price point, For a comparable size vessel what do you folks recommend I consider at this range (120k ...ish,)something like a used Sea Ray or perhaps a nearly new or new Rinker or Bayliner? Or is this too low to be realistic for a quality boat in this class?

[ranger58sb]

A 40-45' express cruiser should absolutely do what you want. You'd likely gravitate toward picking your weather windows, but many of us do that anyway.

Tiara and Cruisers would be other brands to look at. Maybe Regal. There are also some more "downeast" style options; Sabre, MJM, Back Cove. Hinckley, etc. (some of those are $$$) Have a rummage through Yachtworld and see what strikes your fancy...

Not Rinker, I think, nor Four Winns. And large (enough) Bayliners were more like sedan/bridge boats, with flybridge, etc.; the small ones are relatively lightweight, I don't remember anything large enough for your purposes.

-Chris

[rslifkin]

If you don't feel the need to buy something as new as possible, there are lots of good, capable boats that can be found in good condition for $120k. I'd take a look at a few of the boat listing websites and see what types of boats come up in your size and price range. Then you can try to figure out which style, etc. you'd prefer.

[rsn48]

So you will get different advise from folks who live in different areas. Out here on the West coast, from Seattle into BC and into Alaska, cruisers go long distances on just about anything. You don't need great range, only good range as you will travelling in "hops" not straight cruising through, though of course you can do that as well. On my express cruiser with 160 gallon tanks, if I do 7 - 9 knots I can go roughly 550 miles. These lower speeds are standard for sailors and trawler owners. The issue becomes do you want to go slower.

When your boat is capable of greater speeds often you can do things (in my area) that will hold up the trawler guys. So for example, last August of 2019 I helped a friend out and moving his boat from Nanaimo to Comox (Vancouver Island area, BC). At a 7 knot pace over 51.6 nautical miles (56.8 miles) the trip would have taken 7.22 hours but we arrived in just over 3.45 hours.

The reason for our haste other than we didn't really want to take over 7 hours is that we knew on that day the wind was going to build in the afternoon to unpleasant 25 knots or more. There was no "danger" but we would be slammed about a bit. For most trawler owners they wouldn't go out in these conditions or maybe do just half the trip and pull in. Many trawlers really swing around in winds in excess of 20 knots. We can do faster hops and spend more time at the marina or on anchor enjoying our trip versus mucking about in not fun weather.

So with my boat I could easily go from Seattle to Ketchican Alaska but it would be a series of hops. Very few set out from Seattle and cruise non stop to Alaska, I want to say no one but as soon as I do some guy is going to say - oh yeah, will John Smith did it three years ago.

I'm going to give you one link, its about a company (small) called Slowboat. What they do is take cruisers on legs up to Alaska, teach them how to do it and what you need to be prepared for with wind, currents, rapids, etc. At one point the type of boat you need is discussed. If you were to take a sailboat (and this is discussed) you will be guaranteed to be sitting in the rain for extended periods. Ketchikan in July gets more rain than Seattle in November and that's saying something:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...ature=emb_logo

[Al B]

DId not see my reply from earlier today so here goes again
I have one of the 30 x press cruisers
IF your going too do any serious boating then I don't recommend them
Fuel burn will be around 1 gallon a mile
Any boat can be a fishing boat but express cruiser is not designed for the fisherman ,
Manufactures package 2 engines , generator , hot water tank , batteries
into a 9.6 beam , Preforming general repairs challenging , Knuckle bleeders
I am fortunate , I have a 3 axle trailer ., Don't trailer often only too take inland too a shop , Too much boat too single handle towing , a royal
pain , so I leave in a wet slip here in Fl
On these express cruisers almost impossible too work on engines ,
Can be done but really challenging for adult ,
My 17 year old grandson helps me often . He can get too areas I cant
Shop I use for repairs I cant is set up too pull engines , work on them in the air ,re-install ,
Easier too do that , faster , then trying fix in place
Recently my Generator needed rebuild , had too pull port engine ,
Pull gen set , take too shop , re install then re install engine
COSLTY process
All tanks are buried under floor , if repairs needed most times a huge whole must be cut out too get too fuel , waste , fresh ,
Aft cabin is small , on my boat waisted valuable space that is used for storage
wiring buried
So in closing , there is no prefect boat ,
When searching have a manufacture and model U prefer , makes life easier
Many want twin screw , all depends on your boating I am seldom far off shore , most times I boat ICW , Any problems 1800- SEA TOW is my motto
Double engines , double the trouble , Rather have one big block
Don't settle for pretty frills

good luck

[Moosemiester]

A lot of good advice here. On Lake Erie/St. Clair the Sea Ray express cruisers are everywhere. The ones with CAT 3208’s are preferable.

Awesome on a plane on typical Great Lakes chop. Great to sit in the slip and host guests. Crazy expensive to run/fix, can be challenging to move around down below with all that open space. While you can run them at slow speed, they tend to wander about when not on plane.

That being said the wisdom around here is “The louder the engines, the smaller the bikinis” so I suppose it all depends on what you’re going for.... :-)

[Lost Horizons]

Originally Posted by Andromitto

This is great information. Thank you everyone. My final question is brand/price. For our needs, we basically want it for long weekend trips and the occasional long cruise down the coast. Regular use would be for three or four day weekends hopping islands in New England.

Like anything, I’m sure it’s a get what you pay for scenario. My research has pointed me towards SeaRay Sundancers, but I could only reasonably afford one that’s 7 years old or so... I’ve seen other brands that are new or nearly new in this price point, For a comparable size vessel what do you folks recommend I consider at this range (120k ...ish,)something like a used Sea Ray or perhaps a nearly new or new Rinker or Bayliner? Or is this too low to be realistic for a quality boat in this class?

I never had a power boat bigger than an 11 foot inflatable with a 15 HP Yamaha outboard, but I spent a few years heavily researching the possibility and here are some points. For the majority of users, an express cruiser is a very good choice, close to ideal. You don’t have much time to cruise at displacement speeds, so you need to move fast, and you can chose the weather. They should be able to do well in a bad weather too with low windage and limited glass windows, which is a good advantage over the so called trawlers and motor yachts.
There are three negatives from my perspective with them: 1) they do not have rudders, just tiny pieces of flat metal deflectors, so I do not expect them to keep course well at low speeds on autopilot. 2) they have very limited deck space for cruising gear. Some have a hydraulic swim platform to accommodate a dinghy, which would be a definite requirement for me. 3) most of them would be very difficult to dock singlehanded, for there is a long way from the helm to the mid-ship cleat, and with many models the only way to reach a cleat on a dock is from the swim platform.

Brand wise, I would probably want a Tiara, but unfortunately they switched to Volvo pod drives at some point, which eliminated them from my list of candidates. Recent Sea Rays also used pod drives before switching back to shafts at some point. I would prioritize straight shaft drive over a name brand and also try to avoid v-drives if possible. If not keeping the boat in the water, pod drives may be acceptable, particularly if you are not planning to go far.