Why is the CG Unintelligible When They are on the Radio?

[carstenb]

WE now sailing in the US and we frequently hear the USCG on the radio. Despite being a European, I am a native english (american) speaker. The USCG broadcasts are unintelligible.

1 - They are speedtalkers like I've never heard before - they literally are talking so fast that even I can't follow what they say.

2- They almost all hold the mike much too close to their mouths and that also makes the speech impossible to decipher.

Don't they get radio training? When I went to radio school I was taught (and tested in) speaking in a normal voice and speed, enunciating clearly and making sure I finished enunciating each word correctly. I was also taught to hold the mike away from my mouth so my breath didn't sound in the mike and finally I was taught to speak slowly.

I was also taught that vitally important information, such as position, should be repeated to ensure that it was correctly understood - the USCG never does this


Yesterday, sailing in the San Juans, the USCG put out a PAN PAN. The Guardsman was speedtalking so fast that there was no way to understand and be able to jot down the position he was giving where there were persons in the water. We were in the vicinity, but because he was so unclear, we couldn't determine if we were close enough to help.


Does anyone know why they are incompetent to use a radio? It must be a lack of training - but why no training?

By the way - we had this experience with virtually every CG radio signal we heard and we've heard lots

[tomfl]

Never had a problem understanding any USCG peeps.

[Lepke]

Maybe there's something wrong with your radio or speaker.
I don't hear well, have hearing aids, but rarely wear them. I have no problem with USCG messages or communicating with them, with or without the hearing aids.

[sailorboy1]

Yes the regular announcements are like something to get over with. The only thing to do if you think it effects you is to respond and ask them to repeat it.

[Snore]

Originally Posted by carstenb

WE now sailing in the US and we frequently hear the USCG on the radio. Despite being a European, I am a native english (american) speaker. The USCG broadcasts are unintelligible.



1 - They are speedtalkers like I've never heard before - they literally are talking so fast that even I can't follow what they say.



2- They almost all hold the mike much too close to their mouths and that also makes the speech impossible to decipher.



Don't they get radio training? When I went to radio school I was taught (and tested in) speaking in a normal voice and speed, enunciating clearly and making sure I finished enunciating each word correctly. I was also taught to hold the mike away from my mouth so my breath didn't sound in the mike and finally I was taught to speak slowly.



I was also taught that vitally important information, such as position, should be repeated to ensure that it was correctly understood - the USCG never does this





Yesterday, sailing in the San Juans, the USCG put out a PAN PAN. The Guardsman was speedtalking so fast that there was no way to understand and be able to jot down the position he was giving where there were persons in the water. We were in the vicinity, but because he was so unclear, we couldn't determine if we were close enough to help.





Does anyone know why they are incompetent to use a radio? It must be a lack of training - but why no training?



By the way - we had this experience with virtually every CG radio signal we heard and we've heard lots

YES!!!

Don’t get me started! Sector Miami used to be one of the worst. But they have improved.

I firmly believe that some announcements are recorded and simply played back.

What I have done on a few occasions is radioed for clarification. If I think in am by a PAN-PAN location it would stink to miss them. Same for nav issues

[Orion Jim]

Same in southern New England. Mostly it’s young girls speaking way too fast and not enunciating. Some voices are suited to radio work and some are not.

[BlackHeron]

East Coast radio procedure it is horrible too. THESE are the best kids they could find? Give me a break. It is embarrassing how poor the vast majority of them are on the air

Thank goodness for BoatUS. Those wre the guys who will save your boat, since they are are actually getting paid by the client at market prices, and they don't show up with a loaded machinegun on the bow all manned and ready to blow you out of the water. Priorities...

The USCG is a hot mess, and like the USPS they are well past their good-by date.

[redneckrob]

I spent probably literally hundreds of hours having conversations with Coast Guard RMs/TCs/OSs (they kept changing the designation of the rate of the people manning the radios) since they dispatched us on SAR cases, handle all the comms during a case, and had a radio guard with us pretty much every flight (I was a Coast Guard helicopter pilot). I never had any issue understanding them unless they were asking us to do something stupid, at which point I admit there was sometimes just too much static for me to be able to properly understand them so I could comply

I think the issue is that they forget they're not talking to professionals with a common vocabulary, let alone first language, all the time. I far prefer them to talk fast, it lets me focus on flying the helicopter instead of waiting for them to spit it out. But you're right, they need to realize that the German couple that happens to be a couple miles away from the reported distress point they're making a Pan Pan call about needs to be able to understand them and that requires them to slow down and articulate. I'd highly encourage you to call into whatever sector you experience this with, ask for the supervisor and explain exactly that. Do it professionally and caveated that you're trying to help their watchstander improve and you'll probably be thanked for it. We can all use some outside feedback every now and then.

[Creedence]

They aren’t. But they do not seem to cater to the needs of non-professional/non-military users, and that’s where I think I can find common ground with your concern.

As a former close air attack helicopter pilot in the Army, air-ground integration was EVERYTHING, and getting the MILSPEC (using that term somewhat tongue in cheek here) radio speaking cadence (seemingly fast to the uninitiated) was a vital part of the foundation of effective radio communications. The purpose of that is so when a life-threatening situation occurs, communication is appropriately rapid, and appropriately succinct so there are no “ummms, uhhhs, or needless topical expansion when seconds mean everything.

To your point, they do not modulate from that radio technique to a more deliberate, perhaps even colloquial “civilian friendly” method with their public broadcasts.

Could they, should they? Perhaps, and that’s worth debate here. But don’t confuse a very specific (and deeply engrained technique) with a lack of proper training.

It doesn’t suit our needs as recreational boaters, but it’s not that way by accident. You’ll find all other branches of the DoD, law enforcement, and other first responders’ radio communications even less intelligible.

[Snore]

Originally Posted by redneckrob

I spent probably literally hundreds of hours having conversations with Coast Guard RMs/TCs/OSs (they kept changing the designation of the rate of the people manning the radios) since they dispatched us on SAR cases, handle all the comms during a case, and had a radio guard with us pretty much every flight (I was a Coast Guard helicopter pilot). I never had any issue understanding them unless they were asking us to do something stupid, at which point I admit there was sometimes just too much static for me to be able to properly understand them so I could comply

I think the issue is that they forget they're not talking to professionals with a common vocabulary, let alone first language, all the time. I far prefer them to talk fast, it lets me focus on flying the helicopter instead of waiting for them to spit it out. But you're right, they need to realize that the German couple that happens to be a couple miles away from the reported distress point they're making a Pan Pan call about needs to be able to understand them and that requires them to slow down and articulate. I'd highly encourage you to call into whatever sector you experience this with, ask for the supervisor and explain exactly that. Do it professionally and caveated that you're trying to help their watchstander improve and you'll probably be thanked for it. We can all use some outside feedback every now and then.

Rob you are right and wrong. I have had to converse with the Coasties in some urgent situations. Yes when we are one-on-one keep it short and proper. And sorry but NIMS training specifically precludes the use of jargon.

On the other hand as a delivery guy I get to listen to every PAN-PAN and SECURITE, repeatedly. It is part of the penance of a coastal run.

Some of those broadcasts are useless and border on unintelligible. Keep in mind the recipient is out sailing or listening to the drone of the engines. They hear a a PAN-PAN. I would guess the whole broadcast WITH Lat/Lon is done is 15-25 seconds. Hell I can barely get catch the degrees and min to see if I am close.

The other craziness is a SECURITE call and using a local Nickname. Something like “submerged log by pickle island”. A transiting boat has no idea where pickle island is. How about a lat/Lon! Once again, if I a nearshore I will radio for the location.

PS- not looking to debate. Just hope that a coastie officer reads this post and maybe makes some changes

[Creedence]

Originally Posted by Snore

Rob you are right and wrong. I have had to converse with the Coasties in some urgent situations. Yes when we are one-on-one keep it short and proper. And sorry but NIMS training specifically precludes the use of jargon.

On the other hand as a delivery guy I get to listen to every PAN-PAN and SECURITE, repeatedly. It is part of the penance of a coastal run.

Some of those broadcasts are useless and border on unintelligible. Keep in mind the recipient is out sailing or listening to the drone of the engines. They hear a a PAN-PAN. I would guess the whole broadcast WITH Lat/Lon is done is 15-25 seconds. Hell I can barely get catch the degrees and min to see if I am close.

The other craziness is a SECURITE call and using a local Nickname. Something like “submerged log by pickle island”. A transiting boat has no idea where pickle island is. How about a lat/Lon! Once again, if I a nearshore I will radio for the location.

PS- not looking to debate. Just hope that a coastie officer reads this post and maybe makes some changes

I nominate Pickle Island as the site for Cruiserforums’ first annual Captain Ron viewing festival.

[BlackHeron]

Maybe you can understand what they are saying perfectly well in government-spec high-end noise cancelling aircraft radio earphones in your helicopter way up there in the air with a good clean signal.

But down on the water here with the engine running in the background it is all mumble-mumble-mumble static whomp whomp whomp static crunch squawk.

Ground to ground radio transmissions are always a bit iffy at longer ranges on VHF. That is why they make the CG radio operators say some important things THREE TIMES. So if there is interference or just a long distance with a weak signal at least one of those times it can be copied clearly

Instead they obviously HATE having to say it three times so they say it once really fast then it is Mumble Mumble Mumble to get it over with the second and third times as quickly as possible.

Mostly it is like a the peanuts cartoon when the adults are talking to the kids. All unintelligible trombone sounds

Over the radio you need to talk SLOWLY and ENUNCIATE. Those kids just dont get it. Might as well not monitor ch. 16 because the GC transmissions are mostly worthless noise.

[Creedence]

Originally Posted by BlackHeron

Maybe you can understand what they are saying perfectly well in government-spec high-end noise cancelling aircraft radio earphones in your helicopter way up there in the air with a good clean signal.

But down on the water here with the engine running in the background it is all mumble-mumble-mumble static whomp whomp whomp static crunch squawk.

Ground to ground radio transmissions are always a bit iffy at longer ranges on VHF. That is why they make the CG radio operators say some important things THREE TIMES. So if there is interference or just a long distance with a weak signal at least one of those times it can be copied clearly

Instead they obviously HATE having to say it three times so they say it once really fast then it is Mumble Mumble Mumble to get it over with the second and third times as quickly as possible.

Mostly it is like a the peanuts cartoon when the adults are talking to the kids. All unintelligible trombone sounds

Over the radio you need to talk SLOWLY and ENUNCIATE. Those kids just dont get it. Might as well not monitor ch. 16 because the GC transmissions are mostly worthless noise.

I’m not sharing my opinion, I’m just sharing the background of why you’re seeing what you’re seeing.

The only thing that made me spit my beer out my nose was the high end noise cancelling aircraft radio earphones!!!! My God, I have the world’s worst case of tenitus from those years flying. The cool F22 fighters may get the neat stuff, but think 1987 technology and you’ve got the Army Aviation community figured out. And talk about engines running?! I’m not laughing at your reply, but I’m laughing at the absurdity of the setup we dealt with. Unless our boats are powered by 2x 1200 shaft horsepower turbine engines no more than 9’ behind our heads, I promise you, recreation boat noise does not compare.


I have to take the “way up in the air thing as a personal insult too unfortunately. 50’ AGL (above ground level) is where you wanted to be in Iraq and Afghanistan. (The insult part- also a joke, but the altitude thing isn’t). There are many more parallels to sailing comms than you’d think.

You just brought back many “fond” memories with that. But I promise you, they way they speak is a trained behavior. But I do agree with you, it’s not really useful for the layperson (which is all of us recreational boaters). You have a valid concern. I just don’t want it to be mistaken as a lack of training. It’s just not the right technique for this community which devalues their messages.

But more important than anything I asserted, audit some law enforcement and first responder radio communications if you prefer that parallel. You’ll find them similarly unintelligible. For the reason I outline in the previous post. There’s a valid reason for it, but it doesn’t translate to our hobby all that well.

And believe me, it’s not because they are “kids”. Many of them are in the 30s-40s performing that function. I’m not saying they are our nation’s elders, but they are far more trained in radio communications than even the best recreational boater. Unless you took that one BoatUS course.... (jokes)

[redneckrob]

Originally Posted by Snore

Rob you are right and wrong. I have had to converse with the Coasties in some urgent situations. Yes when we are one-on-one keep it short and proper. And sorry but NIMS training specifically precludes the use of jargon.

On the other hand as a delivery guy I get to listen to every PAN-PAN and SECURITE, repeatedly. It is part of the penance of a coastal run.

Some of those broadcasts are useless and border on unintelligible. Keep in mind the recipient is out sailing or listening to the drone of the engines. They hear a a PAN-PAN. I would guess the whole broadcast WITH Lat/Lon is done is 15-25 seconds. Hell I can barely get catch the degrees and min to see if I am close.

The other craziness is a SECURITE call and using a local Nickname. Something like “submerged log by pickle island”. A transiting boat has no idea where pickle island is. How about a lat/Lon! Once again, if I a nearshore I will radio for the location.

PS- not looking to debate. Just hope that a coastie officer reads this post and maybe makes some changes

I actually completely agreed with you AND provided a suggestion for making the situation better. Maybe read my entire post?

And yeah, no noise canceling headsets in my day, just double hearing protection with the foam inserts and the helmet against decibles that you'd experience on your sailboat only if you put your ear literally on the engine while it was running.

[redneckrob]

Originally Posted by BlackHeron

East Coast radio procedure it is horrible too. THESE are the best kids they could find? Give me a break. It is embarrassing how poor the vast majority of them are on the air

Thank goodness for BoatUS. Those wre the guys who will save your boat, since they are are actually getting paid by the client at market prices, and they don't show up with a loaded machinegun on the bow all manned and ready to blow you out of the water. Priorities...

The USCG is a hot mess, and like the USPS they are well past their good-by date.

How, exactly, is the Coast Guard a "hot mess" beyond some radio operators who could use some additional training? Specifics please, because I sincerely want to know and plan to convey your concerns to my friends who are still on active duty and mostly at the O-6 level so they can do something about it. Specific situations you've personally experienced are most helpful, things you heard from a buddy or read online not so much. Thanks in advance for providing constructive help rather than just lobbing grenades.