Is a 44 Bavaria suitable for sailing in rough seas?

[boatman61]

Could it be down to things like this popping up on the net..

faulty bavaria yacht

[double u]

looks to me very well documented & not at all "ill informed cr@p"...

[Yellowtulip]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Could it be down to things like this popping up on the net..



faulty bavaria yacht

It's anecdotal; it doesn't say what the actual problem is, nor does it give any context. How many other Bavarias has this happened to? Was it a design fault? Was it delivery damage? Such reports are of little use, but they have a large negative effect.
I've never sailed a Bavaria, by the way.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Yellowtulip

It's anecdotal; it doesn't say what the actual problem is, nor does it give any context. How many other Bavarias has this happened to? Was it a design fault? Was it delivery damage? Such reports are of little use, but they have a large negative effect.
I've never sailed a Bavaria, by the way.

No context..??

http://www.faultybavariayacht.com/untitled-c1h0s Photo Gallery.
The Engineers Report


I engaged the services of two expert marine engineers, Mr. Eugene Tubridy, Dip. Mar. Surv. Mar. Eng. R.M.S., M.I.I.M.S and from Argyll, Scotland * * * * * * * * *Mr. Ian Nicholson, C.Eng. F.R.I.N.A. Hon. M.I.I.M.S.*
*
Following an inspection of the boat Mr. Tubridy concluded "
SUMMARY /CONCLUSION
*
From the aforementioned statements and findings I submit that the hull and deck of the vessel “Coleplay” are defective as the result of poor and incompetent fabrication and assembly and is now considered unfit for the purpose for which it was purchased. *
*
Due to the structural condition of the vessel, salt water ingress has now resulted in further damage/defect to the interior of the vessel namely, cabinetry, electrical installation, soft furnishings and fittings and thus the current market value of the vessel is greatly reduced.
*
In my opinion this vessel would be considered to be a bad insurance risk due to its present unseaworthy condition.*
Furthermore, I am concerned that in the short term the condition of the hull structure of this vessel will continue to deteriorate faster than normal.*
*
Mr. Coleman has grave misgivings as to the safety of the vessel and has lost confidence and is most concerned that it will not be “fit for purpose”."
*
Following Mr. Nicholson's inspection he concluded*
*
"This yacht cannot be safely and satisfactorily repaired and any attempt to do so will result in a vessel which will fall short of a fully sound and "as new" product"
*
He went on to recommend that "in view of all the foregoing it is recommended that the vessel is handed back to the builder and / or selling agenta and the owner reimbursed for the full purchase price"

[Bleemus]

That photo gallery is convincing enough for me. Real shoddy workmanship.

[robert sailor]

Pretty conclusive report, pretty much suggests that this boat was poorly constructed and the problems that have occurred are related to this poor construction. ..how can you not come to the same conclusion?

[double u]

...& deducing from this one specimen the general meaning of "bavaria quality" isn't far fetched at all, imho...

[Exile]

Originally Posted by double u

...& deducing from this one specimen the general meaning of "bavaria quality" isn't far fetched at all, imho...

Maybe or maybe not. I think there's a natural but perhaps misleading tendency to place greater weight on a few failures and less weight on the many successful builds from a particular brand or model. Perhaps more so in so-called "production boats" because their lower mfg. costs seem mainly attributable to robotics & uniform assembly line techniques which are applied to an entire product line. Thus harder to attribute what may or may not be an isolated failure to human intervention.

Then again, and as many have pointed out, most of us don't know exactly how various boats are actually built, and there are obviously plenty around who don't seem to have suffered the type of failures identified in this or other examples. There are always trade-offs with lower cost products, but it would be nice if there were more confidence-inspiring standards in the recreational marine industry so that consumers could be better informed about what exactly those trade-offs were.

[Exile]

This guy doesn't seem too bothered about reports of sketchy build quality. And the comments resemble a CF thread! :big grin:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F38EDfEGrS8

[Yellowtulip]

Originally Posted by boatman61

No context..??

http://www.faultybavariayacht.com/untitled-c1h0s Photo Gallery.
The Engineers Report


I engaged the services of two expert marine engineers, Mr. Eugene Tubridy, Dip. Mar. Surv. Mar. Eng. R.M.S., M.I.I.M.S and from Argyll, Scotland * * * * * * * * *Mr. Ian Nicholson, C.Eng. F.R.I.N.A. Hon. M.I.I.M.S.*
*
Following an inspection of the boat Mr. Tubridy concluded "
SUMMARY /CONCLUSION
*
From the aforementioned statements and findings I submit that the hull and deck of the vessel “Coleplay” are defective as the result of poor and incompetent fabrication and assembly and is now considered unfit for the purpose for which it was purchased. *
*
Due to the structural condition of the vessel, salt water ingress has now resulted in further damage/defect to the interior of the vessel namely, cabinetry, electrical installation, soft furnishings and fittings and thus the current market value of the vessel is greatly reduced.
*
In my opinion this vessel would be considered to be a bad insurance risk due to its present unseaworthy condition.*
Furthermore, I am concerned that in the short term the condition of the hull structure of this vessel will continue to deteriorate faster than normal.*
*
Mr. Coleman has grave misgivings as to the safety of the vessel and has lost confidence and is most concerned that it will not be “fit for purpose”."
*
Following Mr. Nicholson's inspection he concluded*
*
"This yacht cannot be safely and satisfactorily repaired and any attempt to do so will result in a vessel which will fall short of a fully sound and "as new" product"
*
He went on to recommend that "in view of all the foregoing it is recommended that the vessel is handed back to the builder and / or selling agenta and the owner reimbursed for the full purchase price"

Sorry, I missed the link to the engineer's report, and just saw the front page.

[Jim Cate]

A shocking example of poor manufacturing practices and even poorer customer service and poorer yet integrity.

And a good supporting argument for hiring an independent surveyor to examine a NEW boat before accepting it and making final payment.

Jim

[Polux]

Obviously that is not a common case with Bavaria, I men faulty boats, otherwise they would be out of business. That seems pretty much an isolated case and we only heard one part about what happened.

I looked at the link and strikes me at odd that only a comment was posted there since 2009. The other comment is mine asking what happened since the court ruling.

I don't understand how the situation has not changed after the court ruling. I believe the law in US is not different than in most countries and if Bavaria had not complied with the ruling its assets on the country could have been taken by the court till the court ruling was fulfilled.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Polux

Obviously that is not a common case with Bavaria, I men faulty boats, otherwise they would be out of business. That seems pretty much an isolated case and we only heard one part about what happened.

I looked at the link and strikes me at odd that only a comment was posted there since 2009. The other comment is mine asking what happened since the court ruling.

I don't understand how the situation has not changed after the court ruling. I believe the law in US is not different than in most countries and if Bavaria had not complied with the ruling its assets on the country could have been taken by the court till the court ruling was fulfilled.

This has nothing to do with the USA.. its in Ireland..

[aclmck]

I have heard of a couple of isolated instances where a boat fails and even sinks this does not mean that every boat manufactured is flawed, although it raises questions as to why these boats slip through the "quality inspections and the CE certification" un detected.

i guess if you want to hide a fault then any company can be found wanting if Quality Control is found wanting.

On the other hand i have also seen an add for a very well built boat, the seller trying to rubbish the builder with a boat he claimed was unseaworthy and the authorities would not let off the docks, he had it for sale and when i enquired (3 times) i never got a response from the seller so some (not all) of these boat yarns are people with grievances over something and this is how it is played out ,at least these are my thoughts.

[Polux]

Originally Posted by boatman61

This has nothing to do with the USA.. its in Ireland..

OK, but that is irrelevant, in Ireland Courts also seize property of the ones that don't comply with court decisions.

I really would like to know more about that case. It is odd in what regards a Court having found Bavaria guilty and not resulting consequences from there.

Could be the case Bavaria was not selling more boats in Ireland and not having property there? and maybe that's the case since I cannot find any Irish dealer.
https://www.bavaria-yachtbau.com/dealer-search.html

Anyway I would like to know more, it looks odd Bavaria not selling boats on a country because it refuses to repair a boat?