Buying boat for charter with Dream Yacht Charter

[Salex]

Hi,
I'm considering to buy a boat with Dream Yacht Charter as per this offer
https://www.yachtcharters.com.au/own...nal-ownership/
In short the offer is:
"The Fractional Ownership Program exists through a French tax incentive. A buyer receives an up-front discount of up to 55% on the purchase price of a brand new Beneteau, Jeanneau or Lagoon catamaran. Consequently, only the 45% to 55% balance is due at closing. Under this program, owners may enjoy up to 6 weeks of sailing per year at no expense and yet still earn 3% annual, guaranteed income based on the 45% to 55% owner’s investment. The yacht must be operated for 7 years in a French territory such as Martinique, Guadeloupe or Tahiti."

Would really appreciate opinions / intel on:
1. Did anybody chartered the boat from Dream Yacht Charter and how did that go (boat condition, professionalism, etc.)
2. Did anybody owned boat through them. Any experience on running and exiting
3. Any comments about company
4. Any general comments about buying boat for charter
5. Tell about sailing a sister boats. Was that easy, no hidden costs, etc.

Thanks in advance,
Salex

[Farinha95]

Hi,

I can help with all your questions and I think I have a better company for you to use than dream yacht charter.

My name is Ricardo and I work for Fiducs Yacht management. Send me an email if interested rf@fiducs.com

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Salex

Hi,
I'm considering to buy a boat with Dream Yacht Charter as per this offer
https://www.yachtcharters.com.au/own...nal-ownership/
In short the offer is:
"The Fractional Ownership Program exists through a French tax incentive. A buyer receives an up-front discount of up to 55% on the purchase price of a brand new Beneteau, Jeanneau or Lagoon catamaran. Consequently, only the 45% to 55% balance is due at closing. Under this program, owners may enjoy up to 6 weeks of sailing per year at no expense and yet still earn 3% annual, guaranteed income based on the 45% to 55% owner’s investment. The yacht must be operated for 7 years in a French territory such as Martinique, Guadeloupe or Tahiti."

Would really appreciate opinions / intel on:
1. Did anybody chartered the boat from Dream Yacht Charter and how did that go (boat condition, professionalism, etc.)
2. Did anybody owned boat through them. Any experience on running and exiting
3. Any comments about company
4. Any general comments about buying boat for charter
5. Tell about sailing a sister boats. Was that easy, no hidden costs, etc.

Thanks in advance,
Salex

So you get 55% off the price and only have to pay 55%? Does that sound right to you?

Ask for a full copy of the Contract including all terms and conditions (I bet they resist mightily wanting you to sign up before going into detail). Then take it to your accountant (no one affiliated with charter operations) and pay them to take a day and run the numbers for you as an independent observer with no skin in the game.

[leboyd]

Chartered from several companies, including DYC. I haven't chartered from all the companies, so with my limited experience DYC is my favorite. I really lime their BVI base. People are always friendly and helpful. to me they make you feel like he owner of the boat instead of the charterer.

[ol1970]

We have chartered with Dream Yacht in the Bahamas, and French Polynesia, both times it was a fantastic experience. So much so that the whole concept does get me thinking about doing the whole ownership program ourselves.

In speaking with their representative this past weekend in Dusseldorf the program that would be of interest to us is the following:

-Pay 55% of the boat cost up front. (let's say for example it's a Lagoon 42, cost $600,000, I write a check for $330k)
-It goes into their charter for roughly 5 years and 6 months.
-We get to use the boat 12 weeks a year (off season, or 6 weeks high season)
-No expenses for us
-No income for us
-At the end of the program they theoretically have maintained the boat to be in good working order and free from defects, and then they give us the keys and we own it 100% outright.

So from my angle, I then take this Lagoon 42 and attempt to sell it after coming out of charter. Let's take a leap of faith and say it sells for $330k, so after brokerage fees and expenses I get a check back for $300k. The cost to us has been $30k loss on the boat, plus the cost of money for 5.5 years on the original down payment. So conservatively say roughly 4% return on the 330K would be $70k net.

We have now spent $100,000 for 5 years of a lot of sailing around the world. If I assume we only used the 6 weeks a year in high season and the boat is $8k week high season cost, we've saved $175,000 in would be chartering expense.

The reason this is kind of appealing to us is that my wife's benefits allow us to fly for free, so the travel expense side of things doesn't come into play for us like it would others. Secondly because of this benefit and our diverse travel interests we find ourselves liking to do tons of other cool stuff like visiting land based stuff as well, like national parks, snowboarding, cool cities, jungles, deserts, mountains, etc.

So from a retirement angle, we'd actually be more likely to spend the entire 12 weeks in low season vs. 6 weeks only in high season. This is a pretty good amount of time on the water each year and being able to mix it up with new locations is appealing.

Other the risk of not being able to sell the boat at the end, what am I missing? But considering the expense of actually owning and maintaining your own boat for 3-4 months use a year (and that being the same location year after year) it seems like the idea has merit.

[rasher]

We bought a boat into the DYC charter fleet one year ago this week. We did the "Dream Easy" program where we paid 35% down and then have a 25% balloon payment at the end of the 66 month contract.

We bought a small boat (Dufour 350) with the intention of upgrading to larger boats when we want friends/family to come. This has turned out to be a great decision because the cost to upgrade to 40-42' boats averages about $500 per week, which our guests are happy to pay.

I spent years agonizing about the money and comparing programs and charter companies and in the end decided to go with DYC because they have so many more bases than everyone else. We've sailed "our yacht" from our base once and every other charter has been a reciprocal use. We don't know when the next time will be when we go back to "our base" and sail "our yacht". Last fall we spent a couple weeks in Croatia and next month we've got a couple weeks in Grenada and the Grenadines.

Here's the deal - I haven't thought about the money aspect of the deal since about a week after we wrote the check and signed the papers. Now we just focus on where our next destination is going to be and we don't have to scrape money (and crew) together to pay for it. Just book the boat and go. The way I explained it to the wife is we're pre-paying for 5 years of chartering at a steep discount and she went for that straightaway.

The best thing about DYC for us is the opportunity to sail so many different locations that we wouldn't go to if we owned our own boat. Our destination list: Grenada, back to Croatia, BVIs, La Paz, Italy, Greece and then start looking at the South Pacific bases.

DYC Owner Care has been wonderful for us so far - I have one person (Lya) that I email with my destination and dates, she responds back in a day with available boats, and then we finish up the paperwork. Couldn't be easier. Also the staff at the bases we've been to have been great and treat us well as owners.

My only concern about the program is at the end of the contract and how difficult it's going to be to sell our boat. We have no intention of keeping it. Frankly I'm not all that concerned about trying to get the maximum money out of the sale, so hopefully we'll be able to get rid of it quick and easy.

Conclusion - We've been with DYC for 12 months and are very very happy so far.

[mvweebles]

Originally Posted by Salex

Hi,
I'm considering to buy a boat with Dream Yacht Charter....... Under this program, owners may enjoy up to 6 weeks of sailing per year at no expense and yet still earn 3% annual, guaranteed income based on the 45% to 55% owner’s investment.

For future reference on DYC

On March 27th 2020, DYC notified owners that they would not be making guaranteed payments for at least 6-months due to industry upheaval caused by COVID-19. They will add 6-months to the back-end of their program. No mention of country-specific tax implications.

There is a lengthy CF Thread discussing this, including a statement from DYC Owner/President in Post #140. Posts from owners in Moorings and Sunsail stated that as of March 31 2020, they had not received a similar notice. One owner in The Catamaran Company linked a URL where Cat Company re-affirms their payments.

Obviously, as of this date, April 1 2020, the situation is fluid.

[LittleWing77]

Did you not see this thread?

https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ts-232097.html

Caveat emptor!

Run away!
LittleWing77

[Montanan]

Guarantee is only as good as the guarantor. It is a cap not a minimum. They are guaranteed to not pay you more, but due to financial difficulties could pay you nothing, be prepared to be able to go with no payments else you are taking a risk that you might not be able to afford.

[Mook1e]

Originally Posted by rasher

We bought a boat into the DYC charter fleet one year ago this week. We did the "Dream Easy" program where we paid 35% down and then have a 25% balloon payment at the end of the 66 month contract.

We bought a small boat (Dufour 350) with the intention of upgrading to larger boats when we want friends/family to come. This has turned out to be a great decision because the cost to upgrade to 40-42' boats averages about $500 per week, which our guests are happy to pay.

I spent years agonizing about the money and comparing programs and charter companies and in the end decided to go with DYC because they have so many more bases than everyone else. We've sailed "our yacht" from our base once and every other charter has been a reciprocal use. We don't know when the next time will be when we go back to "our base" and sail "our yacht". Last fall we spent a couple weeks in Croatia and next month we've got a couple weeks in Grenada and the Grenadines.

Here's the deal - I haven't thought about the money aspect of the deal since about a week after we wrote the check and signed the papers. Now we just focus on where our next destination is going to be and we don't have to scrape money (and crew) together to pay for it. Just book the boat and go. The way I explained it to the wife is we're pre-paying for 5 years of chartering at a steep discount and she went for that straightaway.

The best thing about DYC for us is the opportunity to sail so many different locations that we wouldn't go to if we owned our own boat. Our destination list: Grenada, back to Croatia, BVIs, La Paz, Italy, Greece and then start looking at the South Pacific bases.

DYC Owner Care has been wonderful for us so far - I have one person (Lya) that I email with my destination and dates, she responds back in a day with available boats, and then we finish up the paperwork. Couldn't be easier. Also the staff at the bases we've been to have been great and treat us well as owners.

My only concern about the program is at the end of the contract and how difficult it's going to be to sell our boat. We have no intention of keeping it. Frankly I'm not all that concerned about trying to get the maximum money out of the sale, so hopefully we'll be able to get rid of it quick and easy.

Conclusion - We've been with DYC for 12 months and are very very happy so far.

Hi. Thank you for your lengthy post concerning your experience with DYC. May I ask how DYC is working with you during these uncertain times concerning your participation in the Dream Easy Program? Have they requested that your period in the program be extended due to their inability to charter at this time as well? I am communicating with them currently about entering the program as well, but I have quite a way to go before I am ready to decide if my wife and I will be participating. We would plan to keep the boat following our term, and expect to be fully retired around half-way through the program. I would appreciate any information you can provide.
Cheers.

[bstreep]

Let me jump in. Before you sign anything with DYC, make sure you look over your legal documents. The ones we saw require any legal proceedings to take place in Mauritius. It's a tiny island in the middle of the freakin' Indian Ocean. That's known to be very favorable to companies situated there.

The owner/founder of the company is known to be a "tough businessman". Says the base manager in French Polynesia.

Based upon our experience on a 2 week charter in French Polynesia, there's absolutely no way I'd charter with them again, and I'd certainly not consider putting a boat into charter with them. Ever wonder why there are so few negative reviews on DYC? Go look at Trip Advisor reviews. You will see a huge number of them have been removed at the request of the reviewer. See, if you have a problem with your charter, and they compensate you in any way (such as free diesel fill up at the end of the charter), they make you sign for it. Buried in that "agreement", you agree to not post anything negative about them.

Buyer beware.

https://dreamyachtcharterssuck.com/

[Mook1e]

Thank you also for your input. This is quite a horror story.
It's been mentioned in other threads that the experiences vary greatly depending on the operating base. I'm even more reluctant now to take the chance.
I have wondered if part of the contract for participation in the owner programs is an NDA for the owner which prevents them from fully divulging their experience.
IF we look at signing anything with them, I would like to have more information from owners without duress. I will, as always, consult with an experienced lawyer.

Originally Posted by bstreep

Let me jump in. Before you sign anything with DYC, make sure you look over your legal documents. The ones we saw require any legal proceedings to take place in Mauritius. It's a tiny island in the middle of the freakin' Indian Ocean. That's known to be very favorable to companies situated there.

The owner/founder of the company is known to be a "tough businessman". Says the base manager in French Polynesia.

Based upon our experience on a 2 week charter in French Polynesia, there's absolutely no way I'd charter with them again, and I'd certainly not consider putting a boat into charter with them. Ever wonder why there are so few negative reviews on DYC? Go look at Trip Advisor reviews. You will see a huge number of them have been removed at the request of the reviewer. See, if you have a problem with your charter, and they compensate you in any way (such as free diesel fill up at the end of the charter), they make you sign for it. Buried in that "agreement", you agree to not post anything negative about them.

Buyer beware.

https://dreamyachtcharterssuck.com/

[Montanan]

Please reference the recent post by Shanachie at #164 under the thread titled:
Re: Dream Yacht suspending Guaranteed Charter Income payments, as linked here and copied:

https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ml#post3127621

"A message from Dream Yacht Charter to its business partners, copied from the company's web site. Note that it says it has the financial resources to succeed through September. Any bets on how the charter business will be doing then?



For the first time in our history, we have an almost total suspension of our activity due to the Coronavirus pandemic. Our bases can no longer accommodate customers and, as you will no doubt be experiencing too, sales teams have virtually no more sales requests to process.

My first priority is of course the health of my staff, you, as our partners, and that of our customers. Site closures and remote working allow us to quickly meet this requirement.

The second priority is to ensure the sustainability of our businesses. We have, as I am sure you have, been working tirelessly to guarantee the functioning of our businesses for the coming months so that we can recover quickly after the pandemic restrictions are lifted. We have drastically reduced our costs, secured a government loan and you can be confident that we will successfully see this through until September. Emphasis added

We know you are all suffering too and our strength with partners has always rested on the ability to mobilize in solidarity, to act quickly and anticipate. This is the vision that I invite you to share, to find these joint solutions to help each other.

While we have cut back our operations and costs to ensure our survival, we remain committed to delivering those charters which guests still intend to take and provide excellent customer service. This means, in return, we need to know who is committed to travelling and that they maintain their financial commitment to the booking.

What we can all do together is to help customers feel confident in their bookings, knowing they can reschedule should they be unable to travel due to Coronavirus disruption, and maintain the bookings already in place.

Customers have the following options:

If they are not confident they will be able to travel for the booked date due to Coronavirus disruption, we offer flexible rescheduling. We urge them to reschedule.
If clients still intend to travel on the booked date, subject to the lifting of Coronavirus restrictions, it is important that they maintain their booking in good standing and adhere to the payment terms of their booking. They can be confident that if this situation changes, their money is safe and they can reschedule.

In these times of great uncertainty, we need more than ever to have the most accurate understanding of our clients’ intentions.

A reminder of our policies

Clients sailing this summer can change their dates and/or location in 2020 with no penalty.
Clients booked to sail this season can change to 2021 with a small change fee. Alternatively, this change fee can be avoided if the original payment schedule for pre-change dates is kept to.

The unprecedented event of COVID-19 has become a huge threat to the tourism industry and governments have been quick to react to protect businesses, such as yours and ours. Governments have fast-tracked law changes and we are applying it as soon as it is ratified.

These law changes in some countries mean customers cannot claim a refund during the Coronavirus pandemic period, instead they are allowed the opportunity to reschedule. This has been voted for recently by governments in France and Italy, and Germany isn’t far behind. Tour operators can issue a credit note valid for:

Italy – 12 months
France – 18 months (all major tourism firms including Air France apply that policy)

We kindly ask you to be firm with your clients and stick to this policy and it is also in your interest too.

We are adjusting our operation daily and we’ll be ready to serve charters as soon as guests are ready to travel to us. Those unable to get to us will be able to reschedule at another time that suits. In return, those clients that have booked with us must maintain their commitment to travel and financial payments according to their booking’s terms so that we can anticipate and plan the resuming of our operations accordingly.

It’s going to be a very difficult time and we thank our partners for their patience and understanding. I hope you and your teams stay safe.

Best regards

Loïc Bonnet

President and Founder, Dream Yacht Charter

[bstreep]

I'd like to add one more thing: It seems that there are several types of charter companies out there. The Moorings and Sunsail have boats built specifically for them. An ex charter boat from them doesn't necessarily make a great cruising boat, but you know it was built FOR the charter trade - and therefore beefed up where it needs to be.

DYC appears to buy boats based on a "deal" they get from the builders. Then, they spec the boats out with maximum cabins. They strip out "standard" items (based on our experience with the Dufour 520 - which is less than 50', BTW). Our boat had ZERO freezer space. None. No place to keep ice. "That's why we drink our beer warm". Right. They also don't put pictures of the actual boats on their websites. They use the ones from the manufacturer. Which doesn't show the tiny cabins, or the missing freezer, for instance. Based on our experience, I can't imagine what kind of condition the boat would be in after 4-5 years. On our 7-8 month old charter boat, there must have been 2 rolls of duct tape in use.

Then you have companies like BVI Yacht Charters. You buy the boat you want, with their assistance. The last boat we chartered from them was 5 years old. Best boat we've had in 16 charters. Impeccably maintained - at the owner's insistence, I should add. But all of their boats seem to be that way. Their MO is catch the problem before it becomes a real problem. Sail Caribe in PR seems to be the same way.

Again, DYC seems to be more like a car rental company - buy them in bulk, and buy 'em cheap. Car rental companies buy massive numbers of cars, rent them out until they get 15,000 miles on them, and then sell them for more than they paid for them.

https://dreamyachtcharterssuck.com/

Just my opinions, not necessarily the facts. But yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if their management contract prohibits saying bad things about them. And who the hell wants to go to Mauritius to fight a legal battle.

[Tropiclvr]

Hi all. Something to keep in mind. If you aren’t in the guaranteed income program, then you are basically trusting this company to be honest about when and for how long your boat is being chartered. How do you know that someone isn’t using your boat without your knowledge? What would you do if, let’s just say, you think your boat is sitting at a marina, and then find out that someone has actually been using it and virtually living on it for weeks or months? You aren’t physically there, so you have no way of knowing. Give that some thought!