Cruising Code 0 ... advice

[vasja]

Hi,

I’m considerin adding Code 0 to my sail setup. I have Elan S5 (E5) with OneSails 4T main sail and jib, and a gennaker. Intended use is ability to sail in low wind conditioons (up from 3-6knots) where gennaker or jib do not work that well. No racing.

Question is:

1) Laminate vs nylon?

2) Cord-less or with cable?

Of course lamninate is more expensive than nylon and cordless even more. Is it worth the differnece in price? I also like the idea that cordless laminate version is lighter and easioer to handle as most of the time I sail shorthanded and I also plan to start singlehanded sailing...

I’m looking at One Sails IFS version of FFR sail (their crousing version of Code 0)

What is your experiences? Anyone who upgraded from nylon to laminate and from cable to cordless version? How did you find the difference? I know the theory but how is real life experience between those versions.

Thanks all in advance!

Vasja

[slug]

Originally Posted by vasja

Hi,

I’m considerin adding Code 0 to my sail setup. I have Elan S5 (E5) with OneSails 4T main sail and jib, and a gennaker. Intended use is ability to sail in low wind conditioons (up from 3-6knots) where gennaker or jib do not work that well. No racing.

Question is:

1) Laminate vs nylon?

2) Cord-less or with cable?

Of course lamninate is more expensive than nylon and cordless even more. Is it worth the differnece in price? I also like the idea that cordless laminate version is lighter and easioer to handle as most of the time I sail shorthanded and I also plan to start singlehanded sailing...

I’m looking at One Sails IFS version of FFR sail (their crousing version of Code 0)

What is your experiences? Anyone who upgraded from nylon to laminate and from cable to cordless version? How did you find the difference? I know the theory but how is real life experience between those versions.

Thanks all in advance!

Vasja

The cable-less code zero needs much less luff tension to function

This is a major advantage , normally a code zero is set with a 2 to 1 halyard

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.seahorsemagazine.com/114-content/november-2017/548-no-optical-illusion/amp


I have only used cabled code zeros

I think the cable-less code zero is a major development

[Adelie]

What boat?
What budget?
Have you considered a drifter?

[vasja]

Originally Posted by Adelie

What boat?
What budget?
Have you considered a drifter?

It's mono hull Elan S5 (same design only lighter than E5 - https://www.elan-yachts.com/en/yacht...e-line/elan-e5).

I already have 4T main (51m2) and jib (37m2) and nylon gennaker (135m2).

Code 0 or FFR (ast one sails call theri crousing version) would be used for lighter winds when jib is not enough and gennaker is too big.

Re budget I'm considering nylon cordless due less cost then full laminate.

[vasja]

Originally Posted by Adelie

What boat?
What budget?
Have you considered a drifter?

Hi Boat is Elan S5 - the same in design as (https://www.elan-yachts.com/en/yacht...e-line/elan-e5). It's a sporty 39ft "performance cruiser"

Re budget I'm thinking about cord-less nylon option as it's less expensive than laminate. Ease of use is important as I'm mostly sailing short or even single handed.

[vasja]

Hi,

I've chatted with sailmaker and decided to go for a cruising adopted version of cordless Code 0 in laminate (onesails FFR). Both material and design are adopted to my style of use and as I've had good experience with this sail loft I'll trust them.

I'll also add bobstay to bowsprite as it's probably safer to protect it and no additional rework is needed (only some 6mm dyneema).

Will let you know how it works once delivered and tested.

[Kestrahl]

Probably better the cable less laminate than Onesails Nylon option, which appears to have a laminate cloth in the luff anyway. Nylon generally shouldn't be used for code zero's as its to stretchy.

For offshore cruising and passage making I still recommend a woven polyester cruising code zero with cable for durability, longevity and ease of trimming.

But for weekend sailing, overnights etc, it doesn't really matter, you can go for a bit more performance for the sake of durability and having to trim more often, and as they aren't hoisted 24 hours a day will last okay.

[vasja]

@Kestahl - Thank you for your insight - really helpful - that was also my reasoning... overall ease of use with cable-less was also strong consideration. And Sailmaker explained that Laminate CZ is specifically designed for this purpose and will therefore work best for this application.

They also explained that a cable-less version should be removed every time when it's not used and he does not recommend adding UV protection - to high risk of accidental unrolling...

[a64pilot]

A few comments, My code zero is our go to sail most of the time, it’s good to 20 kts, and we don’t often sail in winds over 20 kts, but occasionally do get caught out when winds exceed 20 kts. It’s not just for very low winds, and that can’t be overstated, this sail is good for 40 degrees apparent all the way to 180, yes 180 without a pole if there are decent winds and your autopilot can hold a decent course, you can’t go 180 if the autopilot wanders over to 190 of course. I only lose 10 degrees over my Genoa. I’m having my 135 Genoa cut down now to a 110, cause with the Code Zero there is no need for a big Genoa, small Genoa goes to windward better. I suspect you won’t use your Gennaker much after you get the Code Zero, but I never sailed a Gennaker either so that isn’t from experience.
If your cruising then you want the UV protection because you will use that sail a whole lot more than you think you will and taking it down and putting it away everyday will quickly become a pain, so you won’t go through all the trouble to put it back up.

If the cable less isn’t much more cost, and if it will stow more easily then I’d want it, but I wouldn’t spend much more for it myself. I don’t see any real advantage, but then I haven’t sailed one either, but if it’s just luff tension, what’s the big deal with that? Luff tension is just cranking a winch? Cost would drive this decision for me.

But think most of your questions really are predicated on whether your cruising or not, and if so are you just a couple, or are you more performance sailing on weekends?

[vasja]

thanks @a64pilot

Yes, coursing and weekend sailing - both. But no competition.

I've decided to start without UV protection as reasoning to take id down after use is solid. Apparently cordless is even more risky to accidentally unfurl. Which would be costly and risky challenge. Also they've proposed I can easily store it in it's dedicated bag on deck which is even easier...

I've decided for cordless (and yes it's quit a bit more expensive) because it's supposed to be easier to handle and even less need to install 2:1 halyard which I'd prefer to avoid (additional cost for rope, installation and fitting). However 2 sailmakers confirmed that even with cable 2:1 is not mandatory - especially if it's not competition use (less going to the edge) and primarily light wind and downwind. Still many other references propose 2:1 for cable version...

[a64pilot]

Mine is 1 to 1 and I have no issues, but I have a decent sized winch to tighten it too.
You can of course leave it on deck, I have never really considered that. I leave mine up except when we are going to be in an anchorage for an extended time, then it comes down below.
There isn’t room for a 2 to 1 on my sail, it comes too close to the top to even use a splice on the line, we use a halyard knot instead, and I like the knot better myself.

I think you will start out thinking it’s a light wind sail, and like me discover that it’s good for much higher wind speeds, that there is a large overlap speed wise between it and the Genoa.

[Kestrahl]

Its really a case of racing mentality getting pushed over into cruising. On a cruising code zero with a torsion rope (not cable) you don't need a lot of tension.. So the argument that cableless code zeros don't need as much tension isn't all that relevant

Race yachts have structural cables with underdeck hydraulics...

In most cruising code zeros, its not a structural cable as such. Its a anti-torsion rope to facilitate the furling. The torsion ropes are much cheaper than the cables. I've found the bigger the rope, the tighter the sail will furl and the less likely hood of the sail blowing out when furled up

This is important as a lot of my customers leave their sails hoisted with a UV strip on the leech.

On a lot of cruising yachts which are under-rigged they are used in stronger winds as said.. So the wind range depends on the design of the boat. On my own boat we would be doing 7 knots in 8 knots of wind tight reaching, and it would overpower the boat after that, but broad reaching and running of course would take it up to 15 knots TWS.

[fxykty]

If we’re talking about a sail that is going to be used going to windward as close hauled as possible, basically replacing a large genoa in lighter winds, then you are going to need lots of luff tension. If you don’t, then you’ll have a lot of luff sag, a draft-back and overly full sail, that won’t let you sail close hauled. So you defeat the purpose.

For any moderately large boat, say mid-40 foot, I can’t imagine getting sufficient luff tension without 2:1 halyard, or a 3:1 or similar tack line that can be led to a winch. The latter option, used together with a 1:1 halyard and a halyard lock before the upper mast sheave, removes almost all of the mast compression due to halyard tension.

That same sail can be used for reaching and even downwind and those will be times you can apply less tension to the luff as you’ll want the flatter cut sail to be deeper for more power.

If all you want is a sail that will be used for close reaching to downwind in lighter and moderate wind conditions then a 1:1 halyard and moderate tension is just fine. Dacron makes more sense cost and durability wise.

Regarding the cost of cable-less vs usual cable (or anti-torsion rope, same thing), the latter sail will be cheaper until you add the cost of the cable. Once you do that, the cable-less is less expensive, depending on the materials you prefer. If laminates are not necessary, then cable-less will likely be more expensive overall.

For lightweight laminates you can paint a UV strip - it will need repainting every so often, but will avoid heavy fabric wrecking the leech of the sail. There will be plenty of times that you’ll get to an anchorage, or begin to motor, and want to have the sail ready to deploy the next time you can sail, so having UV protection is necessary. But cable-less sails are more prone to opening up higher up, so it’s not worth keeping it up when the wind pipes up.

It all depends whether you want to sail, or just to cruise.

[vasja]

Hi all,

I've received my new FFR from OneSails last Friday and was able to test fly it on Sunday in a light breeze.

Super happy for now.

Much easier to handle compared to Gennaker in a sock.

V.