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Old 10-03-2020, 06:42   #1
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Converting head sails to hank on?

Hi, I will be converting a 170% Genoa and a storm jib from roller furler to hank on. I’ve researched a fair amount, as well as sent to job to a few sail lofts via email to no avail. The sails themselves are in great condition so it’s worthwhile from that perspective. My only remaining question is whether it’s advisable to cut the luff wire out and install the grommets behind the primary luff wire/bolt or install between the two wires. It’s an Alberg 30 intended for coastal cruising in south Florida.

My installation process will be to install sail tape prior to grommet installation. Then grommets every 26” (6” from head) them Swedish hanks with protective plastic sheathing.

Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

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Old 10-03-2020, 07:03   #2
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Re: Converting head sails to hank on?

There is a good deal more to it than you are thinking.

First, there is probably no "wire" in this part of the sail. Luff tapes of the kind on your sail are typically made of sailcloth folded over hard plastic "cord"

What you really should do is build a proper bolt rope and its associated tabling on the luff of the sail.

The reason this is critical is a proper bolt rope the right diameter and length is what really controls the about of stretch in the luff of the sail as you tighten the halyard. Without a bolt rope supporting the luff, you will have little control over the shape of the sail since the luff of the sail will stretch far more than it should at a given halyard tension.

The normal process is that a bolt rope is cut a few inches shorter than the sail. It is either attached at the top and bottom, or (much better!) hand sewn the length of the sail. When the halyard comes tight, it tensions and stretches the bolt rope before the sailcloth starts to stretch.

I assume you are doing this because you prefer the better sail shape and control you will get with a hank on sail. Good on you! BUT... to actually get those benefits you will need to do a bit more work than just punch some grommets in the existing sail

I would strongly recommend reading The Sailmaker's Apprentice for both the logic and techniques for this kind of modification.
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Old 10-03-2020, 07:16   #3
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Re: Converting head sails to hank on?

@billknny

Thanks for the response. Just ordered sailmakers apprentice. Should have read that first. I know there is no metal wire I just couldn’t find the proper term for the plastic chordage. It was my understanding that the first chord was for the furler track and the second was the bolt rope. I will definitely do more research prior to beginning. Thanks again.
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Old 10-03-2020, 15:50   #4
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Re: Converting head sails to hank on?

If the luff stretch was correct when on the furler, why would it be different when hanked on?.

A 170 Genoa is likely made from quite light cloth and the luff tape sized to stretch properly for that weight. I don't think a traditional luff rope is required at all. I'd at least put in the grommets and hanks and give it a try before making a big project out of it.

And FWIW, I've never seen a sail with two "wires" like t hat. What do you think the purpose of the second, curved one might be?

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Old 10-03-2020, 16:08   #5
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Re: Converting head sails to hank on?

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If the luff stretch was correct when on the furler, why would it be different when hanked on?.

A 170 Genoa is likely made from quite light cloth and the luff tape sized to stretch properly for that weight. I don't think a traditional luff rope is required at all. I'd at least put in the grommets and hanks and give it a try before making a big project out of it.

And FWIW, I've never seen a sail with two "wires" like t hat. What do you think the purpose of the second, curved one might be?

Jim

We’re about to convert our Hydranet jib from luff tape in a furler slot to hanked on. I asked a local sailmaker about it. He said that a furling luff tape is sized for constant tension along its whole length, whereas hanks put higher point loading at whatever distance they’re apart (say 70cm). That is a whole lot more load than the furling luff tape can handle.

So the procedure needed for my sail is to remove the existing luff tape, install a new, stronger luff tape, install strengthening patches on the new luff tape and the sail at the hank locations, then attach the hanks. He quoted about 12 hours and some material. This is for a 35 square metre sail with a 17m luff on a 16.4m catamaran that will be used up to 30 knots of wind, YMMV.

Regarding the second curved “wire”, that could be the additional volume added to the luff to make the partially furled sail shape a little better by pulling in more material in the centre part of the sail. Also can be removed when changing to hanks.
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Old 10-03-2020, 17:02   #6
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Re: Converting head sails to hank on?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fxykty View Post
We’re about to convert our Hydranet jib from luff tape in a furler slot to hanked on. I asked a local sailmaker about it. He said that a furling luff tape is sized for constant tension along its whole length, whereas hanks put higher point loading at whatever distance they’re apart (say 70cm). That is a whole lot more load than the furling luff tape can handle.

So the procedure needed for my sail is to remove the existing luff tape, install a new, stronger luff tape, install strengthening patches on the new luff tape and the sail at the hank locations, then attach the hanks. He quoted about 12 hours and some material. This is for a 35 square metre sail with a 17m luff on a 16.4m catamaran that will be used up to 30 knots of wind, YMMV.

Regarding the second curved “wire”, that could be the additional volume added to the luff to make the partially furled sail shape a little better by pulling in more material in the centre part of the sail. Also can be removed when changing to hanks.
That makes sense for a heavy sail like yours, but I wonder about a 170? It should never be loaded up that much. FWIW, I wonder about the benefits of such a big overlap on a rig like the Alberg's...

I've had hanked on headsails in years past that had only tapes on the luff, but they did have reinforcement patches at the hanks.

I guess in the long run, repurposing sails is a makeshift game at best!

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Old 10-03-2020, 18:53   #7
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Re: Converting head sails to hank on?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fxykty View Post
We’re about to convert our Hydranet jib from luff tape in a furler slot to hanked on. I asked a local sailmaker about it. He said that a furling luff tape is sized for constant tension along its whole length, whereas hanks put higher point loading at whatever distance they’re apart (say 70cm). That is a whole lot more load than the furling luff tape can handle.

So the procedure needed for my sail is to remove the existing luff tape, install a new, stronger luff tape, install strengthening patches on the new luff tape and the sail at the hank locations, then attach the hanks. He quoted about 12 hours and some material. This is for a 35 square metre sail with a 17m luff on a 16.4m catamaran that will be used up to 30 knots of wind, YMMV.

Regarding the second curved “wire”, that could be the additional volume added to the luff to make the partially furled sail shape a little better by pulling in more material in the centre part of the sail. Also can be removed when changing to hanks.


Really valid point, as far as overall tension. Definitely hadn’t thought about that. Thanks.
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Old 10-03-2020, 21:13   #8
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Re: Converting head sails to hank on?

Why the 170? Is this for a cruising boat? I would think that for a cruising boat by the time you want to put up the 170 it’s light enough that something like a drifter or CodeZero would be a better.
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Old 11-03-2020, 03:10   #9
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Re: Converting head sails to hank on?

Playing the hand I was dealt I suppose. The boat is new to me and this sail is in amazing condition, so I figure may as well keep it in the inventory.
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Old 11-03-2020, 10:55   #10
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Re: Converting head sails to hank on?

Well, i don't know who the sail maker is that you consulted, but i talked to North and Hood here in Sausalito, and was told to just install groment's every 12 " on the luff tape, which i did, works fine, you can do this yourself, you will need a leather punch, groment's [with SPURS] and a the die, used to hammer the grommet into the luff tape.
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Old 11-03-2020, 13:39   #11
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Re: Converting head sails to hank on?

Hi, just go to Sailrite.com they have ton of video.
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Old 11-03-2020, 13:54   #12
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Re: Converting head sails to hank on?

Surely you can get a sailmaker to redo the luff correctly...?
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Old 11-03-2020, 14:24   #13
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Re: Converting head sails to hank on?

Maybe sell your excellent sails as they are. Seems to me there should be lot of used hank on sails from those who converted to furling.
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Old 12-03-2020, 01:39   #14
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Re: Converting head sails to hank on?

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Playing the hand I was dealt I suppose. The boat is new to me and this sail is in amazing condition, so I figure may as well keep it in the inventory.

If the boat is new to you and the sail is in such good condition, why don't you just keep the roller/furler gear as well? At least for the first year.


A removable inner forestay for a hank-on storm jib may be a better use of resources than trying to alter a perfectly good genoa.


I can't envisage a scenario where I would be on the foredeck of a 30 foot boat trying to take down a hanked-on genoa when conditions warranted its replacement with a storm jib.
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Old 12-03-2020, 03:17   #15
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Re: Converting head sails to hank on?

Really good point. Though my situation points toward the hank conversion.

The boat was de-masted to transit from Virginia by the previous owner and the old furlex was not reinstalled when the ran the standing rigging. So the furler has been sitting in the corner of the boat yard for three years in the elements. Making it a suspect piece of hardware in my opinion. Coupled with the fact that my long term sail plan calls for hank on I just feel like I might as well do it now.

I will however re-investigate the furlex and assess parts availability etc. prior to making my final decision.

Thank you.
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