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Curmudgeon 27-02-2012 15:13

Long-Term Charter in the Med
 
In three years my wife and I want to cruise the Med, beginning in April of 2015. The current plan is to use Dockwise to ship my boat over from the U.S. East coast, sail for 6-7 months, and then ship it back. But Dockwise isn't cheap.

Would it be possible to charter a boat long term to cruise the Med? Ideally I'd like to start in the Atlantic on the Algarve, and then head east via Spain, Sardinia, Naples, upinto the Adriatic, and then down to Greece and Turkey. I'd like a one-way charter, but if I had to bring the boat back to the starting point, I could do that.

I need a 35-40 ft. monohull, nothing too fancy, but seaworthy and with a good galley. Are there any charter outfits that offer such a long-term option?

multihullsailor6 28-02-2012 11:41

Re: Long-Term Charter in the Med
 
I have not come across any such long-term charters, you might be able to find one on a private base though.

With these plans of yours I hope you and your wife have European passports because otherwise your plans do not run parallel to Schengen Land visa requirements and terms.

goboatingnow 28-02-2012 18:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curmudgeon
In three years my wife and I want to cruise the Med, beginning in April of 2015. The current plan is to use Dockwise to ship my boat over from the U.S. East coast, sail for 6-7 months, and then ship it back. But Dockwise isn't cheap.

Would it be possible to charter a boat long term to cruise the Med? Ideally I'd like to start in the Atlantic on the Algarve, and then head east via Spain, Sardinia, Naples, upinto the Adriatic, and then down to Greece and Turkey. I'd like a one-way charter, but if I had to bring the boat back to the starting point, I could do that.

I need a 35-40 ft. monohull, nothing too fancy, but seaworthy and with a good galley. Are there any charter outfits that offer such a long-term option?


Sun sail etc would be delighted to rent you a boat for six months. Huge $$$$ of course. . Otherwise very rare privately and then insurance can be an issue.( usually between friends )


Ps check your schengen rules. 6-7 continuously in the EU is difficult legally.


Dave

Curmudgeon 28-02-2012 19:50

Re: Long-Term Charter in the Med
 
I'll get a residence permit. Alternatively I'll get a Schengen visa for 180 days and then get another. I'm not worried about the legalities.

goboatingnow 29-02-2012 04:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curmudgeon
I'll get a residence permit. Alternatively I'll get a Schengen visa for 180 days and then get another. I'm not worried about the legalities.

Oh good perhaps you might enlighten others as you seem, to have cracked an impossibility.

No such things as residence permits in Europe. There are work permits but they are like hens teeth, also long term visas in one EU country, does not entitle you to extended stays in other EU countries.

As to schengen, you've obviously done your research. It a 90 day visa then you must leave for 90 days. That's 90 days in total amongst all EU countries except Ireland and the Uk..

Good luck to ya there

Dave

David_Old_Jersey 29-02-2012 04:24

Re: Long-Term Charter in the Med
 
Anything is possible - likely is another thing.

FWIW, I would work out some figures (and timescales) that works for you - and tout the idea around the Forums. An extended "Charter" may work for someone presently in a bit of a hole financially - but doesn't want to (or can't!) sell the boat.

Obviously lots of details to work out, especially on condition of boat when returned (Surveyed again?), maintanence and repairs - but IMO with both parties willing nothing that is insurmountable........albeit for longer than 6 months probably cheaper to buy (well) and then sell....and then just suck up the loss as your "Charter Fee".

But as already said, I would nail down your personal visa side beforehand - the problem with travelling by boat is that you are always arriving somewhere and therefore more likely to run accross Officialdom than keeping head down onshore.

But push comes to shove, you could always claim Assylum!

Just out of curiousity (nosiness!) - what are Dockwise quoting?

beneteau-500 29-02-2012 05:03

Re: Long-Term Charter in the Med
 
well 2015 is a long way off why not enquire in 2014 but at today prices for a ie 25 week charter at 2000 euros a week is going to cost of course 50k then that is on todays price then factor in the rate of infaltion at 2.8% to 3.5% there abouts and add insurance will probably cost around 58,000 euros

goboatingnow 29-02-2012 06:19

Re: Long-Term Charter in the Med
 
Just to get serious OP, and I suspect you've not given any of this any serious thought.

There are many reasons why such long term charters don't exist ( and Ive never seen them).

(a) Theres the issue of security, how do I as an owner ensure you'll ever bring it back, especially if you live overseas. hence I'd require you to ESCROW the value of the boat ( and I suspect so would my insurance company). That'd sure tie up a lot of your $$$$, not to mention how to resolve maintenance, breakages and repairs. Im not Sunsail

(b) There the issue of commercial charter, as thats what the owner is now engaged in. In Europe there are stringent rules for charters, including in some cases requirements that the boat be coded ( hence built) differently. Some countries have over looked these..but..


(c) Then theres the insurance issue. You can't insure it as you don't have an "insurable interest". The owner would have to maintain insurance and covering you for such a long period may be practically impossible.

what you might be able to do, is to agree to buy and the boat resell to the original owner, That would technically work. both you and he agree the resale price , subject to xxx conditions. Ive never seen this done but it could work

Other then that I think your wasting your time as I haven't see the long term rental thing done and for good reasons.

yeloya 29-02-2012 06:37

Re: Long-Term Charter in the Med
 
Hi Curmudgeon,

I can give you some first hand info on the matter :
-yes, such long term charter is possible (we did couple of times)
-financially does it make sense or not, is another question though.. Basically, you have to multiply the weekly average charter price with the length of charter then discount by 25-30%. (there are no weekly checkins and outs..)
-if you go with a decent company the insurance won't be an issue. If the original policy does not cover yr entire sailing area, it should be extended, but not a big deal.
-if you do it one way, and rent form Greece or Turkey you will have to pay the transfer of the boat up to Gibraltar or so as well that can be quite substantial.

Borrowing soemoneelse boat for that purpose could lead to big issues as in many countries this is perceived as an illegal charter unless the owner of the boat is not on board.

Good luck

Yeloya

Curmudgeon 29-02-2012 06:52

Re: Long-Term Charter in the Med
 
As for the Shengen issue, I will get a "long stay" Type D Shengen Visa in France, Spain or Italy. Thousands of retired Americans (and Brits and Canadians and folks from other non-Shengen countries) live in Shengen countries, and I'm sure they don't have to leave every 90 days. Hell, half of the population of Tuscany is British.

As for the charter, David Old Jersey made the best suggestion. I'll check with brokers for a long-term rental of a boat that's already for sale by a distressed seller. The isurance would be factored into the price, and I'm sure a competent lawyer could draft an appropriate charter document to prove to any local authorities that I wasn't stealing the boat.

If a long-term charter doesn't make economic sense, there's always Dockwise. I'll pay them instead of infusing my money into the European economy.

Anders 29-02-2012 22:02

Re: Long-Term Charter in the Med
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Curmudgeon (Post 898220)
Hell, half of the population of Tuscany is British.

They are EU citizens and have the right to live there.

Boracay 01-03-2012 01:33

Re: Long-Term Charter in the Med
 
From the other side of the world why not break it down into a few medium term charters. I seem to recall several posts mentioning that sailing the length of the Mediterranean is not as pleasant as some might think.

So, why not pick the areas that you want to sail and charter yachts in each?

Offhand a serious Mediterranean sojourn would need Turkey, Greece, Croatia, French canals ...

A quick search suggests that Tunisia is now "on line" and looking good so with a bit of judicious juggling it could be possible to meet visa requirements.

Shipping (x 2), together with marina and other fees that would normally be absorbed by a the charter company, could easily go over $80k. And you'd be spending valuable weeks waiting.

Google suggests that all the places that you want to cruise have yacht charter companies. By avoiding the peak holiday times you could keep costs well under control. Combine cheap airfares, judicious use of a Eurail Pass and moderate hotels and it could just about fit your budget. I'd hit Paris and Barcelona during peak seasons myself.

And if you can take a risk of not booking and read weather reports carefully you could be in a warm snug apartment when those freezing gales come howling through.

David_Old_Jersey 01-03-2012 04:17

Re: Long-Term Charter in the Med
 
Just a thought, but why not try and set up a YachtFractions style arrangement - from memory, the usual MO with them is the partners get weeks / months per year - but no reason why you could not go into partnership with a couple of folks (3?) seeking to do same as you, except for years / seasons.....with an agreement that covers the boat being sold on a set date and / or partners buying the other's out.

As you are looking at 2015, plenty of time to set up - whether you get the last or the first year.

Obviously nothing without risk plus would have a chunk of capital tied up and probably wouldn't get all your money back (after expenses), but half a chance of getting close rather than a guaranteed loss.

Anyway, just a thought.


....or just get your boat accross by Delivery Skipper?

lolarose 01-03-2012 04:29

Re: Long-Term Charter in the Med
 
"Thousands of retired Americans (and Brits and Canadians and folks from other non-Shengen countries) live in Shengen countries",Hell, half of the population of Tuscany is British.





Yes, UK is non shengen country but UK is member of european union and brits do not need any visa to live or work in EU. (or sail around)

Curmudgeon 01-03-2012 06:50

Re: Long-Term Charter in the Med
 
After researching this a little, an attractive option is Croatia, a non-Shengen country. I can establish long-term residency there as a liveaboard at a Croatian marina. I'd use that as a base of operations to cruise Croatia, Bosnia, Montenegro, Italy's Adriatic coast and the Greek islands. I'll look for a long-term charter there as well.

Turkey is another non-Shengen option, and if I decide to cruise the Western Med, I'll get a long-term residency visa for Spain.


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