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-   -   Cruising Insurance Company for the Carribbean (https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f19/cruising-insurance-company-for-the-carribbean-44236.html)

johnanddeb 26-07-2010 06:19

Cruising Insurance Company for the Carribbean
 
We want to buy insurance for our next season,crossing from the florida keys and ultimately to St.Lucia.

pras 26-07-2010 06:28

We ultimately went with Blue Water Yacht Insurance. Great to deal with and "reasonable" premiums if that is possible on a sailboat. Looking forward to seeing other responses as well as ours expires soon and we will be researching better rates.

nautical62 26-07-2010 06:35

Give IMIS a try

IMIS Home Page

Palarran 26-07-2010 07:42

Joe Kolisch
Kolisch Marine Insurance, Inc.
1020 Bayamo Avenue Coral Gables, FL 33146 USA
305-992-3482 fax 305-424-9358
www.kolisch.net
joe@kolisch.net

colemj 26-07-2010 08:58

We have Commandeur in the Netherlands. We had a pleasant surprise this year when we renewed - payments are in Euros, so our premium decreased ~25% due the the drop in the euro vs the US$ this year.

Commandeur verzekeringen | Yachtinsurance | Yacht Insurance | Ease of mind with excellent conditions

Mark

TabbyCat 29-07-2010 09:59

Quote:

We have Commandeur in the Netherlands
The last time I looked at the Commandeur policy it excluded coverage for injuries to your guests while they were aboard you vessel. So I guess that means you have to have happy hour on someone else's boat.

chuckr 29-07-2010 10:58

we have used and recommeded bill hodgens of ft lauderdale for sometime and those who have contacted him have been happy and a couple of boats let me know that they went with him as he was able to structure a program just for them

we will be headed to mexico and points south later this year (God Willing) and we have already begun discussions with him on what we will need and he has given us some prelimary numbers that we liked with a couple of great companies

nothing ventured nothing gained - give him a try at yachtinsure.com

and NO i get nothing out of this except to help fellow cruisers out

chuck patty and svsoulmates
on the hook onancock, va

colemj 29-07-2010 11:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by TabbyCat (Post 493597)
The last time I looked at the Commandeur policy it excluded coverage for injuries to your guests while they were aboard you vessel. So I guess that means you have to have happy hour on someone else's boat.

Yes, this is true. For personal liability, you can either have happy hour on someone else's boat or you can just get a personal liability umbrella policy for $100-200 to cover that part.

Luckily, if you are outside the US, sue-happy people are rare and any cases must be brought through foreign courts using local attorneys, making them more difficult to pursue.

Insurance is always about trade offs. For us, Commandeur is half the price of IMIS with much better coverage and terms (excepting the personal liability part). Others may have a different set of criteria and prefer different carriers.

Mark

AnchorageGuy 29-07-2010 11:25

Run away from Bluewater. Look at IMIS. The companies they will find for you will probably be the same. Don't shop brokers, find a broker like IMIS that understands cruising boats and let them shop the insurance companies and underwriters for you. Chuck

chuckr 01-08-2010 11:54

i would disagree with waterway guy -- i would shop brokers -- they are all different and may give you differents answers --
but i would agree with him on finding a broker who understands and was a cruiser - i have met with the head of imis and he knows what he is doing - i deal with bill hodgens and he is an excruiser who has been there done that
some brokers only quote and have not been there or done that and do not understand the issues involved

good luck
chuck patty and svsoulmates
on the hook deltaville va

AnchorageGuy 01-08-2010 15:01

chuckr, What I meant was that calling several brokers will not get you a better deal since they are all using the same underwriters and insurance companies. What you will find is that if you contact three brokers, they will all three request a quote from the same underwriter or insurance companies. Then you will be branded as a shopper and the service you receive will suffer. Find a broker that you are comfortable with, and stay with them. There are few companies today that will insure cruisers. If you are a weekender or casual boater your options are greater.

Healer52 01-08-2010 16:17

Anyone have any reports about Admiral Insurance in Britain?

svHyLyte 01-08-2010 16:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Waterwayguy (Post 493646)
Run away from Bluewater. Look at IMIS. The companies they will find for you will probably be the same. Don't shop brokers, find a broker like IMIS that understands cruising boats and let them shop the insurance companies and underwriters for you. Chuck

Absolutely correct. Do a search on "TabbyCat". She works with IMIS and has been very helpful. IF you are lucky, you'll qualify for a policy issued by Markel, either a Helmsman or Jackline policy. In either case, IMIS is your best bet.

FWIW...

JamuJoe 16-08-2010 14:12

My Leopard 42 is in the Caribbean. I re-shop my marine insurance every year, and once again I am insured with Pantaeneius for the best coverage and premiums.

sck5 16-08-2010 17:15

Another vote for IMIS. They really know what they are doing and have been very good to me.

Conch Cruzer 25-10-2010 16:15

Vote for Commandeur
 
I used Commandeur for two plus years and recommend them. If the Euro has dropped vs. the dollar, then they'll be even more competitive in their pricing. I think the liability exclusion (for guests) in their policy is acceptable, but that is just my opinion. I think this exclusion/limitation is very minor compared to the exclusions I saw with other providers' policies.

IMIS is also good, though I don't have first hand experience.

I don't recommend Bluewater and that is from first hand experience.

SydneyTim 27-10-2010 15:21

Pantaenius excellent - we particularly like the hurricane cover being in summary no box, no season but 25% deductible on a claim unless hauled out in approved manner or sailing.

IMIS were good too

Commandeur another one heard lots good about aside form the 3rd party liability which one would hope is irrelevant, the other odd clause is that you are only covered for theft of items in a locked strong room on the boat - ie in practical terms no contents coverage at all.

TabbyCat 28-10-2010 20:54

Quote:

I think the liability exclusion (for guests) in their policy is acceptable
So you're not ever going to have anyone on your boat for happy hour? Because if someone slips and falls while on your boat, you will not be covered, and they could sue you for quite a lot. It's not just a minor exclusion.

DotDun 01-11-2010 10:48

Commandeur Insurance
 
Has anyone ever filed and collected on a claim with Commandeur?

I'm evaluating insurance coverage and the 'too good to be true' light bulb went off in my head when I got a quote from Commandeur. I just want a some comfort level they are a real insurance company. (their domain name doesn't help with the trustworthiness - the country of Nuie???)

I understand the liability and personal property limitations and will evaluate accordingly.

boatman61 01-11-2010 10:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by JamuJoe (Post 503520)
My Leopard 42 is in the Caribbean. I re-shop my marine insurance every year, and once again I am insured with Pantaeneius for the best coverage and premiums.


Another vote for Pantaeneius.... fast settlements and assistance... great people.. :thumb:

colemj 01-11-2010 18:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by DotDun (Post 551940)
Has anyone ever filed and collected on a claim with Commandeur?

I'm evaluating insurance coverage and the 'too good to be true' light bulb went off in my head when I got a quote from Commandeur. I just want a some comfort level they are a real insurance company. (their domain name doesn't help with the trustworthiness - the country of Nuie???)

I understand the liability and personal property limitations and will evaluate accordingly.

We have had Commandeur for two years. The domain is the standard one for websites in the Netherlands, where Commandeur is based. We have communicated with them in detail about a number of policy points and they have always been prompt and detailed in their explanations. They use Marsh Group and Lloyds for risk assessment and policy details and their underwriters are clearly stated in the policy (but I don't remember off hand who they are). I am unsure of what you mean by personal property limitations. Everything on our boat is fully covered by their policy.

The comment from another poster about property only being covered for theft if it is in a locked strong room is incorrect. There is no such clause in our policy.

We have been very happy with them.

We have never filed a claim with them.

Mark

wolfenzee 01-11-2010 19:13

Commandeur would not give me a quote for less than 130, 500

wolfenzee 01-11-2010 19:39

They want to insure it for what it would cost for me to go out and have another made, not how much it would sell for and/or I could buy an equivalent boat for

SydneyTim 02-11-2010 05:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by colemj (Post 552258)

The comment from another poster about property only being covered for theft if it is in a locked strong room is incorrect. There is no such clause in our policy.

Obviously it can have changed, BUT in 2009 when we were quoted by Commandeur they forwarded us their terms and conditions document entitled "Marsh Insurance Conditions For Yachts 2006" clause 4.5.1 sub section e of that document states:

"theft, provided that it was preceded by forcible entry into into locked up storage rooms on the vessel or into locked up storage rooms ashore"

I asked for clarification as this was a deal breaker for us on their coverage and they confirmed that theft of contents was covered by that clause as stated.

Maybe my email feedback that the only reason they weren't getting our business wa that clause has change their mind in the last 18 months, but check carefully when you get the quote.

Mike - what terms and conditions did they send you?

DotDun 02-11-2010 05:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by colemj (Post 552258)
The domain is the standard one for websites in the Netherlands, where Commandeur is based.

We have been very happy with them.

We have never filed a claim with them.

Mark


Mark, thanks for the information. I'm glad to hear the personal effects coverage only in a strong box is wrong. The lack of liability for visitors on the boat issue is understandable for a company outside of the 'sue-happy' USA.

Now I have a decision to make.

BTW, the top level domain 'NU' belongs to the south Pacific Island country of Niue. The Netherlands TLD is 'NL'. These are all based on the ISO 3166 country codes. I've seen various cases where the country code TLDs were being used for purposes other than the original intent, so this doesn't reflect any negative on Commandeur, it simply caught my attention.

sobriyah 02-11-2010 06:14

Sydney Tim - we cancelled our Pantaneus policy for that precise reason - they changed our hurricane cover to 'no box no season' - you could now be caught by a named storm anywhere and at any time of year and still be subject to a 25% deductible. Would you really want to stay at sea in a storm just to maintain 100% cover, and what about being caught in the mangroves or a marina when a late season storm like Tomas hits? Pantaneus were inflexible on this and I wondered just what I was paying the premium for. A pity their underwriters now take this view on hurricane cover as otherwise they are first rate.

speciald@ocens. 02-11-2010 06:30

I was moved from Vigalant to Chubb this year by my insurance broker. Chubb provides Caribbean coverage in the base package so I didn't have to buy a rider; saved me about $2000 for the year.

wolfenzee 02-11-2010 10:59

I have found that what varies is not so much rates as what is covered/offered and deductible. Commandeur's rate for the entire pacific and covering everything was about 1.5% of the value I asked for a quote on ($130,500 was the min their on-line calculator would allow).....a company here that would give me "full coverage" with in 75nm of my home port also charged about 1.5% of the claimed value.

SydneyTim 03-11-2010 05:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by sobriyah (Post 552538)
Sydney Tim - we cancelled our Pantaneus policy for that precise reason - they changed our hurricane cover to 'no box no season' - you could now be caught by a named storm anywhere and at any time of year and still be subject to a 25% deductible. Would you really want to stay at sea in a storm just to maintain 100% cover, and what about being caught in the mangroves or a marina when a late season storm like Tomas hits? Pantaneus were inflexible on this and I wondered just what I was paying the premium for. A pity their underwriters now take this view on hurricane cover as otherwise they are first rate.

Just to be clear it's 100% coverage if hauled in the approved manner, 25% deductible in a marina, hurricane mooring or anchored in mangroves.

For us it's swings and roundabouts on hurricane coverage, 25% deductible if we get caught by one versus 100% freedom to cruise year round, world wide and the ability to pro actively get out of dodge if a hurricane is coming rather than being trapped by the box.

It's easy to see a nightmare scenario either way but Tomas is a reasonable example. If we were in Grenada with Tomas arriving, we would be able to leave and sail further north to the BVIs say to increase the chances of it missing us - a more conventional policy would force us to stay in the hurricanes path due to the box. (Please no posts on the specifics of this plan, I am just using it as an illustration of the concept, we weren't there and so not monitoring the situation hourly!)

Yes a December hurricane could clear us up in the Bahamas but it will clear up anyone with a season and a box as well - best thing is to try not to get hit by one in the first place and the lack of restrictions makes that a 100% sailing decision not a financial one.

Like I say it's a personal choice, it suits us and we have found them flexible in our discussions re hurricane preparedness and we are happy with the current wording that we have.

By the way there is sort of a box in that north of Hatteras the clause lapses.

Mark - I would still be interested in what wording Commandeur sent you, as I very much liked their policy and price, it was just the strong room clause as I like to think we are more likely to get robbed than be in a hurricane!

off-the-grid 17-08-2011 13:15

Re: Cruising Insurance Company for the Carribbean
 
I know this is a really old thread, but I think some people need to read their policies more closely. I got a quote from Commandeur just a few days ago, and it has the same clause as described earlier.

Quote:

theft, provided that it was preceded by forcible entry into into locked up storage rooms on the vessel or into locked up storage rooms ashore
With all the toys I have aboard...laptops, cameras, bike, kayak, dive gear, etc. that one could be a deal breaker.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TabbyCat (Post 493597)
The last time I looked at the Commandeur policy it excluded coverage for injuries to your guests while they were aboard you vessel. So I guess that means you have to have happy hour on someone else's boat.

Even worse it excluded passengers aboard the dink, and while boarding or un-boarding both. Considering I plan on chartering, I think this may be an even bigger deal breaker for me.

Don1500 18-08-2011 04:36

Re: Cruising Insurance Company for the Carribbean
 
Most of the boats I have had cost less than the insurance would. I would just like to know a "Ball Park" figure for a 35' sailboat, liability only. Is it $500 a year or $5000?

Ellis McKinley 20-08-2011 13:52

Re: Cruising Insurance Company for the Carribbean
 
I used IMIS for years for all of Caribbean, South America, Panama Canal, Pacific Central America and Mexico. They also allow a crew of two for all your passages.

teejayevans 20-08-2011 18:13

Re: Cruising Insurance Company for the Carribbean
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ellis McKinley (Post 755197)
I used IMIS for years for all of Caribbean, South America, Panama Canal, Pacific Central America and Mexico. They also allow a crew of two for all your passages.

Singlehanders need not apply...
Tom

Don1500 20-08-2011 18:57

Re: Cruising Insurance Company for the Carribbean
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ellis McKinley (Post 755197)
I used IMIS for years for all of Caribbean, South America, Panama Canal, Pacific Central America and Mexico. They also allow a crew of two for all your passages.

So ball park answer = $???

Jon Hacking 20-08-2011 19:55

Re: Cruising Insurance Company for the Carribbean
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Don1500 (Post 753551)
Most of the boats I have had cost less than the insurance would. I would just like to know a "Ball Park" figure for a 35' sailboat, liability only. Is it $500 a year or $5000?

Don, liability is usually quite cheap. Our broker (RBS in South Africa) quoted $250/yr for $1M of liability coverage if we decided to start chartering, but that's added on to our existing policy. I don't know what a liability (only) policy would cost. Typical premiums for hull insurance run 1-2% of insured value per year.

Don1500 20-08-2011 21:09

Re: Cruising Insurance Company for the Carribbean
 
That's what I was looking for. It sounds reasonable at least, but that is for some coverage that I may not need. Chartering is not on the table right now. Anyone have a figure for Liability and Hull coverage, pleasure boat, East Coast of the US to the Carib.

Jon Hacking 20-08-2011 22:12

Re: Cruising Insurance Company for the Carribbean
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Don1500 (Post 755452)
That's what I was looking for. It sounds reasonable at least, but that is for some coverage that I may not need. Chartering is not on the table right now. Anyone have a figure for Liability and Hull coverage, pleasure boat, East Coast of the US to the Carib?

Go ahead & ping Chandre Stemmers at RBS. She doesn't bite.:whistling: Usually, the side issues (dinghy, theft, liability, etc) are a small fraction of the basic boat premium, but a lot depends on your deductible (ours is $5K, which is just over what we lost in the last lightning strike:(). If you're looking for a ball-park figure, it's usually about 1.4% of whatever value you want to insure your boat for. Do you need more accuracy than 2 digits?:popcorn:

The Caribbean brings up special issues, as very few companies will cover you during hurricane season. RBS quoted us an extra $1K for Caribbean coverage during hurricane season. Some places are not happy insuring us Yanks because of our sue-happy history. US underwriters simply charge us (WAY) more.

While we're talking about insurance, you might consider DAN evacuation insurance. Dirt cheap (they're non-profit) - they'll cover a family of 4 for only $140 for their full meal deal. They paid for me to fly from Seychelles to Jo'burg for emergency eye surgery (they even paid for the surgery) & they also helicoptered our son out of the Himalayas when he got altitude sick. Highly recommended.

Don1500 20-08-2011 23:17

Re: Cruising Insurance Company for the Carribbean
 
This was what I was looking for. The observation that a US company would charge more is telling. The numbers you mentioned are about what I was looking for. They come out to around $140 per $10000 of valuation, which is not prohibitive. I will check out Chandre Stemmers as soon as I know which boat I will be buying and how much insurance I will need.

Jon Hacking 21-08-2011 06:17

Re: Cruising Insurance Company for the Carribbean
 
Good Luck! Feel free to tell Chandre you got her name from us.

ErikFinn 02-09-2011 00:41

Re: Cruising Insurance Company for the Carribbean
 
Sent an email to IMIS and Commandeur on (Wednesday) asking for approved or recommended surveyors; IMIS replied almost instantly but until today (Friday) Commandeur has not replied.
Erik


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