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-   -   To the marina or to anchor? (https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f118/to-the-marina-or-to-anchor-3725.html)

rsn48 12-04-2006 10:17

To the marina or to anchor?
 
In a way this topic could be a poll, but I am more interested in the process of "why" rather than the end result of "how." When I first started sailing with my buddies, we would go to marinas every night. The purpose of the sail seem to be from pub to pub.

Latter as I did more sailing on my own I started avoiding marinas and instead enjoyed the "gungholing" experience of anchoring and exploring. Sometimes the trip would only be anchoring in sheltered areas and we never left the boat; content to stay on board and do whatever to pass the time away.

I'm not saying there is anything wrong with marinas, as I still enjoy them. But I wondering if you moved through a similar process. Do you still mostly moor at marinas, or is the majority of your anchoring in more secluded, unsupported areas? :sprint:

Alan Wheeler 12-04-2006 12:10

I think the answer is relationship based. Because the one thing I enjoy is meeting fellow cruisers. I am not a crowd person. I would simply not go to a Pub if I did not know anyone. I would if a few freinds decided lets go up for a meal and a drink. But if I am in a place with no one I know, and no other boats around, I am very happy to just sit at anchor and take in the view, go to the shore and explore, etc etc. The only time I would go to a Marina is to gain access to a town and facilities, if I can't get into it when on anchor.

ssullivan 12-04-2006 13:10

We like to get as far away as possible. Just like you, in my younger days it was all about going out to the different bars. Well, I guess even back then I would gunkhole with my ex-girlfriend. I think when you are out with the guys the bars thing becomes more of a factor. :)

Now, I like to get as far away from civilization as possible and enjoy unspoiled nature.

rleslie 12-04-2006 13:39

Laundry/Showers
 
My wife and I love to anchor out but she insists on a good shower and a place to do laundry every 3-4 days. We usually spend 2 nights in the marina, then 4 on the hook. This has worked well for the last 3 months cruising around Florida. Not sure what we will do next winter in the Bahamas.

Roger

Pblais 12-04-2006 16:24

We travel with friends and members of our yacht club. When calm we do big raft ups. We can party or some times we just fine a quiet creek to drop the hook in. Chesapeake has loads of these places. Some have towns and others have nothing. My wife needs to get on land every 3 - 4 days too. We ca take a decent shower on the boat so that helps a lot.

ssullivan 12-04-2006 17:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pblais
We travel with friends and members of our yacht club. When calm we do big raft ups.

Now THAT is a lot of fun. I haven't had as many people to do that with lately. I look forward to some fun raft-ups again in the future.

Gotta say... I got lucky again. The wife is happy being away from land as long as I am. In fact, even during our delivery of this boat from Wisconsin to Long Island (by water), we went ashore only to provision and eat 1 meal out. It was something like a 2000 mile trip.

Pblais 12-04-2006 18:15

How about 12 boats! We do some big rafts in the Seaford Yacht Club. It helps to have some big boats to hold the anchor. A 48 ft Crogan and a 55 ft Fleming are pretty nice anchors. Power boats are good for a few things. Add to that a pot luck and you get a nice evening.

The trick is knowing when the raft has to break up. When mother nature calls you best answer the phone.

Sandero 13-04-2006 16:30

I have never liked spending even a night in a marina for many reasons. Little privacy... the wind is usually less and does not blow thru the boat unless it is lying exactly into the wind... noisy... smelly... light pollution...

I love to anchor off and enjoy the play of the boat in the wind... it's one of the sweetest parts of sailing.

irwinsailor 13-04-2006 16:50

We keep our boat anchored all the time. I do not have a slip and when we travel we don't go to marinas. In this area a slip for our boat is at least $75. per night.

CaptainK 13-04-2006 17:00

Quote:

defjef once whispered in the wind

Little privacy... the wind is usually less and does not blow thru the boat unless it is lying exactly into the wind... noisy... smelly... light pollution...
defjef.

If you're referring to NYC? The city that you have mentioned on your biography. Then it's no wonder you're complaining. Overcrowded marinas and the pollution from the city will be very evident around you. In this case!!:eek: :sprint:

Sandero 13-04-2006 17:05

CaptainK

We live in lower westchester but have a mooring in delightful Shelter Island 100 east. My comment refers to ANY marina that I have been around for the past 20 yrs... How about Newport RI.. ICK.... we prefer even the crowded anchorage new Ida Lewis.

When I lived aboard in the Caribbean, I did like the Dockyard in English Harbor, but this is hardly a marina by US standards. Even there, I anchored off...

Jef
sv Shiva
Contest 36s

CaptainK 13-04-2006 18:28

Alrighty then.

So "any" marina. Are you referring "just" along the east coast & the gulf coast? Or just anywhere in the world?

I just had to ask that. Cause you didn't really specify that, in your original "question" post!!

Brent Swain 13-04-2006 18:42

Marinas
 
In the last 22 years that I've owned my current boat,I've never paid to tie to a dock. I can cruise full time for what many people pay to tie to a dock , people who complain about the cost of cruising.I have cruised 10 or 11 months a year since I was 26 years old. Cutting costs is the easiest way to accomplish that.
Brent

ssullivan 14-04-2006 14:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lois Riel
In the last 22 years that I've owned my current boat,I've never paid to tie to a dock. I can cruise full time for what many people pay to tie to a dock , people who complain about the cost of cruising.I have cruised 10 or 11 months a year since I was 26 years old. Cutting costs is the easiest way to accomplish that.
Brent

Wow... that is one impressive record! What do you do (or does everyone do) when they have to leave the boat for a couple weeks at a time?

I had never thought of leaving it at anchor... don't know why... but it hadn't entered my mind. Any tricks?

PS: I have a trick actually... I am writing a little piece of software to allow my computer to send me a text message if my anchor drags. :)

CaptainK 14-04-2006 14:28

Hey Sean.

If you could actually come up with some kind of computer program. Designed to moniter the anchor. Along with some kind of gadget that goes with the program. I'll buy it!!:D

Sandero 14-04-2006 14:42

You can leave your boat on a mooring, which is like being anchored, but with much heavier gound tackle and someone who presumably watches out for the vessels on their moorings.

I have only paid for a slip or dock a few times in 20 yrs, once at then end of the Marion Bermuda race, and once when I sailed to Portland and waited for someone to arrive... who I had to pick up. As I recall there wasn't much of an anchorage in Portland...

Pblais 14-04-2006 14:49

Dear Sean,

This is your computer. I've dragged anchor and am headed to places unknown. I've activated the GPS tracking so if you ever do find me you can trace back to all the owners of everything I bounced off and probably destroyed.

I have a pretty good head start on you so catch me if you can. Sailing really is mostly about being there.

ssullivan 14-04-2006 15:10

DefJef: How do you use a mooring without paying? The old chew and scr*ew??

Paul: Pretty funny! ha ha I was thinking of having it send something just like what you wrote actually. Even though it would be a very stressful time, at least it would remind you to keep a sense of humor. Really though... I am attempting to find out if I can access (find a pointer to) the actual GPS location, so it could send out coordinates, or some track info so I would know what general direction it took off in.

CaptainK: I'm not writing all this from scratch. I'm writing a small program to interface with my chartplotting software. It would poll the chart plotting software for an "anchor drag status", then send out the text message if it happens, along with some other data. This will only run on OSX, so I'm not selling it! :) Maybe I'll give it away or put it up as shareware when I'm done.

CaptainK 14-04-2006 15:38

Quote:

ssullivan once whispered in the wind
This will only run on OSX, so I'm not selling it! :) Maybe I'll give it away or put it up as shareware when I'm done.
Hey Sean.

I'll take it for free!!:D

Sandero 14-04-2006 16:14

Of course you have to pay for rental moorings. My point was that I avoid marinas like the plague and if I had to leave my boat, I would prefer a mooring to a slip. More safe, secure, clean and less expensive.

ssullivan 14-04-2006 17:26

DefJef:

I was joking a bit... I assumed you meant something else. Anyway, I prefer moorings over slips too. Slips annoy me since I like my boat to point into the wind (except when sailing!) :)

I was more wondering how cruisers leave their boats for extended periods of time, and if anyone has done this without paying for a slip/mooring. Alas, this is probably a thread hijack, so I'll start a new thread to cover that quesiton.

ssullivan 14-04-2006 17:27

Rick.... ha ha ha... funny! I like that.

Pblais 14-04-2006 17:42

Sean,

Let me know what you are up to. I write software for a living. If you need help I'm yours. There has to be another fool that would pay for stuff like this. It would a hoot. The only thing I ask is I have to be CC: ed on the the mail when you drag (maybe you won't). That way I could post it here before you got back :) . Even with selective availability off you still have a 75 Ft range of error. That boat is really going to have to be long gone before you get the message or you will be really ticked off.

Also one phone call from the Pentagon and the GPS error turns into 150 yards. I was in the GPS biz back when they first turned SA on. Anchor drag on a GPS isn't worth much. When it works it's too late.

Some neighbors were bringing a trawler back to VA from FL and in NC they dragged at night. They went 2 miles before they woke up in the middle of the night on the Ditch. They were lucky! They never hit anything!

Luck still counts! Pray for more.

hammerfelt 14-04-2006 19:58

I love being on the hook, but I have also done the marina thing, and have enjoyed both. However this has been on the Chesapeake, where the marinas on the Eastern shore are a real thing to visit.

Sean's idea is excellent -- maybe I would also leave my own boat on the hook then. What ways do you have of connecting your computer to navigation software? I have an old titanium I could use, but my garmin 76 only hooks up to an old PC with the serioal cable... I am interested in finding out what other mac users are doing by way of software, charts, and connectivity.

The text message idea is excellent!!! Perhaps it could also broadcast whenever SA is off... Then you know not to worry if it says you're draggind 150 ft.

Eugene

Tropic Cat 14-04-2006 21:59

Florida Marina's are disappearing
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptainK
So "any" marina. Are you referring "just" along the east coast & the gulf coast? Or just anywhere in the world?....

Gentlemen,

The way Marina's are disappearing here in Florida (lost to condo projects) and the way cities like Miami have basically banned cruisers from anchoring, this discussion might have to specifically name the country you plan on cruising in. :mad:

Rick in Florida

CaptainK 14-04-2006 22:36

Quote:

The way Marina's are disappearing here in Florida (lost to condo projects) and the way cities like Miami have basically banned cruisers from anchoring, this discussion might have to specifically name the country you plan on cruising in.
I couldn't disagree with you more, on this subject.

A while back here on the forum. I forgot who mentioned it. But, the issue of Florida's marina's disappearing due to building more & more condo's.

It's the landowners fault mostly here? They're greedy. And they know they can make more money. By building more condo's.:eek:

As for the issue about Miami, no allowing cruisers to anchor. I seriously didn't know about that issue. Now that's another bad example of Miami for you there!!

Talbot 15-04-2006 06:13

Sean

Others have been experimenting with use of messages from onboard. However nobody has bothered with the anchor circle routine, primarily for the reasons already given.

However co and speed through the water and position can give early information on the boat being stolen. bilge pump activation is seen as an important message. as are smoke/gas/fire alarms and intruder alerts. IMHO you also need to add battery alert, and the elegant way to forward the alert is by mobile text message or by email (dependent on life style)

Tropic Cat 15-04-2006 06:27

a response
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptainK
I couldn't disagree with you more, on this subject.

CaptainK.. now where in my post did I assign blame to landowners? I merely stated a fact, marinas are disappearing, and no new ones are being built.

Greedy landowners? Did I press a button here? People have the right to do whatever they want with their property, as long as it conforms to the law. If you insist on assigning blame, how about the cities, counties and state for not setting aside waterfront property for boaters just as they've dilligently and responsibly set aside land for parks and recreation?

As to the city of Miami, do a search, it's all over the internet and mentioned in any sailing magazine I've picked up in the last 15 months. It would seem that the view from those lovely million dollar condos built on waterways is being spoiled by those undesirable cruisers.

Now why is it that a factual post is made to this forum and uninformed people attack? I've done my homework, it's unavoidable as I live here.


Rick in Florida

swagman 15-04-2006 07:17

We like both...........
 
We go into marinas when we want a good restaurant, bar or just to tour inland and explore.

IMO if all one ever does is sail - I don't think really experience the world - you just see either ocean or a coastline.

We also stop at anchor when we find a nice spot, want a quiet night, and wish to save money.

IMHO, both can be more than just enjoyable most of the time.

Cheers
JOHN

Brent Swain 15-04-2006 12:35

Moor or anchor
 
Luckily I live in a part of the world where landlocked , perfect hurricane holes are plentiful. Two big delta anchors of the stern ( off the bow she swings more and thus puts more chafe and load on the ground tackle) hold her in any conditions .Metal hatches , locked from the inside by reaching thru a ventilator would make a break in a half day project , impossible without power tools. A low crime rate as well as friends living aboard nearby , makes leaving the boat for several weeks at a time an easy option.
Those solar panel yard lights make good anchor lights , very easy on kerosene.
Brent

GordMay 15-04-2006 12:42

Brent:
Brent:
As a displaced Manitoban, who holds the patriot Louis Riel in great esteem, I wonder if your user name (Lois Riel) is intentionally misspelled?

ssullivan 16-04-2006 05:23

Paul,

Yes, the idea is to send myself a text message when there is a gross drag. Not a small drag that results in a reset, but a dangerous drag where the boat is heading out without me.

I'll drop you a line when I get to work on this, in a few months. (Still finishing up this re-fit.. we are finally at spring work! Topsides, deck, bottom paint, etc...)

The tough part about writing the PC version will be getting the APIs to status indicators in various programs like Maptech or whatever you all use. On OSX, I use a program that freely allows me to use AppleScript to extend its abilities. It's quite simple from a development perspective.

PS: I started my live as a C++ developer before opening a software development and management consulting firm in Manhattan. Then I said "screw it!" and here I am living a better life. :)

I'll drop you a line when I get started. Maybe we can work together. I'll write the OSX version and you can write the PC version?


Quote:

Originally Posted by Pblais
Sean,

Let me know what you are up to. I write software for a living. If you need help I'm yours. There has to be another fool that would pay for stuff like this. It would a hoot. The only thing I ask is I have to be CC: ed on the the mail when you drag (maybe you won't). That way I could post it here before you got back :) . Even with selective availability off you still have a 75 Ft range of error. That boat is really going to have to be long gone before you get the message or you will be really ticked off.

Also one phone call from the Pentagon and the GPS error turns into 150 yards. I was in the GPS biz back when they first turned SA on. Anchor drag on a GPS isn't worth much. When it works it's too late.

Some neighbors were bringing a trawler back to VA from FL and in NC they dragged at night. They went 2 miles before they woke up in the middle of the night on the Ditch. They were lucky! They never hit anything!

Luck still counts! Pray for more.


ssullivan 16-04-2006 05:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Talbot
Sean

Others have been experimenting with use of messages from onboard. However nobody has bothered with the anchor circle routine, primarily for the reasons already given.

However co and speed through the water and position can give early information on the boat being stolen. bilge pump activation is seen as an important message. as are smoke/gas/fire alarms and intruder alerts. IMHO you also need to add battery alert, and the elegant way to forward the alert is by mobile text message or by email (dependent on life style)

Possible mis-communication here. I have been posting very quickly, since we are in our last couple weeks of readying this boat after re-fit and I'm only online for like 10 mins a day. I am not writing this software with the intent to cater to anyone else's needs but my own. I want to know if my boat is dragging away. That's it. I can whip this up in a week or so and use it. If I was planning on marketing something like this, the first place I wouldn't post it is on the internet. :)

So... I'll leave someone else to make big $$$ off it. I'm done with that kind of life anyway. I'm now enjoying life... no more stressful corporate crap for me.

Sandero 16-04-2006 06:33

Is this anchor drag messaging a serious thing? What can you do about your boat dragging if you are not in a position to do something about it? What am I missing?

Jef
sv Shiva
Contest 36s

ssullivan 17-04-2006 14:33

Um... you can cut short your vacation and come back to find your boat before it ends up on some rocks??

How is that not useful? Am I missing something too?

Pblais 17-04-2006 14:45

I think he means you can't really hope to get there in time to be able to do anything significant. At best you might however be able to call someone else that was already near there, has a boat, and could look for it.

Sandero 17-04-2006 15:02

4 real?
 
When you cruise to a "new harbor" chances of knowing someone who will be there to do something are pretty small. Add to that, the dragging probably is the result of some nasty weather and they (your contact) may be dealing with his own boat. Add to that they would need to know either how to get your boat going and re anchor or secure it to a dock.. or have a boat they could use to tow it to safety. This all seems like rather unlikely.

I can see some sort of alarm to warn you that your boat has been stolen and could be tracked... but anchor dragging... I don't buy it..

Brent Swain 18-04-2006 13:27

Mooring
 
Accidentally misspelled. May change it if possible.
An anchored sailboat is light years more aestheitcally pleasing than condos , which are absolute eyesores.
As there are so many civilised areas to cruise in why bother with a hole,like Florida.An Alaskan hiking home from Florida said it sure felt good to get out of Florida with their hostile attitude problem. He said the further north he got the friendlier the people were.Cruise where the crowds aint.
With a steel twin keeler in our landlocked anchorages, dragging is a minor inconvenience.
A friend has his boat moored in San Carlos where they have a computer camera mounted . He can tune into that camera from home and watch his boat swinging on the mooring any time day or night. Knowing a local within sight of your boat can let you set up this type of rig.
Brent

ssullivan 18-04-2006 14:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by hammerfelt
I love being on the hook, but I have also done the marina thing, and have enjoyed both. However this has been on the Chesapeake, where the marinas on the Eastern shore are a real thing to visit.

Sean's idea is excellent -- maybe I would also leave my own boat on the hook then. What ways do you have of connecting your computer to navigation software? I have an old titanium I could use, but my garmin 76 only hooks up to an old PC with the serioal cable... I am interested in finding out what other mac users are doing by way of software, charts, and connectivity.

The text message idea is excellent!!! Perhaps it could also broadcast whenever SA is off... Then you know not to worry if it says you're draggind 150 ft.

Eugene

Hi Eugene,

Sorry... missed your post. I'm not on so much this time of year. Anyway, I use MacENC, which I couldn't say enough about. It's sooooo cheap and does everything the expensive PC-based software does. I have a USB GPS that plugs right into my Mac. This gives real-time chartplotting ability. All in, it's only about $200 for the GPS AND software. Since the ENCs are free, it's quite a deal. I opted for a BSB CD-ROM they have that allows you to see the old traditional charts just to make you feel better when transitioning.

Do a quick Google for "MacENC" and you'll find it right away. GREAT PROGRAM! Plus, I can use AppleScript to allow it to text message me. Only will work when I have a WiFi signal, but that's most of the time. :)

ssullivan 18-04-2006 14:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by defjef
I can see some sort of alarm to warn you that your boat has been stolen and could be tracked... but anchor dragging... I don't buy it..

Have you ever left your boat at anchor to go on a vacation? Were you able to relax while you were in the mountains or skiing or whatever knowing the boat was at anchor the whole time unattended?

Me... I worry about these things. So, this is a way for me to put my mind at ease, knowing that if something did happen, I'd be able to cut my trip short and head back to find out what's going on. Anchor drag AND theft would both trigger a message, since it's a radius alarm...

Anyway, it doesn't matter who "buys it" since it's not for sale. It's a personal tool I want to use for my own peace of mind.


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