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DennisM 10-02-2010 04:49

Advice on a Cruising Spinnaker
 
I'm thinking about adding a Doyle asymmetrical spinnaker to my boat. According to the brochure the The Doyle Utility Power Sail--UPS will not only provide a push on downwind but will also help me point a bit higher. It also offers the convenience of a furler, which will help a lot, I think, when single handing.

I have also been pitched by my local (infamous) sailboat guy to purchase a North Sail asymm.

Any thoughts, advice, insights, experience would be most welcome.

svHyLyte 10-02-2010 07:01

If you regularly sail in very light air that assym can be worthwhile. We have had assyms on our boats since the mid-1980's (a Neil Pryde on our Cal 2-29 and, more recently, an Ullman on our First 42). Our's were/are good from about 50 to 160 apparent. DDW is difficult but takes too much concentration (for us) for an extended period. If I were doing it over, on the big boat I think I would have gotten one of North's Code 0's on a removable furling drum.

FWIW...

sbenest 10-02-2010 07:05

Hi Dennis
If you haven't got a spinnaker at the moment then definately you will enjoy a far better experience downwind with one.For single or short handed sailing then the furling asymetric is absolutely the way to go. you woul be ablle to attatch the tack to the base of the forstay fitting where your jib tack goes or, if you have a spinnaker pole the you could attatch the spinnaker tack to the poleand keep the pole at the lifeline height. The benifit of this is that you can square the pole as you go further downwind.
I have raced assymetric boats for years and the definately can go a lot higher than traditional symetric kites.

Boyh Doyle and North are excellent products so I would suggest you choose the best price and ask what support youi will get. Will they come out with you and check the sail fits and works properly. Any sailmaker worth his salt should do this.

Joli 10-02-2010 07:12

Doesn't matter who you buy it from, North and Doyle are both good.

We like our assy and use an ATN. We've considered using a furler but our sailmaker has said he has not had good experience with them with assy's. they work fine with code 0's but you'll not dive as deep with a 0 versus the assy.

Good luck and have fun.

DennisM 10-02-2010 07:33

Thank you very much for all. Yes, I do sail in light air quite a bit, especially here on the Hudson River. And yes, the sailmaker will send a rep to come out and show me how to operate it. Thank you again for the insights. It is a relief to know, for example, that both Doyle and North make quality products.

DennisM 10-02-2010 08:15

1 Attachment(s)
Perhaps someone can help me solve this mystery. Maybe sbenest? According to the attached diagram, the asymm I'm considering will help me point higher (as both you and I have mentioned). How does that work?

Joli 10-02-2010 08:30

That's really more of a code 0. It's free flying but has a luff and can be considered a large genoa, it will be able to point in the light stuff. It won't be as efficient as an assy as you go deeper.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DennisM (Post 401743)
Perhaps someone can help me solve this mystery. Maybe sbenest? According to the attached diagram, the asymm I'm considering will help me point higher (as both you and I have mentioned). How does that work?


Eric50 10-02-2010 08:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by DennisM (Post 401743)
Perhaps someone can help me solve this mystery. Maybe sbenest? According to the attached diagram, the asymm I'm considering will help me point higher (as both you and I have mentioned). How does that work?

Wow !!! The diagram sounds bit optimistic for a regular cruising sailboat!

It shows that 50% of close reach can be done with the asy up to 33 of apparent wind!!!

Unless you have a very fast boat at reaching, and a very good one indeed, these figures are not realistic for most of the leisure sailboats;

FYI, our boat is able ideally to go 33 of apparent wind upwind in perfect conditions with a 10 knots breeze and flat sea...but under Main and genoa, not asymetric !

The 53' boat has a 2,6 m (8,5 feet) deep fin keel and bulb, and she's reputed to be a (very) fast cruiser, capable of 8 to 10 knots speed upwind...in those condition...

On the other hand, this diagram may be for multihulls, which is then more applicable?

DennisM 10-02-2010 08:43

Hmmmm.... there wasn't any indication on the literature about mono vs. multihull. I'll ask the sailmaker. Thanks.

Bash 10-02-2010 08:45

I took a long look at the Doyle UPS, but in the end opted for a North G3, and I'm happy with the decision after having sailed the G3 for a few years. North's claim that the G3 is a "set it and forget it" design is not just marketing hype. After I trim the sail I set the autopilot to vane mode, and that's it. The sail stays happy for hours without any need for further trim. I couldn't do that for more than ten minutes with the a-chute on my previous boat.

Bottom line: if you're never going to fly the chute for more than an hour at a time before striking it, the UPS is ideal. But if you're a cruiser who wants to be able to put up a chute and keep it up all day, the North cruising gennakers might be more suitable.

DennisM 10-02-2010 08:52

Thank you, Bash. I'll take a close look at the G3.

sbenest 10-02-2010 08:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by DennisM (Post 401743)
Perhaps someone can help me solve this mystery. Maybe sbenest? According to the attached diagram, the asymm I'm considering will help me point higher (as both you and I have mentioned). How does that work?

In basic terms the sail is cut flatter than a symetric with the maximun draft slightly forward of centre therefore when you need to tight reach and you have the kite sheeted on tight the lift from the sail is not all at 90 degrees to the boat and just dragging you sideways

DennisM 10-02-2010 09:01

Thank you, Jim (sbenest). Having just completed a JWorld course in "Performance Cruising," where I learned some things I needed to know about sail trim and sail shape, your answer actually makes sense to me.


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