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-   -   Good god... I'm losing it. Battery switches?? (https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f14/good-god-im-losing-it-battery-switches-3426.html)

CaptainK 12-03-2006 10:16

Yeah.

Just like with Kai Nui. He has pushed his launching date for his trimaran, (Kai Nui 3). He's still at the sanding and fairing stage.

So I know where you guys are coming from!!

CaptainK 12-03-2006 10:38

My List!!
 
To get Panga seaworthy:

#1. Demast mast. Remove masthead. Remove sheeves, and replace with new ones.
#2. I have a couple of stanchion mounting holes, that are oversized. I have to put in epoxy in the holes. Let them harden. And redrill holes. And mount all the stanchion poles.
#3. Run the stanchion wire cables through their holes. Mounting them.
#4. Get a outboard. I have no inboard engine.
#5. Get dock lines for boat. And prepare them at apporiate locations.
#6. Get batteries for boat.
#7. Connect and hook up VHF radio.
#8. Connect my multimeter. Depthfinder/Knotmeter device. All in one electronic device.
#9. Check anchor. And rig line to anchor chain.
#10. Hookup gas containers to the outboard. And setup and fasten down to their spot.
#11. Connect toilet and related plumbing to holding tank. And install front wall with door. To the bulkhead.
#12. Install new bulbs into the overhead cabin lights. And put covers back on them.
#13. Clean and setup propane stove. Hookup propane tank. Test the system.
#14. Install hard water tank. Remove bladder water tank.
#15. Test battery charger. Making sure that it's hooked up to the system properly.
#16. Rig bimmini (dodger) over the cockpit area.
#17. Install stern rail. (My boat does not have original stern rail. Does not even have one..Period!!
#18. Install fire extingushers.
#19. Replace running rigging.


Later projects:

#1. Repair worn down areas on top of cabin nad deck. Using epoxy as the main material.
#2. Paint the cabin and deck areas with White gelcoat paint.
#3. Remount seat/cover for lazerettes in cockpit. One of them is loose. Hinge is not mounted to cockpit bulkhead seating area.
#4. Replace misc. hardware in cockpit.
#5. Paint cockpit with white gelcoat paint. Continuation from earlier paint job.
#6. Sand down all teak wood, at the entrance way to cabin.
#7. Build new drawers for settees and other areas with drawers.
#8. Build new shelves and stoarge bins for the portside bulkhead. Forward of the galley area.
#9. Remodel navigation area. Add shelves, drawers and lighting there.
#10. Install fire suppression system for entire boat.

Alan Wheeler 12-03-2006 12:18

To the Starter issue Sean. There are two types of starters. A soliniod engaging one and a bendix engaging one. The solinoid is easy to spot. It is a little unit mounted on top of the main starter motor. Ensure this is being thrown out. It will go clunk when you apply 12V to it.
The other is Bendix and is what I imagine the most likely. The starter uses resistance to momentum to throw a gear along a spiral shaft. The shaft needs to be greased. Use grease sparingly. Or it will casue the gear to not shoot along the shaft fast enough. No, it should not be a battery voltage issue. 13V is waaay high enough as long as the internals of the starter are Ok.
When you pull the starter apart, you will most likely find it corroded inside. Pull it apart and give it a good clean with a wire buff wheel and then lightly lubricate.
Give me a yell if yoiu need to know how to pull the internals apart.
CUATION:, try not to pull the armature out of the case unless you have to. It is always a pain in the neck to get it back into the brushes.
Also, check all bearings when it is apart. They can casue the starter to not turn over fast enough and stop the gear from engaging. They will most likely be brass bushes and they wear. There should be very little slop in the shaft.

ssullivan 12-03-2006 12:21

Whew!!! I got tired again just reading your list. :)

You have some pretty good sized projects ahead of you too. So will you be able to have some time off of work to do them, or do you have to do them on nights and weekends?

CaptainK 12-03-2006 12:29

It'll be nights and looonnnggg weekends, Sean.

This will start around late August or Early September of this year.

After I move out of Phoenix, Arizona. I will be temporarly be in Moss Landing, California. Home base of Kai Nui. And fix her up while I'm there.

After that I'm moving the boat under power and by sail to the "Delta" region of northern California. Near Stockton, California.

That will be my homeport.

ssullivan 12-03-2006 17:23

Wheels... very kind of you to come in on this thread with advice on the starter problem. I am quite thankful. This is one task I feel I'm really pushing my limits with... but I need to know how to fix it, so I must blaze on! :)

My starter is new as of 1 month prior to my taking delivery. It was always flaky... it would often not engage the flywheel on the first push of the start button. Now... it was worsened. (The starter was installed less than 1 year ago.. and it's brand new.. Still very clean)

I think it might be the solenoid type because it consists of a large cylinder where the motor is located, and a smaller cylinder atop that where the power comes in. The larger cylinder clearly has the part that protrudes into the engine to reach the flywheel. Based on what you said... I think this is a solenoid type.

I'm having trouble recalling if there is a "click" before the whirr of the starter spinning without flywheel contact. There used to be. I think possibly there is no click anymore. I'm going to finish taking it out tomorrow (took the day off today - kind of) and see what things look like inside. I definitely do not plan to disassemble the whole thing right off. I'll observe it a little bit and possibly take it to a shop for testing.

Thanks for the offer of help. Since we're in the "Power Equipment & Electricity" section... lord knows I'll need it! ha ha ha


Quote:

Alan Wheeler once whispered in the wind:
To the Starter issue Sean. There are two types of starters. A soliniod engaging one and a bendix engaging one. The solinoid is easy to spot. It is a little unit mounted on top of the main starter motor. Ensure this is being thrown out. It will go clunk when you apply 12V to it.
The other is Bendix and is what I imagine the most likely. The starter uses resistance to momentum to throw a gear along a spiral shaft. The shaft needs to be greased. Use grease sparingly. Or it will casue the gear to not shoot along the shaft fast enough. No, it should not be a battery voltage issue. 13V is waaay high enough as long as the internals of the starter are Ok.
When you pull the starter apart, you will most likely find it corroded inside. Pull it apart and give it a good clean with a wire buff wheel and then lightly lubricate.
Give me a yell if yoiu need to know how to pull the internals apart.
CUATION:, try not to pull the armature out of the case unless you have to. It is always a pain in the neck to get it back into the brushes.
Also, check all bearings when it is apart. They can casue the starter to not turn over fast enough and stop the gear from engaging. They will most likely be brass bushes and they wear. There should be very little slop in the shaft.


Kai Nui 12-03-2006 17:50

Sean, First, no apologys. Your threads have contributed a tremendous amout to this forum.
As for the starter, you have a GM style as opposed to a Ford type (to simplify). The selenoid mounted on the starter is likely the culprit. These are notorious for failing even on a rebuilt starter. If I recall, you have a Perkins? Perkins uses the attached selenoid.
The selonoid is an electromagnet that pushes the bendix gear out to meet the flywheel. There is a secondary circuit that simaltaneously applies high amperage current to the starter motor. If this is not working properly, the starter will spin, but not engage the flywheel. The selenoid is available as a seperate unit, and is not very expensive. Having a spare is not a bad idea, so you may want to replace it, and see if it solves the problem (simple procedure). If not, you have a spare. 13.2v is, as Wheels noted, plenty of voltage to start the engine.
FWIW, the tri will be Kai Nui, not Kai Nui 3. Recent change, as the original Kai Nui has met her end.

ssullivan 12-03-2006 19:12

Wow, Kai Nui!

You really know your starters. You are correct. the starter actually has the words AC Delco etched into the side. GM all the way.

I'll look into the solenoid tommorrow and grease up that Bendix too, since that won't hurt.

I'll have to find a place around here to get the solenoid. I'm pretty happy to hear they aren't expensive. This re-fit is really over budget for us!


Thanks for the insight!

Kai Nui 12-03-2006 19:37

It sounds like you have good access, so you are fortunate. The only true downside I have found to the Challenger is engine access. Topend is no problem, but I also have a failed selenoid, and the only way to access it is to pull the engine. A project for another day:( A little light grease on the shaft is a good idea, but do not over do it. too much can slow down the return, causing the starter to hang.

ssullivan 13-03-2006 05:55

And to think I was complaining about my engine accesss. I suppose it is pretty good compared to having to pull the engine. I have to go in through a 1' x 1' square opening that is used both to access the oil filter and this area of the engine. The access panel is located on the port side in the master stateroom's shower. Picture a marine shower, then put a small hole in the very bottom of one of the walls. Now cram in there and try to reach through to the engine, a good foot inside this access panel.

It has actually taken me hours to remove 2 bolts. I'm on the third now, but you have to hold your body up on your elbows through the 1' x 1' opening and then use your wrists alone to spin wrenches.

Ahhhhh boats. So much fun. So when does the sailing start?? :)

I'll post a little follow up today when I find out what's going on with the starter.

Alan Wheeler 13-03-2006 12:01

Sean, PRACTICE!! Go buya jap car and practice by removing a component and replacing it. As you increase your skills, try a component deeper down in the mess. I swear that Japs don't build cars. They grow them from seed. Cause there is no human way to get at anything.;) :D

markpj23 13-03-2006 12:51

Hmmm... tough access to engine room .... that reminds me..

Maybe the biggest mistake I made in my life was that I never married that Navy Engineman I was dating in Guam. She was 5'4", loved to party and was a top-notch diesel mechanic. She was flexible enough to stuff in a bilge too..

If only I could have gotten used to kissing someone who smelled like diesel fuel....

Oh the stupid mistakes we make in life....
:D

:cheers:

ssullivan 13-03-2006 13:18

Ha ha ha...

Good input Mark. :)

I have the starter out, and I hooked it up to a 12V source. It turns out that the Benix is shot. The solenoid is ok, but there is a little spring and some kind of assembly that uses centrifugal force to engage the starter gear to the starter motor. This is not happening. It's just freewheeling, even though it is indeed in contact with the flywheel.

RATS... the more expensive repair. UGH

Kai Nui 13-03-2006 20:16

Not sure if I read you right, but the bendix is no big deal. It either has a circlip or a shear pin holding the gear on. A spring behind the gear. Pul it apart, and see if the problem is obvious. You should be able to buy a new spring, and/or gear as needed. Do not reuse the circlip or shear pin. If the probem is in the linkage, this too can be purchased. Simple to change. Worst case, save the pile of parts, and take it to the local starter rebuild place and say fix this. It shouldn't cost any more, and you increase your odds of a cheap fix, as well as you knowlege of how it works for future reference. Back in the day, when I was allot more flexible and allot thinner, I could get into places to fix anything, but these days, I would rather just pull the engine, and have easy access:D
As for diesel breath, it is a prerequesit! Won't marry a woman that won't siphon diesel:D

ssullivan 14-03-2006 07:04

Thanks, Kai Nui.

I was going to do as you suggested, but there is a severe difficulty finding things on Long Island. Nobody knows where to get parts... but there was a guy that had them 20 years ago. He retired yesterday... blah blah blah.....

It's plagued me through this entire re-fit.

So I have bring it to a re-build place since they will at least have the parts. Next time, I'll do it myself.


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