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bdbcat 18-09-2009 18:18

OpenCPN General
 
This thread is reserved for uncategorized comments, off-thread links, and anything else that you think opencpn users might like to talk about.

I will be browsing this thread casually.

Have fun...

Dave

bvimatelot 19-09-2009 09:21

Hooray - a thread for Techno-Cretins or Blonde Air Hostesses!! Maybe simple English will be used?

So: Firstly - Thanks for a great program: I've used it for a few months now, notably on a trip from BVI to Chesapeake via Bermuda and it was great.

Simple Question: A. What Version are we at now?
B. I downloaded 1.3.2 some time ago and then had 2 OpenCpn icons on my desktop (one had "beta" with it so that was the one I used): interestingly, one has since disappeared so the problem appears to have gone away. However, in the event of having 2 icons, which one do you hit?

best to all, Tony

LeaseOnLife 19-09-2009 09:58

Per Dave, we are very close to get a release of 1.3.4. With 1.3.2 you have the latest released version. There have been beta versions in between, latest is "build-917". But as of writing, the download location is unavailable right now. Send me a private message with your email, I send you the latest beta. Filesize ~2.2MB. Disclaimer: It has known bugs, check the other room: https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...cal-30929.html

bvimatelot 19-09-2009 10:10

Many tks - pm on the way! T

sinbad7 19-09-2009 10:35

1 Attachment(s)
bvimatelot..
Quote:

Simple Question: A. What Version are we at now?
B. I downloaded 1.3.2 some time ago and then had 2 OpenCpn icons on my desktop (one had "beta" with it so that was the one I used): interestingly, one has since disappeared so the problem appears to have gone away. However, in the event of having 2 icons, which one do you hit?
The latest version according to MY 'About OpenCPN' is 1.3.3 build 917

If you have two OpenCPN start icons on your desktop,just delete one of them as either should work. I normally re-name the icon to 'OpenCpn 917' Every new version just overwrites the present opencpn.exe file in your original opencpn directory.

For your info,I seem to be lucky enough to not having ANY crashes in this version and I am running Vista Home version.

LeaseOnLife 19-09-2009 11:02

Tool for georeferencing scanned charts?
 
I have a couple of chart books and can access a decent scanner.

Does anybody know a free (possibly open source) tool to geo-reference these scans?

I know Fugawi has a "calibration" tool, but only stores the results as a Fugawi specific file.

SeaClear comes with MapCal, which I haven't tried that yet. It seems to export to "WCI" format

It would be great to find a tool to create charts from graphic files, compatible with opencpn.

sinbad7 19-09-2009 11:34

LeaseOnLife..

Doesn't exist I'm afraid.. I did the same research for a conversion of raster .jpg format to BSB and the only company with such software is Fugawi but they only sell it to accredited dealers who has approval from the patent holders of the BSB format. The only accredited dealer Fugawi recommended was a company in Sweden and they were not allowed to do this type of conversion either.

I have used both Fugawi Marine ENC,Sea Clear and Shipplotter who all have their own conversion formats which are not compatible with anything else, and absolutely not the C-Map format.

I asked Dave some time ago whether there was a possibility in the future,making OpenCPN also compatible with scanned raster charts.

sinbad7 19-09-2009 12:57

Oziexplorer has an interesting map merge facility where raster maps in various formats can be merged into ONE large map in the scale of your choice. They also have a good night display option using the colors of red,blue or grey in various intensities.
However,the merged map can only be used in Oziexplorer. I am mentioning this just as examples for future versions of OpenCPN

barnakiel 19-09-2009 17:53

Cool. Good luck!

b.

blubaju 19-09-2009 18:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeaseOnLife (Post 334378)
...

Does anybody know a free (possibly open source) tool to geo-reference these scans?
.....

It would be great to find a tool to create charts from graphic files, compatible with opencpn.

I am still hunting this as the original link is dead:
SevenCs’ s ENC Chart Capturing Tool turns Freeware
SevenCs GmbH today announced that its popular ENC digitizing software is available as freeware by the End of January 2008. First introduced in 1997, the ENC Designer is in use by more than 40 hydrographic offices. It is considered the most effective software on the market to quickly generate ENCs from survey sheets and paper charts....
The ENC Designer software can be downloaded from
www.enctools.org

found in Deutsche Hydrographische Gesellschaft e.V. (DHyG) - SevenCs’ s ENC Chart Capturing Tool turns Freeware

cagney 20-09-2009 01:30

There was a press release at the end of 2007 regarding these free ENC Tools. 7Cs was supposed to make money through support contracts, a traditional free software business model.
The whole thing has obviously been silently buried by their new owners (since 2005) -->>

Quote:

SevenCs and its subsidiary company ChartWorld GmbH are wholly owned by the United Kingdom Hydrographic Office (UKHO.)
"Whois" indicates that the domain "www.enctools.org" is owned by 7Cs, no surprises here.

I think that this is a dead end.

The way forward, I think, is through an open non proprietary chart format. A discussion along these lines between Rhoel and Dave is in the "monster" thread.
Another interesting idea popped up at the SSCA:s OpenCPN thread.
If a lot of us had a depth sounder connected to a gps and collected data as we sailed, for later uploading and processing with purpose designed program, interesting developments would appear over time, specially if we also had access to "free" charts.

Thomas

blubaju 20-09-2009 02:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by cagney (Post 334574)

The way forward, I think, is through an open non proprietary chart format. A discussion along these lines between Rhoel and Dave is in the "monster" thread.
Another interesting idea popped up at the SSCA:s OpenCPN thread.
If a lot of us had a depth sounder connected to a gps and collected data as we sailed, for later uploading and processing with purpose designed program, interesting developments would appear over time, specially if we also had access to "free" charts.

Thomas

O.k. UKHO is a promise for sealed, locked and expensive, better a thousand dead sailors than they loose a single penny.

Hoped that at least one copy made it to any download server. Seems UKHO was in a big hurry to purchase them, maybe it was a fake anyway to be bought faster and a better price. But a genius like Dave reading cm93 could easily develop an openENC creating program, anyway, one day he must indulge himself in cm93v3, and that is encrypted ENC ;-))

I wonder if the CMAP charts level A and B could not be considered free already as they come with almost everything, think I got at least 4 copies, the world coast line is free too and high resolution, a few decades ago every average sailor would have been very happy with that.

I know, there is a project to extend the OpenStreetMap to the water, OpenSeaMap - Start, another Seekarte FreieTonne - Herzlich Willkommen (German only), hope somehow usefull to prevent the invention of the wheel again

I think the goal should be the possibility to generate own ENC from various sources and to correct them by on board means in a standard way so corrections maybe downloaded from a public server too.

LeaseOnLife 20-09-2009 04:31

Opensource GIS tool,
 
I found at least one promising lead: gvSIG supposedly can geo-reference Raster formats, like a scan of a paper chart.

An extract from the FAQ:
Quote:

What formats does it support?
  • Formats supported in reading mode
    • Vector data:
      • .shp
      • .gml
      • .kml
      • .dgn v7 (no v8)
      • .dxf (texto)
      • .dwg (2000, R14, R13 and R12)
    • Raster (georeferenced or no) :
      • .ecw
      • .tiff (geotif, tfw)
      • .jpg, .png, .gif
      • MrSID
      • .img
      • .jpeg2000
      • .bmp
  • Formats suppported in writing mode
    • .shp
    • .gml
    • .kml
    • .GeoTIFF
    • ECW (only in Linux kernel 2.4)
    • JPEG (georeferenced)
    • JPEG2000 (georeferenced)
    • dxf (version 7)
    • Postgis
https://www.gvsig.gva.es/clear.gif
Has anyone tried gvSIG? From one of the output formats we would need to convert it to a format opencpn can read.

I have a slow download link and give this program a try at a later date.

Don't get me wrong, the idea of creating ENCs with layers and users can share their additions and correection is great. But it is also too far out (in time). I just want to scan a paper chart and make it work in opencpn. Hopefully gvSIG is a first step.

dacust 20-09-2009 09:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeaseOnLife (Post 334600)
I found at least one promising lead: gvSIG supposedly can geo-reference Raster formats, like a scan of a paper chart.

An extract from the FAQ:
Has anyone tried gvSIG? From one of the output formats we would need to convert it to a format opencpn can read.

I have a slow download link and give this program a try at a later date.

Don't get me wrong, the idea of creating ENCs with layers and users can share their additions and correection is great. But it is also too far out (in time). I just want to scan a paper chart and make it work in opencpn. Hopefully gvSIG is a first step.

I am playing with it now. The PDF manual is over 400 pages! Better too much information than not enough, but it is time consuming wading through all they got.

Looks promising for creating world file referenced .tif and .jpg.

I'm starting with some .tiff images of New Zealand marine charts. 166 charts at 660mb. Good collection if we can get them veiwable in OpenCPN.

-dan

barnakiel 20-09-2009 10:45

Yeah, those NZ charts can be gotten of the web. Some NZ areas, Tonga, Coral Sea, etc.. But man they are HUGE files (meant for print). What do we do with them first - degrade the res?

Can someone give me a tip - what format raster is supported by OpenCPN? Bmp, jpg, tiff ?

THX
b.

LeaseOnLife 20-09-2009 11:28

supported chart formats
 
Barnakiel

I don't have a final answer on this, I asked the same question in the Beta forum:

https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...91&postcount=9

Some BSB and some GEO and CM93/2 and S57/ENC are supported. I say "some" because there are versions of BSB and GEO charts.

Maptech started with some encryption when introducing BSB 4.0 which I believe is not supported by opencpn.

Hopefully Dave chimes in with a final statement about supported chart formats.

Dirk

sinbad7 20-09-2009 13:56

To my knowledge,none of them presently. I HAVE made a request to Dave some time ago to make OpenCPN accept scanned raster maps but he presently has his hands full preparing the new version.

The NZ maps can be reduced to 75 dpi resolution as this is more than adequate for a PC screen. You can further reduce the maps in physical size,and finally use a .jpg compression utility.

Most of the free/affordable nav progs. all have raster capability so I think in time OpenCPN will also need to offer this facility.

You can see an example from this link:

The original was 77 MB 150 dpi resolution,now reduced to 1 MB and 75 dpi.
You can even reduce the file size further by reducing the physical map size.

dacust 20-09-2009 14:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by barnakiel (Post 334722)
Can someone give me a tip - what format raster is supported by OpenCPN? Bmp, jpg, tiff ?

THX
b.

KAP - BSB - proprietary and must be licensed to produce them.

So, the trick is to find a public format, with tools to be able to create geo-referenced charts from images, and then convince Dave it'd be a good idea to support that format.

I vote for .tif, .jpg, .bmp with a world file. I can create .jpg's w/.jpws of the entire USA in photo and topo maps.

-dan

sinbad7 20-09-2009 14:43

Correction re message 17.

The NZ map file was 3.8 MB originally,not 77 MB...

sinbad7 20-09-2009 14:55

Quote:

I'm starting with some .tiff images of New Zealand marine charts. 166 charts at 660mb. Good collection if we can get them veiwable in OpenCPN.

-dan
I seem to have lost the link to the NZ chart downloads. Could you please list it here?

dacust 20-09-2009 15:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by sinbad7 (Post 334817)
I seem to have lost the link to the NZ chart downloads. Could you please list it here?

It's on my Chart Links page. Last one in the first section.

-dan

barnakiel 20-09-2009 15:41

Well if OpenCPN does NOT support any open raster then part of the discussion is pretty academic. Let's wait and see what they will support. It would be nice to stay as close to bmp/png/jpg as possible. Can these be geo-referenced?

But this is just half of the story since the future is definitely in the vectors and all vectors I know are just prohibitively expensive. OK for one area, but what about people cruising extensively? Is there anything like online swap for the cartridges by now?

I geo-referenced bmp for SeaClear and it was very easy and fast. I used Google Earth screen dumps, weather faxes, etc..

b.

dacust 20-09-2009 18:13

Georeferencing tool found!
 
I found a simple georeferincing tool. Does nothing but that. Easy to use. I did my first one in about 2 minutes. At that rate, I should be able to do the entire New Zealand set of 167 charts in one weekend, if I didn't go blind doing it....

Image Georeferencer - And, imaginatively enough, that's the name of it.

Supports png, bmp, gif, tif, jpg, and quite a few others.

Creates a World file. Does not alter the original image.

So, how about some of the rest of you that are interested in this, check out that tool and see what you think.

FYI: I found several others, but they all seem to want you to have another already-referenced image loaded to compare it to. They were also all able to do so much more, that I got quickly confused trying to figure how to do my simple task.

-dan

LeaseOnLife 20-09-2009 18:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by dacust (Post 334940)
I found a simple georeferincing tool. Does nothing but that. Easy to use. I did my first one in about 2 minutes. At that rate, I should be able to do the entire New Zealand set of 167 charts in one weekend, if I didn't go blind doing it....

Image Georeferencer - And, imaginatively enough, that's the name of it.

Supports png, bmp, gif, tif, jpg, and quite a few others.

Creates a World file. Does not alter the original image.

So, how about some of the rest of you that are interested in this, check out that tool and see what you think.

FYI: I found several others, but they all seem to want you to have another already-referenced image loaded to compare it to. They were also all able to do so much more, that I got quickly confused trying to figure how to do my simple task.

-dan

dacust, great find! One issue though, it seems to only like x/y coordinates in UTM, am I correct? It would be great to be able to enter degrees, minutes, seconds or degrees, minutes, decimals. Did you find a setting to change this?

but I think we are getting somewhere! And source code is available too!

dacust 20-09-2009 18:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeaseOnLife (Post 334944)
dacust, great find! One issue though, it seems to only like x/y coordinates in UTM, am I correct? It would be great to be able to enter degrees, minutes, seconds or degrees, minutes, decimals. Did you find a setting to change this?

but I think we are getting somewhere! And source code is available too!

Nope, I didn't find a way to change the inputs.

OK, so here are the others I found (and just to have all the links in the same place, I have gvSIG and Georeferencer there, too.):

Quantum GIS

MapMaker

gvSIG

Georeferencer

Both of these new ones seem to want you to have another already-georeferenced image to align it to.

BTW: You can put an image into Google Earth, but I found no way to save it with the georeferencing.

-dan

LeaseOnLife 20-09-2009 18:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by dacust (Post 334950)

Both of these new ones seem to want you to have another already-georeferenced image to align it to.

BTW: You can put an image into Google Earth, but I found no way to save it with the georeferencing.

-dan

Been at most of the sites, having serious troubles with the more scientific GIS tools. Need something simple. Playing with QLandkarte QT right now...

EOB 21-09-2009 07:22

Nautical Charts and safety!!!
 
To All,
Nautical Charts and safety!!!
The most important issue about navigation is SAFETY!
And to keep yourself in safe, everybody MUST USE THE LAST EDITION OF NAUTICAL CHART, UPDETED TO THE LAST NOTICE TO MARINERS.
In the USA and few other countries, you get it for free. Otherwise, you should spend some money...
Forget about CM93/2 2002, 2004, 2006; .hdr, .GEO, BSB2 etc; all outdated!
OpenCPN handles BSB version 3, S-57 version 2 (Dave, am I right?) and CM93 version 2 (equivalent S-57/2). CM93/2, as has been said in this forum, is no longer available but Jappensen still keep them updated for old users. And donīt forget itīs COPYRIGHTED. BSB3 is copyrighted too (MAPTECH/NOOA) but I think, NOOA allow its use (Iīm not sure about that)
So, if you have a updated paper nautical chart and for important reason, like to use it, AND REALY KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING, you may scan it and convert to BSB3 to use it in OpenCPN.
Talking about BSB3...
,OpenCPN handles very well this format, and make the necessary conversion (ellipsoid, projection, datum etc) if and only if the chart has itself all the information needed. If doesīt, the chart does not follow the BSB specification and/or probably, is outdated.
For not be boring, already being, please use good quality official charts!! (YES, there are poor quality official charts around the world...)


To Dave,
I would like OpenCPN has a way to make correction on charts (radio warnings) and show the NTMs embedded in BSB format. Letīs think about ...

idpnd 21-09-2009 07:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by EOB (Post 335152)
The most important issue about navigation is SAFETY! And to keep yourself in safe, everybody MUST USE THE LAST EDITION OF NAUTICAL CHART, UPDETED TO THE LAST NOTICE TO MARINERS.
In the USA and few other countries, you get it for free. Otherwise, you should spend some money...

CAPS LOCK PROBLEM plus cross-posting.. Thanks for the advice :thumb:

sinbad7 21-09-2009 07:56

EOB
Quote:

To All,
Nautical Charts and safety!!!
The most important issue about navigation is SAFETY!
I'd like to know WHERE you propose to have scanned raster charts converted to BSB2 ?

EOB 21-09-2009 09:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by sinbad7 (Post 335173)
EOB


I'd like to know WHERE you propose to have scanned raster charts converted to BSB2 ?

OpenCPN handles BSB2, but as I said, probably it was outdated...

LeaseOnLife 21-09-2009 10:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by EOB (Post 335239)
OpenCPN handles BSB2, but as I said, probably it was outdated...

EOB, I think you misunderstood. A group of people in this forum is very interested to scan paper charts (raster-image) or use other available raster images of charts. We are looking for an easy to use tool which allows to add geo-reference information to the image, plus identify boundaries on the chart, therefor making the raster-image a raster-chart. We either need to create a raster-chart format opencpn can read, or we need to expand opencpn to read more formats.

BSB up to version 3 is just one raster-chart format opencpn happens to read.
Writing / creating BSB files has not been accomplished, at least not announced here in the forum. Writing BSB files could create a whole new set of copyright issues.

cagney 21-09-2009 12:21

2 Attachment(s)
Libbsb and the graphical frontend Raster2Bsb works as a geo-referencing tool, creating .kap files that can be used by OpenCPN.
Proof of concept.
Starting with a 3.9 mb tif file (to big for this forum).
First picture shows the tif pic displayed in Raster2Bsb for geo-referencing. The button "Save as BSB file" creates a template.kap the first time you press it and the real .kap file the second time. The template.kap can be used as a template file with libbsb as a command line tool
The second picture shows the created .kap file displayed in OpenCPN.
Libbsb works with tif and png files. I know there are a lot of details that needs sorting out, but as I said "Proof of concept". It does work. Sorry, "nix" only.

Thomas

sinbad7 21-09-2009 12:58

Thomas...
Now THIS is very interesting.. I know other people have tried the 'Raster2bsb' but without luck. Somehow they never managed to figure out the 'create' part. I still feel there is more to the conversion than can be mastered by the average sailor,but there again isn't that what Open software is all about,using the joint skills of our fellow members.

In search of low cost map solutions I found this site: A small company in the Ukraine producing maps from scanned raster images in various formats. Perhaps a cooperation would be possible? Anyway,the list of charts they offer are very resonable at Eur 3.80.

sinbad7 21-09-2009 13:12

Thomas..
As a sample,could you without too much work,convert this 1MB raster map to BSB readable by OpenCPN? Or,does it have to be the original 3.8MB raster map?

You can collect either from my dropbox:

For those not familiar with 'getdropbox.com',I would recommend installing it for future exchanges of maps etc. You get 2 GB of FREE storage to start with.

sinbad7 21-09-2009 13:52

Thomas..

Is the raster2bsb conversion program only available in Linux or for Mac?

idpnd 21-09-2009 14:18

Raster2BSB is an improved version of/GUI for lib2bsb made by barcosoft (register to the forum and select downloads at the top right of the screen), who also happen to be one of the few companies publishing linux-compatible navigation software- with encrypted BSB support even!

Quote:

This new release adds BSB version 4 & 5 chart support to SeaFarer. There have been several other enhancements and bug fixes.
Funnily enough, this is one of the few times where no windows version seems to have been compiled. The source code is published on the site though, so it may well be possible to compile it for windows. Alternatively, you could probably run it from an ubuntu livecd without installing linux.

I just took another look into it- unfortunately I haven't really got any non-georeferenced charts, so I'll have to trust cagney on his proof of concept above.. ;)

LeaseOnLife 21-09-2009 14:44

Thomas, thanks for the proof of concept. Next time I have better internet I will try this on my Gentoo machine (need ssh and vnc to work...). Great find!

Now, how do I get Raster2BSB without registering? PM me if you could, I send you an email address...

dacust 21-09-2009 17:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by cagney (Post 335339)
Libbsb and the graphical frontend Raster2Bsb works as a geo-referencing tool, creating .kap files that can be used by OpenCPN.
Proof of concept.
Starting with a 3.9 mb tif file (to big for this forum).
First picture shows the tif pic displayed in Raster2Bsb for geo-referencing. The button "Save as BSB file" creates a template.kap the first time you press it and the real .kap file the second time. The template.kap can be used as a template file with libbsb as a command line tool
The second picture shows the created .kap file displayed in OpenCPN.
Libbsb works with tif and png files. I know there are a lot of details that needs sorting out, but as I said "Proof of concept". It does work. Sorry, "nix" only.

Thomas

WAY COOL!

OK, we got a way. But still that produces charts that have a copyright problem. Someone might be willing to do it for themselves, but I would not be willing to freely distribute charts made that way.

But, still, I am excited!

So, question: Can it take a chart with a world file and create the .KAP? If you want one to try, I can put a few examples on my site. One .jpg and one .tif, at least. If it can, should be able to just load it and create, with no georeferencing required.

-dan

EOB 22-09-2009 05:05

[QUOTE=cagney;335339]Libbsb and the graphical frontend Raster2Bsb works as a geo-referencing tool, creating .kap files that can be used by OpenCPN.
Proof of concept.

Thomas,
Could you, please, send the .kap file?
How many reference points did you use?
Did you see that the paper chart is in transverse mercator an raster2bsb is using mercator projection?

Eloi

cagney 22-09-2009 09:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by sinbad7 (Post 335358)
Thomas..
As a sample,could you without too much work,convert this 1MB raster map to BSB readable by OpenCPN? Or,does it have to be the original 3.8MB raster map?

You can collect either from my dropbox:

For those not familiar with 'getdropbox.com',I would recommend installing it for future exchanges of maps etc. You get 2 GB of FREE storage to start with.

No luck with converting your chart picture. I can make .kap:s of small files. With bigger files my old box seems to run out of memory. You pointed to a 3.6 mb jpeg. Raster2Bsb created an 76.9 mb tiff file as a temporary, before creating an 8.4 mb .kap file, that OpenCPN reported as corrupt. Not even with small files, is success guaranteed every time.
I don't know much about Mac, but as it is UNIX under the hood, it should be possible to compile libbsb and Raster2BSB from source.
I would not be surprised if you need to do some tweaking of for example the "make file".

Thomas


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