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-   -   Eye splice in 4-strand? (https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f116/eye-splice-in-4-strand-259816.html)

Malagueta 12-01-2022 03:30

Eye splice in 4-strand?
 
Hi,
I have some 4 strand I want to put some eye splices in
I am OK with 3-strand and have heard its simple for 4-strand, but I cant find a non video instruction (I learn better with text and photos/diagrams)
I found this but cant see the start very well


Similar to 3-strand

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...UBeN4lU8ZTGv52




Also this looks cool - Flemish?
Is it 'as good'?

But again I cant see the tucks at the end

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...uqsHtmaBVlJuhx


I use the Samson sheet for 3-strand when I invariably forget in the long times between doing it
https://www.samsonrope.com/docs/defa...rsn=a4c5dd24_2


I know this is all very basic but, its my level :dork:

boatman61 12-01-2022 04:05

Re: Eye splice in 4-strand?
 
https://tag.wonderhowto.com/eye-splice-4-stranded-rope/

https://www.yumpu.com/en/document/vi...ohmann-schiffs

Any use.???

The start is like 3 strand.. the first 3 strands go right to left, the last strand goes left to tuck under the remaining strand in the rope..
https://youtu.be/D-NonEUaZH4

Malagueta 12-01-2022 04:29

Re: Eye splice in 4-strand?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by boatman61 (Post 3553425)
https://tag.wonderhowto.com/eye-splice-4-stranded-rope/

https://www.yumpu.com/en/document/vi...ohmann-schiffs

Any use.???

The start is like 3 strand.. the first 3 strands go right to left, the last strand goes left to tuck under the remaining strand in the rope..
https://youtu.be/D-NonEUaZH4


Although below sounds ungrateful - I am not - thanks a lot!!!



The wonderhow link gives results for 3-strand AFAICS and I know the Yumpu doc, but I cant follow it
However, the youtube link at the end (which I could only see properly whilst replying for some reason) gave this as the next suggestion:


https://youtu.be/L-qupDEuaQM?t=270


Thanks


Would still love a clear diagrams with text tho


I'm a bit of a grump with 15 min youtube instructions to get across the info that could be done in 4 pictures and a few lines of text :)

Malagueta 12-01-2022 04:37

Re: Eye splice in 4-strand?
 
This is perhaps the same thing (?) but the way he does it looks easier to follow


https://youtu.be/jvpxWiDd7sI?t=69


Although I can read the German one, I have no idea even what language that one is in, but he does indicate what he's doing well

boatman61 12-01-2022 04:56

Re: Eye splice in 4-strand?
 
1 Attachment(s)
The remaining 2 sets of tucks after the first tucks all go right to left.. if you want to taper it then after the 3rd lot of tucks cut 1/4 from each strand close to where the 3rd tucks come through, tuck in sequence, cut 1/4 more and repeat tucks, halve remaining tuck and complete final tucks.. trim off.
Important, tighten after each row of tucks for a good finish and strength.
Oh.. and I like to whip the end.

Here's a PDF...

tkeithlu 12-01-2022 05:40

Re: Eye splice in 4-strand?
 
You're going to tuck in the order of the strands in the working end whether three or four strand. The question becomes how do you start. Convention, and it works, is that you put two strands over and one strand under the entry point with three strand. With four strand, put two over and two under. Divide the working end into pairs of strands that lie beside each other in the lay of the rope, and take up slack as you make the first tuck. You want the tuck to fit tightly against the entry point.

Malagueta 12-01-2022 05:43

Re: Eye splice in 4-strand?
 
Thanks to both!
I will attempt it and let you know how I get on

boatman61 12-01-2022 06:54

Re: Eye splice in 4-strand?
 
Picture or we won't believe you... :biggrin:

StuM 12-01-2022 15:48

Re: Eye splice in 4-strand?
 
There are good illustrations of several different 4 strand eye splices in Ashley's Book Of Knots.

Take a look at ABOK #2737 to #2742.

Breaking Waves 12-01-2022 20:09

Re: Eye splice in 4-strand?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by StuM (Post 3553779)
There are good illustrations of several different 4 strand eye splices in Ashley's Book Of Knots.

Take a look at ABOK #2737 to #2742.

Stu, I am aware of two quite different ways to splice 4 strand. (a) is essentially the same as with 3 strand - take the 4 strands around the intended loop, put two on top of the standing part and 3 under, and tuck 'against the braid' in order, (b) is essentially to take two strands up one side of the loop and the other two strands up the other side and make a 2 strand end to end splice at the top of the loop, with the tails long enough to continue the splice a few tucks into the standing part.

Are there other/additional fundamentally different ways?

(I dont have ashley at hand).

StuM 12-01-2022 23:44

Re: Eye splice in 4-strand?
 
2 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Breaking Waves (Post 3553932)
Stu, I am aware of two quite different ways to splice 4 strand. (a) is essentially the same as with 3 strand - take the 4 strands around the intended loop, put two on top of the standing part and 3 under, and tuck 'against the braid' in order, (b) is essentially to take two strands up one side of the loop and the other two strands up the other side and make a 2 strand end to end splice at the top of the loop, with the tails long enough to continue the splice a few tucks into the standing part.

Are there other/additional fundamentally different ways?

(I dont have ashley at hand).


Extract from relevant section.

Breaking Waves 13-01-2022 05:31

Re: Eye splice in 4-strand?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by StuM (Post 3553991)
Extract from relevant section.

Thanks, Ah, interesting, those are in what I called the 'similar to 3 strand' camp, and they are missing the '2 strand end to end' approach (I suppose that possibly could be elsewhere in the book?).

BTW, for the OP, I will share a dirty little secret about tuck splices . . . . for strength the actual tuck pattern (generally) does not matter much. It affects the esthetics of the finished splice, but for strength, if you get enough tucks (generally 4 or 5) and evenly tension all the strands (so they all share the load) then you still get the target strength even if you bungle the tuck pattern a bit. This knowledge will hopefully take a little of your psychological stress out when making these :)

Malagueta 13-01-2022 14:26

Re: Eye splice in 4-strand?
 
Thanks All!
I am now resenting my daughter's 12th birthday this weekend as I wont be able to sit in a corner quietly swearing at a piece of rope :D


But next week ...

Jim Cate 13-01-2022 16:27

Re: Eye splice in 4-strand?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Breaking Waves (Post 3554071)
Thanks, Ah, interesting, those are in what I called the 'similar to 3 strand' camp, and they are missing the '2 strand end to end' approach (I suppose that possibly could be elsewhere in the book?).

BTW, for the OP, I will share a dirty little secret about tuck splices . . . . for strength the actual tuck pattern (generally) does not matter much. It affects the esthetics of the finished splice, but for strength, if you get enough tucks (generally 4 or 5) and evenly tension all the strands (so they all share the load) then you still get the target strength even if you bungle the tuck pattern a bit. This knowledge will hopefully take a little of your psychological stress out when making these :)

Evans, thanks for the above dose of good sense, backed by some careful testing. I hate to think of the time I've wasted re-doing splices that didn't look right to my poorly educated eye!

Jim

Malagueta 17-01-2022 12:06

Re: Eye splice in 4-strand?
 
I still havent managed to try, but what about ABOK #2752?
Thats the first video I showed of the Irish guy
Looks very different

I didnt know that book - its amazing!

Breaking Waves 17-01-2022 14:59

Re: Eye splice in 4-strand?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Malagueta (Post 3556665)
I
Thats the first video I showed of the Irish guy

ah, yea, I had missed that vid in your post . . .yea that's exactly an example of the '2-strand end-to-end loop' approach.

Malagueta 20-01-2022 07:33

Re: Eye splice in 4-strand?
 
Since, having lived in Germany and now Portugal for years and having to speak the lingo despite having no natural talent, I am completely immune to shame in my feeble attempts - here are some photos of this weeks 3-splice eye-splicing attempts


The 4-strand sequel will be in a cinema near you soon!

https://6fuqvfoay2.joplinusercontent...QaLPobu4s7CaBw
https://6fuqvfoay2.joplinusercontent...QaLPobu4s7CaBw

boatman61 20-01-2022 07:46

Re: Eye splice in 4-strand?
 
Not bad.. now just follow the same routine for the 4 strand.
Have a go at tapering the end down.. :thumb:

Malagueta 20-01-2022 09:20

Re: Eye splice in 4-strand?
 
Is the tapering just for aesthetics or does it reduce the stress concentration where the splice ends?


Or is it for something else?

boatman61 20-01-2022 09:29

Re: Eye splice in 4-strand?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Malagueta (Post 3558295)
Is the tapering just for aesthetics or does it reduce the stress concentration where the splice ends?


Or is it for something else?

Partly aesthetic, partly practical..
Dock lines can be made to look prettier by tapering but not crucial..
Main, Foresail halyards however the taper makes jamming in the sheave at the top of the mast less likely.. but even that depends on how high your sails go, and it gives more strength to my mind.. but that's only my mind.
Others may differ.. :biggrin:

Malagueta 31-01-2022 05:34

Re: Eye splice in 4-strand?
 
OK,
still havent found time to try the 4-strand, but ...
I had to take out the splice in the three strand I did and the rope has become 'kinked' where I took it out
Its symetrical in all 3 strands

I dont know what this is called, so cant search for it
How can I get this out
I can make it worse by untwisting the 3-strand ....
https://6fuqvfoay2.joplinusercontent...=1643632400412

Breaking Waves 31-01-2022 05:39

Re: Eye splice in 4-strand?
 
It is called a 'Hockle" - usually, you can twist it out.

Unless you have somehow put it in structurally with your splice and unsplice.

Malagueta 31-01-2022 12:12

Re: Eye splice in 4-strand?
 
Thanks!

Malagueta 03-02-2022 04:20

Re: Eye splice in 4-strand?
 
Seems its called a 'Cockle' in UK
https://jimmygreen.com/content/180-r...ng-information

Breaking Waves 03-02-2022 05:52

Re: Eye splice in 4-strand?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Malagueta (Post 3567233)

interesting - "divided by a common language" - again lol.

Malagueta 03-02-2022 06:48

Re: Eye splice in 4-strand?
 
Or is it more complex than that?


From here


in https://www.manilacordage.com/faq.php
[open quote]
What is a Kink? A Cockle? A Knuckle? A Hockle? and a Chinckle? How do they affect a rope?
A kink is an abrupt bend or loop in a rope which is a result of an unbalanced twist relationship in the rope structure.
Strand kinks are also termed as cockles, or knuckles.
A hockle is a condition whereby a rope strand twists on itself -- also called a chinckle.
Apart from the effect on the strength of the rope, kinks and cockles are detrimental because they interfere with the utility of the rope. They will not pass through a block, will not lie properly, and will chafe more readily.
[end quote]

Malagueta 25-04-2022 03:05

Re: Eye splice in 4-strand?
 
2 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by boatman61 (Post 3553497)
Picture or we won't believe you... :biggrin:


And, finally .....


I did two over and then the other two under to start


This was my first attempt
not as hard as I was fearing


worst bit was it is nylon with fine fibres that kept getting stuck to my rough hands like velcro :D


Also there was a thin core strand that got a bit in the way, but generally not that difficult


The rope strands easily 'unwound' and I think the fisherman's video way would have been a nightmare with this floppy nylon rope - perhaps easier with polypropylene

The Samson guide for 3-strand said to count 16 crowns/picks from the end to unlay, so I did (4/3) * 16 ~ 20, but it was probably over-conservative as I ended up with a very long splice



Thanks for all the help!

Hartleyg 07-05-2022 13:44

Re: Eye splice in 4-strand?
 
Those two look pretty good, Malagueta! the second one, it looks like you could have tightened up the first tuck just a bit more (appearance, not structural). It took me MANY tries to get splices that neat!

As an aside, in stranded splices, two tucks will hold, but can shake loose - three tucks is enough in 99.1% of cases, and 4 tucks is all you really need (unless you want a long splice for some reason). I've made some extra-long splices in my docklines so the end of the splice is NOT at the max friction point.
If heavy shaking/flailing is a worry, just whip the splice or make a cover and sew it down tight. I've made a couple leather covers for my dockline splices - not sure they do much, but they look nice!

Hartley
S/V Atsa

GrowleyMonster 09-05-2022 01:28

Re: Eye splice in 4-strand?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Breaking Waves (Post 3553932)
Stu, I am aware of two quite different ways to splice 4 strand. (a) is essentially the same as with 3 strand - take the 4 strands around the intended loop, put two on top of the standing part and 3 under, and tuck 'against the braid' in order, (b) is essentially to take two strands up one side of the loop and the other two strands up the other side and make a 2 strand end to end splice at the top of the loop, with the tails long enough to continue the splice a few tucks into the standing part.

Are there other/additional fundamentally different ways?

(I dont have ashley at hand).

You can download ABOK from numerous sources. Internet Archive is good.

https://archive.org/details/the-ashl...lifford-ashley

https://ia601904.us.archive.org/35/i...of%20knots.pdf

I haven't seen any 4 strand laid rope in a long time but I prefer to first Flemish the eye and then tuck it on out against the lay as per normal 3 strand. Flemishing the eye makes starting the tucks much less a concern. Just tuck each end under the nearest standing part strand. No drama and no mystery.

GordMay 09-05-2022 04:06

Re: Eye splice in 4-strand?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by GrowleyMonster (Post 3619947)
You can download ABOK from numerous sources. Internet Archive is good.

https://archive.org/details/the-ashl...lifford-ashley

https://ia601904.us.archive.org/35/i...of%20knots.pdf ....

THANKS!
The Ashley Book Of Knots [ABOK] is the Bible of knots!

There’s also “Animated Knots by Grog”, where you follow along, as ropes tie themselves, showing just the essential steps, so you can master a knot in no time.
Home ➥ https://www.animatedknots.com/

Knots by Activity
Boating Knots ➥ https://www.animatedknots.com/boating-knots
Search & Rescue Knots ➥ https://www.animatedknots.com/search-rescue-knots

Seaworthy Lass 09-05-2022 06:20

Re: Eye splice in 4-strand?
 
2 Attachment(s)
Hi all

Splicing Octoplait in 4 pairs is essentially the same as splicing 4 strand.

I posted tips for doing that nine years ago:
https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...it-104817.html

I find it extremely helpful to mark the two pairs that go clockwise for the entire length of the splice (both the portion that will be unravelled and the portion that will be tucked into). It makes it very easy then not to confuse which strands go in which direction and which ones they go under. See the photos below.

These were the main tips I gave:

These are the 5 critical points to remember:
- Two pairs of strands diagonally opposite to each other always wind anticlockwise and the other two pairs that are also opposite each other but a touch displaced always wind clockwise.
- Each pair winds 180 degrees between tucks.
- The strands going clockwise always tuck under a pair going anticlockwise and vice versa.
- All the strands keep leading in one direction as they weave around.
- Each pair of strands about to be tucked in must pass over a pair already tucked. Just keep working on the lowest pair of strands to achieve this.

You just follow this pattern to splice. Easy as child's play once you get the pattern going if the strands are marked. Even easier than three strand line in many ways, as you have a pattern below to follow when you are tucking the strands in.


Edited to add:
Scrap all that. 4 strand is wound differently. See post # 34

SWL

Malagueta 13-05-2022 15:03

Re: Eye splice in 4-strand?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hartleyg (Post 3619427)
Those two look pretty good, Malagueta! the second one, it looks like you could have tightened up the first tuck just a bit more (appearance, not structural). It took me MANY tries to get splices that neat!

As an aside, in stranded splices, two tucks will hold, but can shake loose - three tucks is enough in 99.1% of cases, and 4 tucks is all you really need (unless you want a long splice for some reason). I've made some extra-long splices in my docklines so the end of the splice is NOT at the max friction point.
If heavy shaking/flailing is a worry, just whip the splice or make a cover and sew it down tight. I've made a couple leather covers for my dockline splices - not sure they do much, but they look nice!

Hartley
S/V Atsa


Thanks Hartley,
Those two photos are actually both sides of the same first splice
My second attempt was tighter on the first tuck, but then I pulled the final tucks up too much and it all puckered up and after straightening it all out it wasnt so neat. Live and learn :smile:. Actually that nylon rope was very different to anything I had spliced before - felt almost like a silk curtain rope :smiling:

Hartleyg 13-05-2022 17:52

Re: Eye splice in 4-strand?
 
SWL,

You said: "Splicing Octoplait in 4 pairs is essentially the same as splicing 4 strand."

I have never been exposed to 4-strand rope, so after your comment I did an Internet search - and it looks to me that most (if not all) 4-strand ropes are just like 3-strand, except with one more strand - they are not plaited/braided ropes like 8-plait or 12-strand. All of the strands are the same "hand" - not 2 one way and 2 the other.
Obviously, this will affect how it is spliced!

Hartley
S/V Atsa

Seaworthy Lass 13-05-2022 22:21

Re: Eye splice in 4-strand?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hartleyg (Post 3622584)
SWL,

You said: "Splicing Octoplait in 4 pairs is essentially the same as splicing 4 strand."

I have never been exposed to 4-strand rope, so after your comment I did an Internet search - and it looks to me that most (if not all) 4-strand ropes are just like 3-strand, except with one more strand - they are not plaited/braided ropes like 8-plait or 12-strand. All of the strands are the same "hand" - not 2 one way and 2 the other.
Obviously, this will affect how it is spliced!

Hartley
S/V Atsa

Hi Hartley
Looking at Malagueta‘s images you are right! It does look identical to 4 strand. My memory let me down very badly here. I will strike out my entire previous post so no one is mislead.

Thanks for that correction.

SWL


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