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-   -   Refugees at Sea (https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f158/refugees-at-sea-249833.html)

GordMay 23-04-2021 05:40

Refugees at Sea
 
More than 100 migrants feared dead as boat capsizes off Libya

The ship was reportedly carrying some 130 people, with rescue teams saying little hope of finding survivors.
The shipwreck was the latest along the Central Mediterranean migration route, where about 350 migrants have died this year.

More https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/...izes-off-libya

GordMay 23-04-2021 05:41

Re: Refugees at Sea
 
‘Complete disregard for migrants dying on the Mediterranean’

Rescue coordinator, onboard the "Ocean Viking", shares his frustration with authorities’ lack of will on the Mediterranean.

Here ➥ https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2...-mediterranean

Tillikum 23-04-2021 08:26

Re: Refugees at Sea
 
Quite in keeping the with "complete disregard" for the conditions that prevailed in their countries of origin.

double u 23-04-2021 08:29

Re: Refugees at Sea
 
...doesn't "migrant" imply the consent of the country of destination?

double u 23-04-2021 08:33

Re: Refugees at Sea
 
just for the record:
Al Jazeera is owned by Scheik Hamad bin Chalifa Al Thani (Qatar Media Corporation)
(Qatar is world famous for the numbers of refugee/migrants it has received with open arms!)

Rohan 23-04-2021 09:03

Re: Refugees at Sea
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by GordMay (Post 3393361)
‘Complete disregard for migrants dying on the Mediterranean’

Rescue coordinator, onboard the "Ocean Viking", shares his frustration with authorities’ lack of will on the Mediterranean.

If these NGOs were truly so concerned about migrants dying, they would stop working as a taxi service for these human traffickers. I would really like to ask that guy if he's not in cahoots with the criminals, then why does his NGO ferry everyone the much longer route to Europe, instead of returning them safely to the closest shore in Africa? Not only would more lives be saved that way, but they would be able to make far more trips back and forth. But their real goal is political - to bring in as many Africans as they can into Europe to force demographic and political change.

For those that don't know, here's how the scam works. The criminal networks charge money to cram as many migrants as possible onto rickety boats and rafts that have no chance of making the journey, then tow them just beyond the 12 mile limit. There they strand them, sometimes even deliberately puncturing their boats, send out a distress call for the nearest vessel to come pick them up. Sometimes they call NGOs on satphone to pick them up.

If it's Libyan navy, they bring them back to Africa. If it's a European vessel, the migrants won't divulge where they are from, so they only thing they can usually do is bring them hundreds of miles to Europe. If it's an NGO vessel, of course that's the intent all along.

boatman61 23-04-2021 09:18

Re: Refugees at Sea
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by double u (Post 3393503)
...doesn't "migrant" imply the consent of the country of destination?

Its standard practice for the uneffected Liberals to bleat about this.. you won't find them getting the views of the Greeks, Sicilians, Italians and others having to put up with the mainly young males making this trip about the violence and crime they inevitably bring with them.
Breaking..
A female police employee was stabbed to death by a Tunisian man at a police station southwest of Paris today.

StuM 23-04-2021 13:13

Re: Refugees at Sea
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by double u (Post 3393503)
...doesn't "migrant" imply the consent of the country of destination?


Not to me. You can have both legal and illegral migration into a country.


And the question of legality doesn't even apply until you reach a specific destination.

Joh.Ghurt 24-04-2021 03:49

Re: Refugees at Sea
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by GordMay (Post 3393361)
‘Complete disregard for migrants dying on the Mediterranean’

Indeed. The masters of the boats and ships selling passages to those people have a total disregard for the SOLAS-accords. This is shameful.

For the migrants and all other potential passengers (or crew) on a ship, stay away from any vessel not conforming to there SOLAS standards where appropriate. You're playing with your life.

As to organisations like Ocean-Vikings looking for trouble, they shouldn't be surprised when they find it and get no sympathy. The difference between a rescuer patrolling for victims to rescue and a human trafficker is about as muddles as the difference between a freedom fighter and a terrorist.

silkie 24-04-2021 21:17

Re: Refugees at Sea
 
Emigrants when they leave, migrants on arrival. These unfortunates didn't make it to "migrant" status, IMO.
Not that words change anything in these situations.

Cyrus Safdari 24-04-2021 21:50

Re: Refugees at Sea
 
Their countries of origin are usually undergoing strife so can't really be expected to be enforcing maritime rules and in the case of Libya lets remember how it got to be that way. People leave their homes and families (whom they love just as much as you do yours) take to seas in rickety boats out of desperation, and hiring smugglers is inevitable part of the process. And if you were in their placed, you'd do the same. Maybe your grandparents did the same.
https://www.history.com/news/wwii-je...-st-louis-1939

About 1% of the worlds population are refugees. Half are women and children. Plenty are Westerners themselves
Up to 42 per cent of refugees and migrants in the Balkans are women (17%) and children (25%). ·


FYI the countries who take in the most refugees aren't even Western. Among the the top ten recipients of refugees, there are 1or 2 European countries (Germany, Sweden) that take most refugees.
https://www.nrc.no/perspectives/2020...most-refugees/

https://www.unhcr.org/en-us/figures-at-a-glance.html

Some countries facing difficult situations themselves have hosted millions of refugees for decades and provided them with jobs, housing, education, medical insurance...

https://www.unhcr.org/en-us/publicat...-surprise.html

StuM 24-04-2021 23:11

Re: Refugees at Sea
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by silkie (Post 3394396)
Emigrants when they leave, migrants on arrival. These unfortunates didn't make it to "migrant" status, IMO.
Not that words change anything in these situations.


Immigrants on arrival at their intended destination. Migrants while they are moving (they may migrate through several countries with no intention of stopping. They didn't make it to "immigrant" status.

GordMay 25-04-2021 01:44

Re: Refugees at Sea
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by StuM (Post 3394416)
Immigrants on arrival at their intended destination. Migrants while they are moving (they may migrate through several countries with no intention of stopping. They didn't make it to "immigrant" status.

The Migrants ➛ Emigrants ➛ Immigrants, that we are talking about, are usually Refugees:

Refugees are defined and protected in international law. The 1951 Refugee Convention is a key legal document and defines a refugee as:

“... someone who is unable or unwilling to return to their country of origin owing to a well-founded fear of being persecuted for reasons of race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group, or political opinion ...”

When people flee their own country, and seek sanctuary in another country, they apply for asylum – the right to be recognized as a refugee, and receive legal protection, and material assistance. An asylum seeker must demonstrate that his or her fear of persecution, in his or her home country, is well-founded.

By the end of 2017, there were 25.4 million refugee men, women and children registered across the world. About 68% of those displaced across borders come from just five countries: Syria, Venezuela, Afghanistan, South Sudan and Myanmar.

While there is no formal legal definition of an international migrant, most experts agree that an international migrant is someone who changes his or her country of usual residence, irrespective of the reason for migration or legal status.

Internally Displaced Persons [IDPs] are people who have been forced to flee their home, but never cross an international border. IDPs, often include people displaced by internal strife and natural disasters. Unlike refugees, IDPs are not protected by international law, or eligible to receive many types of aid, because they are legally under the protection of their own government.

About 45.7 million People are internally displaced around the world. Countries with some the largest internally displaced populations are Colombia, Syria, Democratic Republic of the Congo and Yemen.

double u 25-04-2021 02:07

Re: Refugees at Sea
 
and refugees have the right to chose their country of sanctuary? to keep going through as many countries as necessary until they find one they like? After having passed through any number of countries where they would be safe they are still "refugees"?

Joh.Ghurt 25-04-2021 02:13

Re: Refugees at Sea
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyrus Safdari (Post 3394399)
Half are women and children. Plenty are Westerners themselves

Lets move back to facts about boat migrants and not throw around unrelated numbers. Migrants on the land-borders have a slightly different gender-ratios. But we're here in forum dealing with cruising and boats.

Where I sit I can see and hear often enough the results of the migration. I'm not in a hot-spot, but a bit off the beaten path for migrants, so we don't get it here in full force. As soon as the wind calms down in the Alboran Sea, I hear about every other day on channel 16 the advisories to keep a sharp lookout for small rubber-boats with 90 to 120 people. And from time to time (about 3-4 times a year) the local press has notices about corpses found on the beach. Abandoned life-jackets can be found more often.

Look at this statistic specially at the arrivals in Italy and Spain. For those countries, most arrivals are via boat either to Lampedusa and Sicily, or across the Western Mediterranean for Spain. Greece is a mixed bag, as they also have arrivals via land. This statistic isn't an outlier it seems to be pretty close what one experiences in those areas.

Discounting children, about 11% or 13% are women, 89% or 87% men, mostly young men. This numbers are well reflected in the pictures of the boat you see (for fun try to count the women in the crowd), the amount of male immigrants in the camps here in Spain and also the death-toll when one of those boats sink.

The media however is always looking for the one image with the drowned child or woman to stir up the emotions. Nobody really gives a damn about the drowned young men. It isn't surprising, that finding the distribution of men and women rescued is reported so rarely. The usual story is: A woman was found dead, 150 people have been rescued and 10 death. People tend to assume, half of those were women, but it ain't so.

For the children it's safe to assume that they have the same gender distribution as the adults and the vast majority are male teenager between 15 and 18. As the crossing to Spain is longer and harder than the one to Lampedusa, less children in number for Spain in the statistic mentioned above.

I guess you fell in the usual trap where all the numbers are mixed until the preferred narrative is reached. Sure, the big refugee camps in Jordan are full of women and children, and along land-borders the amount of women is also higher (but still 2/3 male refugees minimum). But this isn't true for the boat migrants in the Mediterranean.

And no, the migrants in the boats are exclusively Africans, Middle Easterns and a few Central Asians. No westeners ever.

Tupaia 25-04-2021 02:47

Re: Refugees at Sea
 
You definitions sum it up.


The majority of those in the med are NOT refugees they are illegal economic migrants. No different than vagabonds boarding your boat and expecting to be given the contents of your fridge and hand out from your wallet.


I have no problem supporting humanitarian efforts within affected countries but people who choose to leave those countries with the intention of illegally entering another for a better lifestyle or monetary gain should not be rewarded by being treated as refugees. They are also preventing the fair treatment of people who are truly being persecuted.



The traffickers themselves who knowingly take money for organising the trips are no better than murderers and are being aided and abetted by the NGO's that operate rescue services.

Group9 25-04-2021 05:53

Re: Refugees at Sea
 
There are a lot of countries I would prefer to live in, than where I am now. But, I've never thought I had the right to just show up, and demand to be taken in.

flightlead404 25-04-2021 06:05

Re: Refugees at Sea
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by double u (Post 3393503)
...doesn't "migrant" imply the consent of the country of destination?

No. Why would it?

flightlead404 25-04-2021 06:08

Re: Refugees at Sea
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by boatman61 (Post 3393554)
Its standard practice for the uneffected Liberals to bleat about this.. you won't find them getting the views of the Greeks, Sicilians, Italians and others having to put up with the mainly young males making this trip about the violence and crime they inevitably bring with them.
Breaking..
A female police employee was stabbed to death by a Tunisian man at a police station southwest of Paris today.

From a fiercely liberal person....

We are LONG past the time we should be discussing and implementing global, mandatory birth control.

Why aren't we?

carlosproa 25-04-2021 06:23

Re: Refugees at Sea
 
The story of humanity is messy from its beginning to present day. We were just in a prolonged lull and so is disconcerting for many people the latest migratory movement.
Let’s start with home sapiens and how they pushed into nearthandal territory, wiping most of them and intermixing with few of them. Geographical, economical,and or climate conditions dictates mass migration. Ask native Americans from Patagonia to Alaska how the feel about the migration the wiped them out? Or the wave of illegal immigration into the US? Most third generation Americans have a Rama tic view that their ancestors migrated legally, when they Can just go back and see that less than 25% of Irish, Italian, Swedes, Germans, and other European immigrants came here legally.
The old adage about immigration was: “if you don’t want immigrants in you country, help your neighbor become very attractive to stay.

boatman61 25-04-2021 06:24

Re: Refugees at Sea
 
The UK is going through this as well...
Economic migrants from Afghanistan, Iran, Pakistan and some African countries are making their way into Europe and through several 'Safe' countries to the French coast on the Channel and riding dinghy's across to get into the UK.
Mainly because the UK is seen as a soft touch..
The French 'escort' the dinghies to UK territorial waters where they are picked up by Border Force boats, taken into Dover and then put on coaches to be ferried to hotels across the country where they are accommodated, given 3 squares a day and basic needs pocket money.
There have been stabbing incidences, robberies and assaults in and around these hotels.
They do themselves no favor with a sense of entitlement that equates them on a par with the hardcore 'Dole Scroungers' in the native population.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/128043...office-4-star/

But this and other temporary accommodation is not good enough for them.. even though it's 100's of times better than what is available in Greece.

https://www.breitbart.com/europe/202...army-barracks/

Cyrus Safdari 25-04-2021 13:08

Re: Refugees at Sea
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Group9 (Post 3394512)
. But, I've never thought I had the right to just show up, and demand to be taken in.

Most of the worlds refugees are hosted by Turkey, Uganda etc so not exactly at your door step.
Escaping war and other global crises is not just a preference and people don't trek across continents for fun
And yes actually you do have a right to show up and the host state's responsibility to take you in, determine your status and if qualified provide you with assistance. This is how civilized society works. This isn't a liberal vs conservative issue.
And not so long ago it was Westerners who were the refugees.
https://www.printmag.com/post/polish-refugees-in-iran

Cyrus Safdari 25-04-2021 13:18

Re: Refugees at Sea
 
Hate to break the new to y'all but the mass refugee movement resulting from global warming is just beginning. The "crisis" so far was from refugees from wars in the mideast resulting from the invasion of Iraq and destabilization of Syria but the real crisis is global warming which isn't going to only affect "those people"
People can be ticked off at refugees but that's just a symptom, and dismiss global warming all they want but reality will just wash it away under rising waters. It is ironic that people from poor places that had the least to do with causing global warming will be paying the price more than anyone else https://www.nrdc.org/onearth/climate...n-around-globe

Group9 25-04-2021 14:25

Re: Refugees at Sea
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyrus Safdari (Post 3394794)
Hate to break the new to y'all but the mass refugee movement resulting from global warming is just beginning. The "crisis" so far was from refugees from wars in the mideast resulting from the invasion of Iraq and destabilization of Syria but the real crisis is global warming which isn't going to only affect "those people"
People can be ticked off at refugees but that's just a symptom, and dismiss global warming all they want but reality will just wash it away under rising waters. It is ironic that people from poor places that had the least to do with causing global warming will be paying the price more than anyone else https://www.nrdc.org/onearth/climate...n-around-globe

I hate to break it to you. But, taking a place that has been a shithole for three centuries, and trying to convince us it is now a shithole due to global warming, just isn't going to cut it in the gullibility department..

Cyrus Safdari 25-04-2021 18:34

Re: Refugees at Sea
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Group9 (Post 3394850)
I hate to break it to you. But, taking a place that has been a shithole for three centuries, and trying to convince us it is now a shithole due to global warming, just isn't going to cut it in the gullibility department..

Umm...not sure what you're going on about but global warming is creating refugees all over the world.

Rohan 25-04-2021 19:06

Re: Refugees at Sea
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyrus Safdari (Post 3394399)
And if you were in their placed, you'd do the same. Maybe your grandparents did the same.
https://www.history.com/news/wwii-je...-st-louis-1939

Everyone likes to bring up the St. Louis. But here's the thing - they were nothing like today's asylum seekers. They were fleeing actual political persecution, not poverty.


Quote:

About 1% of the worlds population are refugees. Half are women and children.
Not the ones arriving in boats to Europe.


Quote:

FYI the countries who take in the most refugees aren't even Western. Among the the top ten recipients of refugees, there are 1or 2 European countries (Germany, Sweden) that take most refugees.
https://www.nrc.no/perspectives/2020...most-refugees/
This is extremely misleading. I see that talking point a lot on leftist sites. Yes, the majority right now are in countries like Lebanon and Turkey, because they border Syria, and there's still a civil war going on.

But here's the misleading part - those refugees don't intend to stay there! There is no real plan to integrate them into those countries and for most people no path to citizenship. They are in camps largely funded by western countries, and they are basically waiting to either be settled somewhere else by the UN or for a chance to sneak into Europe.

Cyrus Safdari 25-04-2021 19:39

Re: Refugees at Sea
 
early 2016, women and children accounted for 55% of those reaching Greece
Does it really matter if by boat or land?


Migrant: Person on the move between countries. They can be on the move for many different
reasons including poverty or because they are fleeing natural disasters or war. Refugees, asylum
seekers and economic migrants are all migrants.


Refugee: People outside their country of origin because of feared persecution, conflict, violence, or
other circumstances that have seriously disturbed public order, and who, as a result, require
‘international protection’. Their situation is often so perilous and intolerable, that they cross national
borders to seek safety in nearby countries, and thus become internationally recognized as ‘refugees’
with access to assistance from states, UNHCR, and relevant organizations. Refugees are defined and
protected in international law.

https://reliefweb.int › resourcesPDF

Gender Analysis The Situation of Refugees and Migrants in Greece - ReliefWeb

Not sure what's wrong with migrants becoming citizens, what are they too brown? So the concern really isn't about safety at sea then is it lol?


The sons and daughters of refugees and migrants have been railing against the other more recently arriving migrants and refugees for a long time now, and politicians have long known how to stir up and exploit nativism and fear of foreigners , the people this applies to just changes. We in the US recently had laws banning immigration from Muslim countries.Not so long ago in the US we had laws prohibiting immigration by SouthernEuropean (Catholic) and Eastern European (jewish) people too and prohibited Chinese from becoming citizens and everything said about the migrants today was literally said back then about others. Literally, it was claimed Catholics were out to undermine America, after which the Pope would come do a victory tour.

A little bit of context and history puts the panic into perspective

StuM 25-04-2021 21:13

Re: Refugees at Sea
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyrus Safdari (Post 3394977)
Umm...not sure what you're going on about but global warming is creating refugees all over the world.


Reference?

Cyrus Safdari 25-04-2021 21:43

Re: Refugees at Sea
 
Everyone has access to Google as I do,


https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...migration.html

Tuvalu and other small 8sland states are already depopulating and considering plans for mass migration though they're not happy about being called refugees. The average altitude of these islands is just a couple meters.
https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley....2/2014EF000278



The real impact is probably first coming from Bangladesh, which is already flooded and also happens to be one of the most populous countries in the world.


https://www.theguardian.com/global-d...climate-change

https://www.pri.org/stories/2019-03-...ing-bangladesh

Actusl facts and numbers matter.


Oh and in reality most refugees return to their country of origin...if it is still there and not underwater:

In 2019, only half a per cent of the world’s refugees were resettled. Over the past decade, just over 1 million refugees were resettled, compared to 3.9 million refugees who returned to their country https://www.amnesty.org/en/what-we-d...ics-and-facts/

GordMay 26-04-2021 02:06

Re: Refugees at Sea
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyrus Safdari (Post 3394977)
Umm...not sure what you're going on about but global warming is creating refugees all over the world.

Quote:

Originally Posted by StuM (Post 3395028)
Reference?

The subject is rife with references:

“A New Framework for U.S. Leadership on Climate Migration” ~ Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS)
“Climate migration is poised to be one of the biggest human development and security challenges of the next several decades, yet policymakers and the research community are just now understanding the myriad impacts of climate change on human mobility ..”
https://www.csis.org/analysis/new-fr...mate-migration

“What climate change will mean for US security and geopolitics” ~ Brookings Institution
https://www.brookings.edu/blog/order...d-geopolitics/

“Climate change, migration and critical international security considerations” ~ Robert McLeman
https://publications.iom.int/system/files/pdf/mrs42.pdf

“Climate Change Migration: Developing a Security Strategy for All” ~ Rand Corp
https://www.rand.org/blog/2021/03/cl...-strategy.html

“Climate Change and National Security: Balancing the Costs and Benefits” ~ CATO Institute
https://www.cato.org/publications/cl...costs-benefits

“THE PERFECT STORM: CLIMATE-INDUCED MIGRATIONTO THE UNITED STATES” ~ by Katelin M. Wright
https://www.hsdl.org/?view&did=847117

GordMay 26-04-2021 04:00

Re: Refugees at Sea
 
The U.S. Military has long recognized climate change as a national security threat.

But rather than debating the causes of climate change or assigning blame, they focus on how warming undermines security, and on practical steps to slow its advance and minimize damage.

“Changing weather patterns, rising temperatures, and dramatic shifts in rainfall contribute to drought, famine, migration, and resource competition” in Africa, General Thomas D. Waldhauser, then commander of the U.S. Africa Command, told the Senate Armed Services Committee in February 2019. “As each group seeks land for its own purposes, violent conflict can ensue.”
https://www.armed-services.senate.go...r_02-07-19.pdf

“Climate change is an urgent and growing threat to our national security, contributing to increased natural disasters, refugee flows, and conflicts over basic resources such as food and water,” the Department of Defense (DoD) told Congress in a 2015 memorandum. “These impacts are already occurring, and the scope, scale, and intensity of these impacts are projected to increase over time.”
https://archive.defense.gov/pubs/150...ate-change.pdf

“UPDATE: Chronology of U.S. Military Statements and Actions on Climate Change and Security: Jan 2017- Oct 2019"
“Since January 2017, at least thirty-five senior officials at the U.S. Defense Department (DoD) have publicly raised concerns about, and recommended actions to address, the security implications of climate change, both due to its effect on military infrastructure, readiness and operations, and its broader geostrategic implications for the United States ...”
https://climateandsecurity.org/2019/...november-2019/

Rohan 26-04-2021 04:19

Re: Refugees at Sea
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyrus Safdari (Post 3394977)
Umm...not sure what you're going on about but global warming is creating refugees all over the world.

I have no doubt that climate change has a small effect on migration, but not the largest driver, not by a long shot. The reality is that the tiny change in temperature is completely overshadowed by in effect by the skyrocketing population growth of Africa and poorer countries in Asia and the Middle East, regions that can't support the population they have now, much less a doubled population a few years from now.

https://images.app.goo.gl/C5P97PwdHJ7U9di86

Rohan 26-04-2021 04:40

Re: Refugees at Sea
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyrus Safdari (Post 3394999)
early 2016, women and children accounted for 55% of those reaching Greece

The ones reaching Greece are largely sneaking over from refugee camps in Turkey. That's not representative of migrants entering Europe overall.

BTW, a hell of a lot of these "children" are in fact not children at all. One Swedish study showed that about 84% of the children whose age were in doubt were in fact much older than 18.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-42234585

You can look at some photos here - there are men with wrinkles and even gray hairs claiming to be kids!

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ed-age-18.html



Quote:

Not sure what's wrong with migrants becoming citizens, what are they too brown? So the concern really isn't about safety at sea then is it lol?
Good question. Why don't you ask wealthy Middle Eastern countries why they are not offering the refugees citizenship? Or taking them in at all? In fact, Saudi Arabia could easily take in hundreds of thousands of their fellow Muslims, they have massive tent cities equipped with everything people need, that are only used during the yearly pilgrimages to Mecca. Why don't they want to take them? Because they are brown?

The reality is that migrants head toward Europe and European majority countries like the US, Australia, and Canada because those countries are wealthy and extremely generous. They will even put themselves at risk by travelling a further 1000s of miles to reach them. This isn't about safety, this is about collecting benefits.

flightlead404 26-04-2021 17:37

Re: Refugees at Sea
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Group9 (Post 3394850)
I hate to break it to you. But, taking a place that has been a shithole for three centuries, and trying to convince us it is now a shithole due to global warming, just isn't going to cut it in the gullibility department..

Water riots have been happening for 20 years now (from memory, see Boliva and coming soon to California since they've emptied the aquifers).

Its only going to get worse.

flightlead404 26-04-2021 17:40

Re: Refugees at Sea
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Rohan (Post 3395143)
I have no doubt that climate change has a small effect on migration, but not the largest driver, not by a long shot. The reality is that the tiny change in temperature is completely overshadowed by in effect by the skyrocketing population growth of Africa and poorer countries in Asia and the Middle East, regions that can't support the population they have now, much less a doubled population a few years from now.

https://images.app.goo.gl/C5P97PwdHJ7U9di86

Which is why we should be implementing global mandatory birth control. Perhaps something that can be deployed from crop dusters.

boatman61 26-04-2021 19:11

Re: Refugees at Sea
 
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by flightlead404 (Post 3395680)
Which is why we should be implementing global mandatory birth control. Perhaps something that can be deployed from crop dusters.

We have the vaccines... Heheheheeee...

Tillikum 26-04-2021 19:37

Re: Refugees at Sea
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by flightlead404 (Post 3394521)
From a fiercely liberal person....

We are LONG past the time we should be discussing and implementing global, mandatory birth control.

Why aren't we?


Because we don't yet live in a totalitarian global state. Take heart though, measures are in hand to bring that about. Unfortunately you may be one of the eggs broken in the making of the brave new omelette. I am sorry, but no doubt you understand that it is for the good of the cause?

:biggrin:

GordMay 30-04-2021 04:49

Re: Refugees at Sea
 
These rescuers want to save refugees fleeing Libya by sea. But they're trapped on shore by red tape

Five of seven NGO rescue boats now in the Mediterranean are currently unable to leave port — four of which are blocked in Italy for administrative reasons.
"What we're witnessing is a situation of three different strategies," said Giorgia Linardi, the legal advisor for Sea-Watch.
"We have a renewed interest of prosecutors in investigating NGOs for facilitating illegal immigration, media attacks against NGOs and the latest — blocking NGO ships in port through administrative measures."

As the rescue boats idle in Italian ports, refugees stranded at sea are dying as they attempt to reach safe harbour. So far this year, almost 9,000 people have crossed to Italy, with almost 1,000 dying during their attempts, according to the UNHCR, the UN refugee agency.

More ➥ https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/these-...tape-1.6007111

UNHCR ➥ https://data2.unhcr.org/fr/situation.../location/5205

Cyrus Safdari 30-04-2021 05:04

Re: Refugees at Sea
 
Whats going on in Phoenix, Arizona:
https://www.abc15.com/weather/impact...climate-change

valhalla360 30-04-2021 05:09

Re: Refugees at Sea
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by silkie (Post 3394396)
Emigrants when they leave, migrants on arrival. These unfortunates didn't make it to "migrant" status, IMO.
Not that words change anything in these situations.

If words have no impact, the 3rd Reich wouldn't have had a propaganda master.

A few years back there was a very much intentional (they even admitted it) choice by the media to stop using the term "illegal alien" and replace it with "undocumented immigrant".

If words don't change anything, why would they make a change from the more accurate description?

Words have a huge impact.

If you want these dangerous trips organized by dangerous criminal organizations to stop, don't reward those who break the rules. Send them home. If you are worried about refugees, follow the processes for refugees that are already set up. When breaking the rules works, they tell their friends back home and those friends break the rules. So we can lay these deaths at the NGOs and the official immigration authorities and tacitly encourage these dangerous voyages.


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