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-   -   How to Judge Pandemic Policies (https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f168/how-to-judge-pandemic-policies-247760.html)

GordMay 26-03-2021 13:17

Re: How to Judge Pandemic Policies
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Group9 (Post 3373957)
... Here is another one that the CDC will find not to be vaccine related. Yesterday, a woman collapsed minutes after getting the Covid shot, still at the place she got the shot at, and then died after they transported her to the hospital.

I'm sure it will be found to be a mere coincidence by the CDC to keep that 100 per cent safety record going.

Anyone want to take that bet? ...

So, are you betting that, if the local coroner, and the CDC find that the woman's death was not caused by the Covid vaccine, it must prove that the CDC is whitewashing the event?
Or, are you betting that the death wasn't caused by the vaccine, and the CDC will [accurately] so find?
Either way, I think you're engaging in a premature speculation.

GordMay 26-03-2021 13:24

Re: How to Judge Pandemic Policies
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DumnMad (Post 3373993)
Not really a mild disease but:
During 2020 many more died of heart disease in US than Covids ...

COVID-19 passed heart disease as the leading cause of death, in early December [2020], according to the Dec 4 report, from the Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation*.

More than 11,800 COVID-19 deaths were reported, passing heart disease at 10,700 deaths, lung and tracheal cancer at nearly 4,000 deaths, chronic obstructive pulmonary disease at more than 3,700 deaths, and stroke at more than 3,600 deaths.

* “COVID-19 Results Briefing: the United States of America” December 4, 2020
https://www.healthdata.org/sites/def...S_20201204.pdf

DumnMad 26-03-2021 18:10

Re: How to Judge Pandemic Policies
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by GordMay (Post 3374029)
COVID-19 passed heart disease as the leading cause of death, in early December [2020], according to the Dec 4 report, from the Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation*.

More than 11,800 COVID-19 deaths were reported, passing heart disease at 10,700 deaths, lung and tracheal cancer at nearly 4,000 deaths, chronic obstructive pulmonary disease at more than 3,700 deaths, and stroke at more than 3,600 deaths.

* “COVID-19 Results Briefing: the United States of America” December 4, 2020
https://www.healthdata.org/sites/def...S_20201204.pdf

You are cherry picking.
655,000 die each year in the US from heart disease.

https://www.cdc.gov/heartdisease/fac...14%20to%202015.

44'cruisingcat 26-03-2021 19:49

Re: How to Judge Pandemic Policies
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect (Post 3360544)
I believe there are good examples of the US pulling together as a nation in the face of crisis, so I don't think it's that. It has more to do with one party's leader deciding that his best move (for CYA and strategic reasons) was to downplay the severity of COVID and to openly mock the precautions.

But what's half a million olds, feebs and sickos, anyway? Survival of the fittest.

If you look at who was running the states where most "olds feebs and sickos" died, you might be surprised.

And that is largely the problem the US has. The states decide their own policies, the federal government has little say in that.

44'cruisingcat 26-03-2021 19:55

Re: How to Judge Pandemic Policies
 
For me personally, reasonably young and healthy, living in Australia where community transmission is near zero, and living the cruising lifestyle, Covid poses little risk.

Therefore the vaccine offers little potential beneft. ie, I'm extremely unlikely to catch Covid, and even if I did, it's unlikely I'd get sick from it.

So I'm happy enough to wait and see for a while.

Lake-Effect 26-03-2021 19:58

Re: How to Judge Pandemic Policies
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DumnMad (Post 3374205)
You are cherry picking.
655,000 die each year in the US from heart disease.

https://www.cdc.gov/heartdisease/fac...14%20to%202015.

... you probably didn't read the link. Gord's summary left out one tiny little bit; those numbers were for ONE WEEK - the week prior to Dec 4, I believe.

For that week:

  1. COVID-19: 11,820
  2. Ischemic heart disease: 10,724

So, for that week, COVID was the US's #1 cause of death.

... and another reference.

COVID's current US tally of 543,975 deaths is certainly in the same league as heart disease, I'm sure you'd agree.

DumnMad 26-03-2021 20:05

Re: How to Judge Pandemic Policies
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect (Post 3374259)
... you probably didn't read the link. Gord's summary left out one tiny little bit; those numbers were for ONE WEEK - the week prior to Dec 4, I believe.

For that week:

  1. COVID-19: 11,820
  2. Ischemic heart disease: 10,724

So, for that week, COVID was the US's #1 cause of death.

... and another reference.

COVID's current US tally of 543,975 deaths is certainly in the same league as heart disease, I'm sure you'd agree.

:facepalm:
Thats why I say he is cherry picking. Gord's post was in response to my statement about annual deaths.

Lake-Effect 26-03-2021 20:18

Re: How to Judge Pandemic Policies
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DumnMad (Post 3374262)
:facepalm:
Thats why I say he is cherry picking. Gord's post was in response to my statement about annual deaths.

Your stat for annual US deaths from heart disease: 655,000.
COVID's US tally to date (CDC): 543,975

... not bad for a rookie disease in their first year, huh?

(in other words, no they're really not that far apart, statistically speaking)

DumnMad 26-03-2021 22:36

Re: How to Judge Pandemic Policies
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect (Post 3374270)
Your stat for annual US deaths from heart disease: 655,000.
COVID's US tally to date (CDC): 543,975

... not bad for a rookie disease in their first year, huh?

(in other words, no they're really not that far apart, statistically speaking)

No a long way apart.
655,000 die of heart disease every year(many a long lingering death and put a heavy burden on the health system.)
US Covids is passed its peak so a much lower rate expected for next year but the heart disease juggernaut will continue.
Somehow heart disease and obesity are not taken nearly as seriously even though some countries do so much better.
France for example has less than 40% the heart disease death rate of the US. Proves something can be done about it.

GordMay 27-03-2021 02:11

Re: How to Judge Pandemic Policies
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DumnMad (Post 3374205)
You are cherry picking.
655,000 die each year in the US from heart disease.

https://www.cdc.gov/heartdisease/fac...14%20to%202015.

Indeed, you're right.

About 655,000 Americans die from heart disease each year.
“Heart Disease Facts” ~ CDChttps://www.cdc.gov/heartdisease/facts.htm

Number of U.S. adults with diagnosed heart disease: 30.3 million
Percent of adults with diagnosed heart disease: 12.1%
Number of U.S. deaths: 659,041
Deaths per 100,000 population: 200.8
Cause of death rank: 1
“Heart Disease” ~ CDChttps://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/heart-disease.htm

In 2019, the top 10 causes of death [worldwide] accounted for 55% of the 55.4 million deaths worldwide.
The top global causes of death, in order of total number of lives lost, are associated with three broad topics: cardiovascular (ischaemic heart disease, stroke), respiratory (chronic obstructive pulmonary disease, lower respiratory infections) and neonatal conditions – which include birth asphyxia and birth trauma, neonatal sepsis and infections, and preterm birth complications.
The world’s biggest killer is ischaemic heart disease [followed by stroke], responsible for 16% of the world’s total deaths.
“The top 10 causes of death” ~ WHOhttps://www.who.int/news-room/fact-s...auses-of-death


GordMay 27-03-2021 04:04

Re: How to Judge Pandemic Policies
 
“Is Ontario ending its COVID-19 lockdowns too early?” ~ CBC News
Some doctors say lockdown measures should be in place for another few weeks in Ontario, until daily cases dropped below 150. They say such a move would have prevented the current surge — and perhaps future lockdowns.
Video https://www.cbc.ca/player/play/1878466627751

Dockhead 27-03-2021 05:20

Re: How to Judge Pandemic Policies
 
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by GordMay (Post 3374374)
“Is Ontario ending its COVID-19 lockdowns too early?” ~ CBC News
Some doctors say lockdown measures should be in place for another few weeks in Ontario, until daily cases dropped below 150. They say such a move would have prevented the current surge — and perhaps future lockdowns.
Video https://www.cbc.ca/player/play/1878466627751


Considering the low rate of vaccine, that may be right. i would not want to be in the shoes of the policymakers.


Or it might not be right -- who knows. Texas was criticized for ending ALL restrictions, even masking (I would not have gone that far), at the beginning of the month, but so far so good there:


Attachment 235315


There no obvious relationship.

Lake-Effect 27-03-2021 07:28

Re: How to Judge Pandemic Policies
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DumnMad (Post 3374303)
Somehow heart disease and obesity are not taken nearly as seriously even though some countries do so much better.
France for example has less than 40% the heart disease death rate of the US. Proves something can be done about it.

I agree with all of that. Unfortunately, lifestyle is a choice; some countries are simply resistant to any attempts to encourage, coerce or legislate "healthy" lifestyles. For example, what's some people's answer to cars (pollution, traffic)? MOAR CARZ! (electric, self-driving). Not enough emphasis in N America on simply making cities more conducive to walking and cycling... which of course would improve fitness. Most French cities are walkable, more markets, etc.

But the fact that the death toll from COVID got anywhere close to that of heart disease underscores the broad failure to come to grips with it quickly.

Lake-Effect 27-03-2021 07:56

Re: How to Judge Pandemic Policies
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by GordMay (Post 3374374)
“Is Ontario ending its COVID-19 lockdowns too early?” ~ CBC News
Some doctors say lockdown measures should be in place for another few weeks in Ontario, until daily cases dropped below 150. They say such a move would have prevented the current surge — and perhaps future lockdowns.
Video https://www.cbc.ca/player/play/1878466627751

Yeah. Premier Ford is trying to hit the difference between continued caution, and showing a bit more of the light at the end of the tunnel. Here in 'gray-zone' Toronto, more than a few small businesses (especially bars and restaurants) are at the end of their rope, and of course covid fatigue is rampant, though the nice spring weather has helped. I hope they made the right call, but we'll see. More contagious variants, especially the B1.1.7 variant now make up over 50% of the cases in Ontario, and ~70% in Toronto.

Toronto claims that 436k people have been vaccinated
, which is approx 10%. Grandma L-E has had her first shot. Mr & Mrs L-E have been on a pharmacy chain's vaccination waitlist for over a week now, without hearing a peep about even a rough timetable. Frustrating. But we're still ahead of the first announced timetables...

GordMay 27-03-2021 10:04

Re: How to Judge Pandemic Policies
 
Dr. Deborah Birx, who served as the White House coronavirus response coordinator under the Trump administration, reveals her chilling conclusion, in a new CNN documentary, that the number of coronavirus deaths could have been "decreased substantially", if cities and states across the country had aggressively applied the lessons of the first surge, toward mitigation last spring, potentially preventing the surges that followed.

CNN Chief Medical Correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta asked six of the doctors, who ran point on the pandemic response, including Birx, to provide their insights on what the US could have done differently, in the new documentary, "COVID WAR: The Pandemic Doctors Speak Out", which airs Sunday at 9 p.m. ET on CNN.

The doctors all painfully dissected the country's missteps, that led to the enormous loss of life.
But Birx saw it most starkly, stating that the vast majority of America's deaths could have been prevented, a painful interpretation of the last year, for a nation still trying to come to terms with the ongoing loss of life.

“Autopsy of a pandemic: 6 doctors at the center of the US Covid-19 response” ~ by Dr. Sanjay Gupta, CNN
https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/26/healt...pta/index.html

Watch: "COVID WAR: The Pandemic Doctors Speak Out" on CNN, at 9 p.m. Sunday, March 28.


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