Cruisers & Sailing Forums (https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/)
-   Engines and Propulsion Systems (https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f54/)
-   -   Mechanics Time for Replacing Injectors (https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f54/mechanics-time-for-replacing-injectors-246345.html)

BitteredSling 12-02-2021 14:40

Mechanics Time for Replacing Injectors
 
Hey,

Curious if anyone could share how many hours they were charged for testing/servicing the fuel injectors on their engine.

I have a Perkins 4108 that we recently had the injectors pulled, shop tested, overhauled, and re-installed.

We were billed for 10 hours of labor for that piece of the work which seemed a little high but not totally out of the ballpark given that we were told the injectors were stuck and hard to remove.

Can't seem to find a good point of reference for what the usual time spent on this job is. Would appreciate your input.

patagonik 12-02-2021 14:56

Re: Mechanics Time for Replacing Injectors
 
Hello, I am dedicated to diesel injection in Argentina, cleaning, adjusting and calibrating 4 injectors of 4-108 takes 3 hours at most. Plus the time to remove and place them in the engine. In my country that would have an approximate cost of u $$ 200 ...... but we are not a reference to anything.
greetings
Sergio

rbk 12-02-2021 14:59

Re: Mechanics Time for Replacing Injectors
 
Really depends on the shop rate. Part4engnes has 4108 injectors for (USD) $70 each TAD is around $90 and there's a place in Oregon that has them for $60. Most are rebuilt but I think TAD has brand new ones for a bit more each (like $100-120).

ulpilot45 12-02-2021 15:03

Re: Mechanics Time for Replacing Injectors
 
It depends on where the engine is located and accessible to the injector i have done them in 1 hr to remove and 8 in a Gulfstar with engine under the galley counter if that helps . But in my shop I test them for 5.00 each and rebuild for 65.00 each not removal time

Sailmonkey 12-02-2021 15:12

Re: Mechanics Time for Replacing Injectors
 
Is travel time a part of those 10?

I can easily see 4 hours of travel and 6 of actual work on the engine.

BitteredSling 12-02-2021 15:31

Re: Mechanics Time for Replacing Injectors
 
I think Sailmonkey is likely right. Our boat is only about 10 minutes away from their shop but I'm sure there is a minimum trip charge that just isn't broken out in our invoice. The hours billed are related only to the remove and replace time though.

Thanks for your responses everyone!

Scubableu 13-02-2021 11:07

Re: Mechanics Time for Replacing Injectors
 
$240 for the same engine in S. Louisiana about 4 years ago. Sorry did not keep the bill so I can't quote the hours.

skipmac 13-02-2021 17:05

Re: Mechanics Time for Replacing Injectors
 
Pulling injectors is a pretty simple job even for a non mechanic like me. Took me an hour or so to pull four even persuading a couple that were reluctant to come out. Shipped them off to a specialty shop (non in my area) and had them rebuilt for $65 each. Took me a little longer to replace them as I was being careful with replacing the lines.

Wotname 13-02-2021 17:21

Re: Mechanics Time for Replacing Injectors
 
Hmm.... it depends really on how hard they are to remove. Some are easy, some are harder, some are difficult and some are just downright almost impossible.

I have seen good mechanics just give up after an hour or so on trying to remove just one injector.

Wotname 13-02-2021 17:25

Re: Mechanics Time for Replacing Injectors
 
FWIW.

For an almost impossible one see this thread :biggrin:

https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ve-210170.html

gbmacca 13-02-2021 20:41

Re: Mechanics Time for Replacing Injectors
 
Interesting thoughts!
It took me about 3 hours to remove 16 injectors from 2x Detroit 8v71's with a special levering tool with no major problems.
Mechanics here in Perth Western Australia charge $120 - $140/hr plus travel time and we caught one guy doing work in the mariner, going from one jetty to the other and charging each client $100 for travel time.
I sit and watch mechanics on other boats and reckon they can spend nearly 30% of their time -- on mobiles - which you pay for chucky!!
Not enough apprenticeships - so these tradesmen - become precious --
Cheers
Gbmacca

DeValency 13-02-2021 21:02

Re: Mechanics Time for Replacing Injectors
 
It sounds way too much for the job, but guess you were not there so any number they give you may win. I had a mechanic in Martinique removing my four injectors from the Volvo TMD31 in about 20 min, we drove for an hour to a Bosch lab for inspection that came out fine after half an hour (with no charge), but we had to first wait an hour as they were in a lunch break... :). Then an hour drive back and reinstallation etc. - he felt uncomfortable to ask for two hours, as there was nothing wrong with the injectors - I paid him for four... A great honest guy I have recommended throughout the Caribbean.

In the other hand, I can see how a certain boatyard I was at (not my choice) didn’t hesitate to (at least) quadruple the actual time for any job without any excuse.

Bottom line. If you can, don’t let any trade touch your boat without your presence. Not that some of these may still show up at 10 and leave at 11 and still ask for 4 hours...

oldcal46skipper 14-02-2021 05:28

Re: Mechanics Time for Replacing Injectors
 
Hi,
I have been rebuilding fuel injectors over 40 years, after completing "Marine Diesel Engine" school. Now due to age 82 & various health challenges, like arthritis in my hands, that's about all I can do. I do not crawl around in boats anymore, so you bring our injectors to me & you are welcome to witness my test, no charge so far.


Perkins 4.108 Lucas or CAV injectors.


For the Perkins 4.108 removal, the "bridge" that holds the injector in must be removed. Be careful as it is cast iron and breaks easily. Then using a removal tool that bridges the injector and screws into the return line fitting on top. Sometimes it is necessary to soak them (PB Blaster or similar) for several days if they are seized.



Mr. Perkins says this should be done each 1,000 hours of running time. Check your engine builders manual.


After testing, I apply paint remover, wait, clean with wire brush all paint from exterior, as the cleaner I use is $80 a gallon.



I take the injectors completely apart, carefully examining all parts. The flats that mate are all surfaced, using 500 grit wet sandpaper, splashed with mineral spirits. Each flat is given 5 "Lazy Eights" 12,3,6 & 9 O'clock. Then examined with magnification.


The parts are rinsed with solvent, (paint thinner is okay) and placed in the chemical cleaner for at least 24 hours. The strainer container is drained and the parts rinsed with solvent & placed in a small container of solvent.


I have my air hose ready as I remove each part, blow it off and place into my stainless steel assembly bowl that is partially filled with clean diesel fuel. With my rubber gloves on, I assemble while in the fuel. Then I torque the nozzle holder and insert fitting for fuel in.


I immediately tighten the adjustment screw to approximate pressure for the 2,200 PSI for Perkins 4.108 fuel injectors. They are placed onto the tester, I prefer the old manual tester, and pumped and adjusted to design pressure. After observing the spray pattern, I pump to almost opening pressure and observe for leaks.


If all is well, I clean any fuel or solvent off, using masking tape I cover the input, low pressure return opening and nozzle holder. I first put them upside down in a cardboard box bottom with appropriate sized holes.


I use a very good spray paint that is rated 500 degrees F, Three coats of primer, then 3 coats of Perkins Blue or _____?


I caution the installer to clean the surface where the injector crush washer seats. Use a bowl brush the correct size, then vacuum and rust or debris. Always use a new crush washer and torque the hold down "bridge" very carefully and evenly to 12Ft Pounds.


I charge $75 each which includes a new nozzle.


I have previously posted my directions, "Diesel Fuel Systems on Sailboats" I'll Email a copy on request. I wrote this after some customers used dirty, old diesel fuel and damaged their high pressure pump and/or injectors.

Snore 14-02-2021 05:50

Re: Mechanics Time for Replacing Injectors
 
I just replaced the three injectors on my boat. What should have been a quick bada-bing Bada-boom project, cork screwed. First I had to fully remove the fuel supply tubes to access the center injector. Secondary problem was that when I re-bled the system, the plastic/metal composit crush washer failed (well it was 40 years old).

Total job took 3+ hours for a decent shade-tree mechanic.

FWIW, I used Kubota injectors, they were about 1/3 the price of Universal injectors..... for the same engine!

jimbunyard 14-02-2021 06:24

Re: Mechanics Time for Replacing Injectors
 
There's just no way of knowing. Could be they're giving you a break, could be they're giving you the shaft.

If the company has a reputable reputation and something to lose for stiffing you, I'd be less inclined to think they were.

We know the engine is old, if it's been years since the injectors have been removed, an hour or two per injector is not out of the question, especially if the work space is cramped.

You've not given us any information about it, but perhaps some more pre-job-agreement communication might have helped lessen the sticker-shock...

DeValency 14-02-2021 06:45

Re: Mechanics Time for Replacing Injectors
 
Thatís very impressive Dr. Injectors!

I could use your knowledge on a last year passage from St Lucia to Sint Maarten, where an old diesel bacteria partly glued the non return ball at the primary filter. Three mechanics couldnít trace it as it was not a permanent clogging....

Nothing like daily, delicate manual work on a bench to treat arthritis :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldcal46skipper (Post 3342593)
Hi,
I have been rebuilding fuel injectors over 40 years, after completing "Marine Diesel Engine" school. Now due to age 82 & various health challenges, like arthritis in my hands, that's about all I can do. I do not crawl around in boats anymore, so you bring our injectors to me & you are welcome to witness my test, no charge so far.


Perkins 4.108 Lucas or CAV injectors.


For the Perkins 4.108 removal, the "bridge" that holds the injector in must be removed. Be careful as it is cast iron and breaks easily. Then using a removal tool that bridges the injector and screws into the return line fitting on top. Sometimes it is necessary to soak them (PB Blaster or similar) for several days if they are seized.



Mr. Perkins says this should be done each 1,000 hours of running time. Check your engine builders manual.


After testing, I apply paint remover, wait, clean with wire brush all paint from exterior, as the cleaner I use is $80 a gallon.



I take the injectors completely apart, carefully examining all parts. The flats that mate are all surfaced, using 500 grit wet sandpaper, splashed with mineral spirits. Each flat is given 5 "Lazy Eights" 12,3,6 & 9 O'clock. Then examined with magnification.


The parts are rinsed with solvent, (paint thinner is okay) and placed in the chemical cleaner for at least 24 hours. The strainer container is drained and the parts rinsed with solvent & placed in a small container of solvent.


I have my air hose ready as I remove each part, blow it off and place into my stainless steel assembly bowl that is partially filled with clean diesel fuel. With my rubber gloves on, I assemble while in the fuel. Then I torque the nozzle holder and insert fitting for fuel in.


I immediately tighten the adjustment screw to approximate pressure for the 2,200 PSI for Perkins 4.108 fuel injectors. They are placed onto the tester, I prefer the old manual tester, and pumped and adjusted to design pressure. After observing the spray pattern, I pump to almost opening pressure and observe for leaks.


If all is well, I clean any fuel or solvent off, using masking tape I cover the input, low pressure return opening and nozzle holder. I first put them upside down in a cardboard box bottom with appropriate sized holes.


I use a very good spray paint that is rated 500 degrees F, Three coats of primer, then 3 coats of Perkins Blue or _____?


I caution the installer to clean the surface where the injector crush washer seats. Use a bowl brush the correct size, then vacuum and rust or debris. Always use a new crush washer and torque the hold down "bridge" very carefully and evenly to 12Ft Pounds.


I charge $75 each which includes a new nozzle.


I have previously posted my directions, "Diesel Fuel Systems on Sailboats" I'll Email a copy on request. I wrote this after some customers used dirty, old diesel fuel and damaged their high pressure pump and/or injectors.


waterman46 14-02-2021 17:00

Re: Mechanics Time for Replacing Injectors
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rbk (Post 3341654)
Really depends on the shop rate. Part4engnes has 4108 injectors for (USD) $70 each TAD is around $90 and there's a place in Oregon that has them for $60. Most are rebuilt but I think TAD has brand new ones for a bit more each (like $100-120).


OP wanted to know how much time for removing, cleaning and re-installing the old ones.

I'm a total amateur, but I've had to R and R an injector now and then. I can't see how the remove/replace for 4 cylinders on my Perkins would take more than 30 minutes, maybe an hour if I wanted to impress my wife and have a cup of coffee halfway through the job. That includes finding my torque wrench, etc.

Even if you include travel time and the cleaning, 6 hours is really stretching it. You can buy an ultrasonic cleaner for much less and DIY there is nothing to adjust or worry about other than replacing the compression seals.


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:14.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.


ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.