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-   -   Feds Seek Info on Manatee Crime (https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f129/feds-seek-info-on-manatee-crime-244991.html)

Mike OReilly 21-01-2021 07:51

Re: Feds Seek Info on Manatee Crime
 
Mark, I understand your frustration, and agree with your general assessment of some folks here. Some people insist on turning this, and virtually every topic, into a political debate. And certainly some (too many) are wrapped in their own personal fact bubbles.

In this case it is it irrelevant what was scrawled on the algae on this Manatee. The crime is the interaction with the animal. There is a clear law, with consequences spelled out. The law is based on biology and conservation matters around these animals. If you disagree with the law, then try and change it. But that doesn't change the facts of this case.

One thing I don't agree with you on though is the call to close this discussion. Threads are not owned by the person who starts them, just like no one owns a discussion in the real world. The original poster poses a question or comment, but after that, the OP has no control over where the discussion goes. And that's the way it should be.

Manateeman 21-01-2021 08:40

Re: Feds Seek Info on Manatee Crime
 
OK. Let the thread roll on. I didn’t intend to claim ownership, I’m just tired of the repeated posts claiming the manatee was not injured. Tired of all the politics.
Reconciliation is difficult when discussing the law or when anecdotal stories are introduced as if they are facts.
The laws protecting manatees were the end result of the democratic process itself. It was called the “Manatee Settlement”. The Federal Government, the Environmental groups and the manatee scientists, ALL had to present their evidence before the court. There was a lot of give and take from both sides.
Especially, the language. The court recognized how serious the consequences would be if manatees were not strenuously protected. And this was before science understood manatees and papilloma !
My father was an attorney in Admirality. I wrote a lengthy piece in a letter to the USCG about how I thought maritime law applied to vessels which collided with manatees and whales. I had also written extensively on marine mammal bioacoustics. When the laws were being drafted, I was asked if entire sections could be incorporated word for word from my letters. I was surprised and pleased to contribute to the settlement between the parties. I asked and received from my friends in Norway substantial funds to support the medical research into the immune system of manatees and how it resisted papilloma virus.
How anyone can hurt such an important and harmless creature is beyond me.
Similarly, why this post became political in any way, is something I cannot understand. I no sooner finished posting and I was called “ insulting” and told what to post and so on. So...OK, I guess this will go on and on which is fine with me because maybe somebody will send some money to help the manatees.
Happy trails to you.
Captain Mark and his Manatee crew “sticking up wanted posters on the docks”.:thumb:

japawil 21-01-2021 21:05

Re: Feds Seek Info on Manatee Crime
 
To review:
Manateeman made a post to bring attention to the fact that the feds were seeking information on a crime committed in FL of someone writing the word “trump” on the back of a manatee. And that a reward was being offered as an incentive for anybody with information and how to go about contacting the authorities.
(facts)
He used the word “carved”, which we assume was the word used in the news source from which he learned about the incident.

A couple people responded in a show of support and condemned the act expressing a desire for those responsible to be prosecuted according to the law. (one individual resorting to hyperbole of bodily harm)

A few more weighed in agreeing that prosecution was warranted, but took exception to the word “carved” being used, suggesting that it was an exaggeration of what had happened to the animal.

In this context the words “scratched”, “scraped”, “scrawled”, “etched”, “carved”, and “gouged” are synonyms of the descriptor of what method was used to write the word on the manatee’s back, all of which have been used in this thread. (along with “wiped” and “brushed”)
Regardless of which word the posters used they all seemed to condemn the act and agree that prosecution was warranted.

Next followed lamenting of human impact on nature and wild species, with all agreeing that the incident was inexcusable.
Followed by suggestions that there should be more attention to manatees being injured by propellers.

And then came several suggestions that the REAL injustice was that the news used the word “carved” to describe what had happened, and that WHAT was written on the manatee’s back would have altered the view of those who took umbrage had it perhaps been a different word.
That the incident wasn’t such a big deal as the “media” was making it out to be.

It seems there are two camps:

•One camp that sees a crime was committed by molesting a manatee (the law of which has been quoted a few times) and that those responsable should face the judgment of the legal authorities.

•One camp that sees the real problem as the exaggeration of the media that is inciting political division by using the word “carved” instead of other more perceived accurate (or in this case preferred) descriptors such as “wiped” or “brushed off the algae”, with one posters describing it as “similar to using a finger to write on a steamed up mirror”.
They tend to believe it is pure politics.
Yet, although diminishing the severity of the descriptor used, still concede that the act was illegal as exemplified in the quote; “essentially someone illegally petting a manatee”.

So we have a scale of descriptors with “carved” at the high end and “wiped” at the low end. The middle ground being maybe “scratched”?

Questions:

What descriptor was used in the first news account that brought this incident to your attention?

How many news sources have you read/seen concerning this incident, and where on the scale would you place the consensus or average of the descriptors used?

The answers to these questions (and how you have reacted to them) may suggest your susceptibility to media manipulation and perhaps are something to be aware of?

Now since the one thing it seems both camps agree on is the fact that the incident was illegal (even if only technically in some opinions), let me draw your attention back to the original post.
If you have any information concerning this incident, please contact the authorities listed to help find those responsible. There is even a reward; wouldn’t that be nice!

GordMay 22-01-2021 03:03

Re: Feds Seek Info on Manatee Crime
 
Quote:

... What descriptor was used in the first news account that brought this incident to your attention? ...
I, first read, about the incident, on CF - so “carved” was the first verb, I saw.
Then, I read about it, in the NY Times, which headlined "Someone Wrote ‘Trump’ on a Florida Manatee".
At the time, both seemed accurate, to me; but I do see, in retrospect, how some might see "carved' to be somewhat hyperbolic (still technically accurate).

Manateeman 22-01-2021 07:24

Re: Feds Seek Info on Manatee Crime
 
Again...this crime has nothing to do with what word ended up on the manatee, nor what word was used to describe the action of placing it there.
The courts must look at the law and in this case the crime is DISTURBING the manatee because in winter, it can be fatal.
Yet again, the first marine mammal expert I spoke with who was on scene, used this now controversial term. I don’t know if it was picked up by the media first or created by the media. What I can definitely say is that manatee doctors know the manatee did not simply act like a log. They have hairs all over their body and in winter, resting to conserve energy, any touch will cause a startle reaction. Sometimes a group reaction. They also know manatees have extremely strong skin and incredibly sophisticated immune systems USUALLY capable of fighting infections from deep cuts. Winter stresses manatees and the immune system .
Manatee doctors clearly stated the consensus that this manatee would most likely survive. A serious crime was committed and with $25,000 plus for rewards, the person or persons responsible will be brought before the courts. It will be the courts to decide what actions will be taken.
Opinions and political views are nice but we remain a nation of laws, of facts and in which, an agreed system of justice has been established.
Happy trails to you :thumb:
Captain Mark and his manatee crew

zamber 31-01-2021 16:41

Re: Feds Seek Info on Manatee Crime
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Manateeman (Post 3325597)
Manatee doctors clearly stated the consensus that this manatee would most likely survive. A serious crime was committed and with $25,000 plus for rewards,

Of course the manatee will "survive" all that happened was algae was rubbed off it. You are correct the person will be charged with a serious crime, not that the act was actually serious. Molesting sea mammals is against the law, the yellow journalists claimed with fake news that the (likely adolescent) CARVED the letters, which is animal cruelty.

Most likely the animal did not even notice it was being rubbed because if it did, it would moved around making it difficult to write the word neatly. There is cause for reasonable doubt because of the likelihood the animal did not feel bothered. Yes, I believe the judge will agree to a serious charge because the judges are biased. Destroying a (probably child's life) is not the right thing to do.

If someone writes "Clean Me" with his fingers on a dirty car, is that a horrible crime?

JPA Cate 31-01-2021 16:53

Re: Feds Seek Info on Manatee Crime
 
NO, but then, cars are not sentient beings.

Ann

Boatyarddog 31-01-2021 17:39

Re: Feds Seek Info on Manatee Crime
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by zamber (Post 3332970)
Of course the manatee will "survive" all that happened was algae was rubbed off it. You are correct the person will be charged with a serious crime, not that the act was actually serious. Molesting sea mammals is against the law, the yellow journalists claimed with fake news that the (likely adolescent) CARVED the letters, which is animal cruelty.

Most likely the animal did not even notice it was being rubbed because if it did, it would moved around making it difficult to write the word neatly. There is cause for reasonable doubt because of the likelihood the animal did not feel bothered. Yes, I believe the judge will agree to a serious charge because the judges are biased. Destroying a (probably child's life) is not the right thing to do.

If someone writes "Clean Me" with his fingers on a dirty car, is that a horrible crime?

Gosh, with all of the Rumored reports and uncertainty about the actual incident.
It could have been spray painted or was a miracle apparition projecting the Election Loser In 2020.:biggrin:
With the kind of reward money offered someone wants justice!
Good!
SV Cloud Duster

wingssail 31-01-2021 21:19

Re: Feds Seek Info on Manatee Crime
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by zamber (Post 3332970)
Of course the manatee will "survive" all that happened was algae was rubbed off it. You are correct the person will be charged with a serious crime, not that the act was actually serious. Molesting sea mammals is against the law, the yellow journalists claimed with fake news that the (likely adolescent) CARVED the letters, which is animal cruelty.

Most likely the animal did not even notice it was being rubbed because if it did, it would moved around making it difficult to write the word neatly. There is cause for reasonable doubt because of the likelihood the animal did not feel bothered. Yes, I believe the judge will agree to a serious charge because the judges are biased. Destroying a (probably child's life) is not the right thing to do.

If someone writes "Clean Me" with his fingers on a dirty car, is that a horrible crime?

Zamber you see quite intent on minimizing this incident. You say it was not a serious act, but that the perpetrator will be charged with a serious act only because judges are biased. You claim it was due to "yellow" journalism that the "fake news" claim was made (that the letters were carved when you think they were only rubbed). You speculate that it was an adolescent, a child, who did it (on what basis?)

Still, you have overlooked the actual evidence, the photograph which is shown in the news story here: https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article...-florida-crime

The letters are outlined, like scratched, not simply wiped, and the headline says scraped, and the story says "etched" but you object to the word "carved" (where). I don't see signs of yellow journalism, or any indication it was a childish prank.

What I do think it that you object too much, and it is probably out of defensiveness of the candidate whose name was put on the Manatee.

zamber 31-01-2021 23:36

Re: Feds Seek Info on Manatee Crime
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by wingssail (Post 3333067)
You claim it was due to "yellow" journalism that the "fake news" claim was made (that the letters were carved when you think they were only rubbed).

you object to the word "carved" (where). I don't see signs of yellow journalism, or any indication it was a childish prank.

The Daily Mail used "carved" and it was the Daily Mail that made the story big which implies a knife, thus animal cruelty. It looks more like fingers went along and wiped off the algae, see the lines. A manatee weights a 1000 pounds and can swim 20 mph, if it was in pain it would have bolted and it would of been impossible to write on it. It would of twisted around also.

A logical explanation is while the manatee was eating, a swimmer noticed the algae came off easy, and as it was eating someone thought it was funny write letters. If there was pain the animal would of viewed it as an attack and would of fled. What you are claiming is the animal was being stuck with sharp object did not flee. View the video below to see how fast manatees are. This is where "reasonable doubt" comes into play.

There is a law against touching manatees, so a law was broken. But it is not the horrible thing people were led to believe and emotionally invested themselves into.

The basis I said "probably" a child is that it was almost always an adolescent or teen that did things like this in the past.

Quote:

Florida manatee is found with 'TRUMP' carved into its back
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...rved-back.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyf2FmeeIR0

Boatyarddog 31-01-2021 23:41

Re: Feds Seek Info on Manatee Crime
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by zamber (Post 3333095)
The Daily Mail used "carved" and it was the Daily Mail that made the story big which implies a knife, thus animal cruelty. It looks more like fingers went along and wiped off the algae, see the lines. A manatee weights a 1000 pounds and can swim 20 mph, if it was in pain it would have bolted and it would of been impossible to write on it. It would of twisted around also.

A logical explanation is the manatee was eating, a swimmer noticed the algae came off easy, and as it was eating someone thought it was funny write letters. If there was pain the animal would of viewed it as an attack and would of fled. What you are claiming is the animal was being stuck with sharp object did not flee. View the video below to see how fast manatees are. This is where "reasonable doubt" comes into play.

There is a law against touching manatees, so a law was broken. But it is not the horrible thing people were led to believe and emotionally invested themselves into.

The basis I said "probably" a child is that it was almost always an adolescent or teen that did it.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyf2FmeeIR0

Fits the TRUMP Camp, spot on😁

Manateeman 01-02-2021 17:10

Re: Feds Seek Info on Manatee Crime
 
The courts will decide the punishment for this crime. The protection of manatees is clearly detailed in the language chosen in these laws. Disturbed. Harassment.
These words reflect the serious consequences of simply touching a manatee during winter when resting is their only defense against cold. Disturbing manatees can kill them.
It is immaterial what word was written. It is immaterial which words were chosen by the media. Courts permit both parties to examine jurors for prejudice and every effort is made to find true impartiality...indeed jurors swear to be so.
Continuing to dismiss truth by baseless statements does nothing in the eyes of the law. It attempts to discredit the system of justice and reinforces disdain for the law. Haven’t we all seen enough lately of criminal behavior from those who seek to challenge the legality of our laws and democratic process by violence ?
Let the system of justice determine who was responsible for this crime and let them alone determine the weight of punishment.
What I saw in the video was the huge expense of energy spent by the manatees in fleeing a threat. In summer, costly. In winter, potentially fatal.
I’m surprised the title was not “manatees attack paddle board people”.
Maybe it should be set to the baby shark song.
Happy trails to you.:thumb:
Captain Mark and his manatee crew singing “swim baby manatees, swim faster”:thumb:

Group9 02-02-2021 08:47

Re: Feds Seek Info on Manatee Crime
 
I will say that after living in south Florida, and watching how people run their boats there, I never quit being amazed that there were any manatees left at all.

AA3JY 12-03-2021 15:43

Re: Feds Seek Info on Manatee Crime
 
https://www.yahoo.com/news/manatee-graveyard-found-florida-algae-195924988.html


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