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-   -   Trying NOT to insult seller (https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f128/trying-not-to-insult-seller-237214.html)

Carl-T705 27-07-2020 21:41

Re: Trying NOT to insult seller
 
Five pages of how to buy a boat. I don't get it.. you buy a boat the same way you buy a chicken. The chicken is up for sale. You look at the chicken and ask how much you want for the chicken, the seller tells you what he wants, of course you say too much and offer a lower price, the seller says yes or no or counter offers, then you say yes or no. Then either you leave with the chicken or you don't . Why would how the seller "feels" be of any concern . It ain't like that chicken is the one you just got to have, if it is give the seller what he asks and you get the chicken.. why does it have to be more complicated? Why would a lesser offer insult the seller? Does a greater price insult the buyer??

JordanH 27-07-2020 22:45

Re: Trying NOT to insult seller
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl-T705 (Post 3195861)
I don't get it.. you buy a boat the same way you buy a chicken. The chicken is up for sale. You look at the chicken and ask how much you want for the chicken, the seller tells you what he wants, of course you say too much and offer a lower price, the seller says yes or no or counter offers, then you say yes or no. Then either you leave with the chicken or you don't .

Instead of a "chicken", use their "pet dog, who is their best friend." Then maybe you'll start to see.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl-T705 (Post 3195861)
Why would how the seller "feels" be of any concern .

You insult a man's dog, he won't be willing to sell him to you or at least won't be as willing to negotiate.


If you're walking into a car dealership, you probably could insult the sales guy all you like and he'll still sell you a car... because he wants your money.
But if you walked into a personal sale of a classic Corvette that the previous owner has rebuilt as a labour of love, and you low ball him, pointing out all the flaws, he likely won't want to sell it to you because you don't value it.


Boats are often emotional, not logical, sales.

Poche 27-07-2020 22:59

Re: Trying NOT to insult seller
 
They're things but I understand. That old rattletrap Austin Healy I had as a kid will always be remembered, loved and hated.

Captain Bligh 27-07-2020 23:17

Re: Trying NOT to insult seller
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by flyingfin (Post 3189768)
In todays economy, there are few Buyers and lots of Sellers. Worse yet, there are few banks willing to make loans so most Buyers must have their own funds, and hull loss insurance tough to get in some parts of the world without a 30% deductible. So the boat is only worth what a willing Buyer is offering,,,,,,,,,no 10% or 20% rule of thumb. And no NADA book or used boat lots to market as in the used auto market.



Really, at least in the USA, it is a sellers market. The boating industry has never seen such a massive boat buying frenzy.

Ruso 28-07-2020 00:14

Re: Trying NOT to insult seller
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl-T705 (Post 3195861)
Five pages of how to buy a boat. I don't get it.. you buy a boat the same way you buy a chicken. The chicken is up for sale. You look at the chicken and ask how much you want for the chicken, the seller tells you what he wants, of course you say too much and offer a lower price, the seller says yes or no or counter offers, then you say yes or no. Then either you leave with the chicken or you don't . Why would how the seller "feels" be of any concern . It ain't like that chicken is the one you just got to have, if it is give the seller what he asks and you get the chicken.. why does it have to be more complicated? Why would a lesser offer insult the seller? Does a greater price insult the buyer??

Right on Carl. I don't give rat fart on seller intimacy with his boat, nether I expect from him the same toward my intimacy with my hard earned money. If the seller willing negotiate - we work on the deal. If not, I am happy take my money somewhere else away from "drama" seller. I know for sure in the market segment I am watching is "buyer" market.

sailorphil9 28-07-2020 00:16

Re: Trying NOT to insult seller
 
Also important to remember that vendor is bearing ongoing costs for the boat, whether in a slip or on the hard, including insurance, keeping the vessel in good order for prospective sellers and so on.



Make the offer, he can only say no at worst - and that may not be the end of it. Then he'll think about and come back with 'well if you can stretch to $x then we can do a deal'. At best it's a yes. A 'maybe' is where most of the world deals.



It's a fair chunk of cash for him to have sitting there costing him upkeep. You've heard his reason for selling. That may be an exaggeration. Everything is negotiable, but try not to 'insult his pet dog'.

Tillsbury 28-07-2020 00:25

Re: Trying NOT to insult seller
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MicHughV (Post 3195456)
it's a tricky subject....I have placed an "offer" on a boat before....what I thought was a reasonable offer....and never heard back anything...not a peep.....pure silence....not even a " thanks, but no thanks"...

I've also been caught up in broker wars....when you have a broker representing the seller, and a broker, representing you, the prospective buyer...tough to negotiate your way thru' that morass...brokers wheel and deal between themselves, not always to your best interest...

There are many reasons you might not get a reply. I had to cancel the purchase of a boat because we were getting nowhere with some necessary repairs the seller had agreed to do. Turns out the old guy was selling the boat because he didn't use it. But the boat was managed by his son day to day, who sailed it with his friends every weekend. There was no incentive for the son to get the repairs done as that would be the end of his free boat.

mvweebles 28-07-2020 02:18

Re: Trying NOT to insult seller
 
First and foremost, the OP has an accepted offer that is at/close to asking. That is great news and I truly wish he and his family the best as they start this chapter of their journey. The seller felt he'd priced his property fairly and the OP agreed. I wish more transactions were like that. I bought a condo in Florida in 2012, more or less the bottom of the market. The seller had not budged on his asking price for 2 years despite the declining market and thus, in my opinion, well above market value. I eventually closed the deal with a 25% discount, and yes, pissed off the seller in the process. The irony is that had he reduced his asking price 5% or so, I think he would have gotten offers and closed at a final price at least 10% higher than I paid.

For the last 20 years I've been in a niche flavor of vendor management for large corporations. I negotiate contracts all the time. "No" is not the worst outcome. An acrimonious deal is a worse outcome. Buyers and sellers can easily be motivated to stop acting rationally even between corporations: I know of one multi-billion dollar deal that feel apart for a rounding error worth of money simply because one CEO had perceived a slight from the other.

In my opinion, anyone who does not manage emotions during a deal is unlikely to get the best possible outcome. Money is important, and is usually the most important, but it's seldom the only issue. Again, watch how the Pawn Stars' guy does a deal. Granted, he knows that someone who walks into a pawnshop needs money and has likely exhausted other sources, but he still does a good job of ensuring he's doesn't offend the seller. Even when the sellers expectations are too high.

MicHughV 28-07-2020 05:49

Re: Trying NOT to insult seller
 
Buying and selling is certainly an " art"......I have several friends in the retail business and often stop by to chat and it's always interesting to see them " deal" with a customer...you've either " got it" or you don't.

I belong to the " don't" category. I simply don't have that "smooth chatter" or personality that puts a prospective buyer at ease...chickens...dogs...cars....boats....it don't matter....what matters is the ability to communicate with a "stranger" customer, someone you don't know and have never met before...likewise a customer that has the "gift of the gab" is more likely to strike a happy deal than I ever could.

Statistical 28-07-2020 06:57

Re: Trying NOT to insult seller
 
In any transaction one party wants it more. The other party gets the better deal. No rational seller would be offended to the point of refusing to do business with an offer 10% or even 20% below listing. Is there a chance this seller will? Sure but it is low. If you can't bring yourself to do that then it likely means you want the boat more than he wants to sell it. Nothing wrong with that but it does mean the seller has the leverage.

You have to decide which is more important to you: a good deal or this exact boat right now.

Carl-T705 28-07-2020 07:05

Re: Trying NOT to insult seller
 
Every deal is different, when the seller is smooching up to me, my first reaction is, this smuck is trying to distract me from my main interest , the item. If it's a boat I don't care how much he enjoyed owning it .. I want to read about how he ran it aground and how extensive the damage was and who repaired it. New, used, or salvage , I spend more on the item than the good buddy discount we settled on. I don't even want to mention all the "restored" cars and motorcycles I've looked at that were piles of junk with a paint job attached. When I buy boats I get ones that need a lot of work... and I'm never disappointed with the previous owners "improvements, I just remove them and start over .

Poche 28-07-2020 07:08

Re: Trying NOT to insult seller
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl-T705 (Post 3196058)
I'm never disappointed with the previous owners "improvements, I just remove them and start over .

So true.

valhalla360 28-07-2020 09:48

Re: Trying NOT to insult seller
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dbraymer (Post 3195289)
Learned this the hard way. I was finishing up the purchase of a Skye 51 footer, the kaufman ladd design, world famous, big sister of the CT-47, and the deck was really coming apart, potato chipping like crazy, and as I walked on the deck, I said to the owner, "Well the deck is not getting any better by itself"

End of deal. Do not insult the owners baby. I might as well have said "your daughter is ugly"

Much better way to lower the price. "I wish I could afford to offer you a better price for your vessel. I am just in love with this boat, and I would take very good care of her, but this is all the money that I can get together"

trust me grasshopper

Not sure how world famous your boat is...

But yeah, don't get into flaws when initially negotiating. As someone else said, that's like calling his daughter ugly.

Set a price limit based on what you have in the budget and otherwise praise the boat. Even go so far as to apologize for it being less than he's asking.

Then when you have a deal and get the survey, you can talk about the wart on the end of his daughter's nose (be reasonable thought...if was an obvious issue when you made the offer, that's a little cheesy to argue over).

valhalla360 28-07-2020 09:52

Re: Trying NOT to insult seller
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by reflectionsv37 (Post 3195335)
Wait!! If you're interested in this boat the first thing you should do is hire a surveyor and have the boat thoroughly checked out by a professional. This can be an in the water survey and if the survey is acceptable, you can do a haul out and below the water check later. You don't need to make an offer to have the boat surveyed. If the seller won't agree to that, that should raise a red flag.

Absolutely not. A survey costs significant money and there is no guarantee the seller will accept your offer.

Heck, I probably wouldn't allow a survey if I was selling until there was an offer...that would be a huge red flag...unless I made a deal that he had to give me a copy of the survey even if he doesn't buy. A fresh survey can be a nice tool for selling as it documents all the issues so when the real survey is done, you can say they were fully aware of the issues.

Doubleplay 28-07-2020 12:04

Re: Trying NOT to insult seller
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Bligh (Post 3195892)
Really, at least in the USA, it is a sellers market. The boating industry has never seen such a massive boat buying frenzy.

I'm a US citizen and having been all over the World I've never seen a society who's clueless about how bad of a deal they are getting be it a boat or anything else. You know the saying "a sucker is born every minute". After all with all this free money most everybody here is in debt up to their ears and couple paychecks away from bankruptcy.


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