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-   -   Trying NOT to insult seller (https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f128/trying-not-to-insult-seller-237214.html)

zjames 20-07-2020 10:15

Re: Trying NOT to insult seller
 
Brad, you can always start low and go up. Going the other way doesn't work. Start lower than what you think he would accept. Everything is a negotiation. The whole time you are asking questions and discussing, in the seller's mind he was negotiating towards getting the top dollar he wants. notice I said wants. Boats are expensive to maintain and upgrade. Wouldn't you better off, instead of giving money away to the seller, you saved the money to really make the boat your? Food for thought..

dennismenace111 20-07-2020 10:23

Re: Trying NOT to insult seller
 
Id have no problem lowballing a seller! Once you give him a number, it will never go down! It can only go up! So if you offer 50% of tge asking price because of condition and equipment, the worst he will say is no thanks! You can always increase your offer! If he's a serious seller, he will negotiate!

JimsCAL 20-07-2020 10:35

Re: Trying NOT to insult seller
 
There is no such thing as a standard percent off asking price as a reasonable offer. Some boats are priced fairly and should go for close to asking. Others are overpriced and 10 or 20 percent off is still not enough. You have to some research and do your best to figure out what a fair price is and go from there.

roland stockham 20-07-2020 13:23

Re: Trying NOT to insult seller
 
The offer I put in on my current boat was 50% of the asking price. The owner wanted to sell and had no other offers. Offer what she is work to you and you can afford, they can only say no.

Group9 20-07-2020 13:26

Re: Trying NOT to insult seller
 
All you have to do, is get on any boat selling site, to see that there are a lot more people trying to sell boats, than trying to buy them.

Just keep that in mind when making offers.

markbarendt 20-07-2020 14:38

Re: Trying NOT to insult seller
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by flyingfin (Post 3189768)
In todays economy, there are few Buyers and lots of Sellers. Worse yet, there are few banks willing to make loans so most Buyers must have their own funds, and hull loss insurance tough to get in some parts of the world without a 30% deductible. So the boat is only worth what a willing Buyer is offering,,,,,,,,,no 10% or 20% rule of thumb. And no NADA book or used boat lots to market as in the used auto market.

Actually there are NADA value guides for at least the more common boats and options.

https://www.nadaguides.com/Boats

Interestingly the "average" NADA price correlates neatly to various numbers on the boats the wife and I have been looking at.

75% of average NADA value seems to be about what BoatUS will insure a boat for, which also seems to be a financing threshold to get 25% down from the buyer.

The listing prices on say Yachtworld seem to be surprisingly close to 10, 20, or some other cardinal percentage over the NADA average.

Seems to me, as a buyer, that the NADA average would be a fair baseline target for a final deal if it's adjusted for condition of the boat and any extras included, like a dinghy and ...

tomfl 20-07-2020 15:16

Re: Trying NOT to insult seller
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by markbarendt (Post 3190482)
Actually there are NADA value guides for at least the more common boats and options.

https://www.nadaguides.com/Boats

Interestingly the "average" NADA price correlates neatly to various numbers on the boats the wife and I have been looking at.

75% of average NADA value seems to be about what BoatUS will insure a boat for, which also seems to be a financing threshold to get 25% down from the buyer.

The listing prices on say Yachtworld seem to be surprisingly close to 10, 20, or some other cardinal percentage over the NADA average.

Seems to me, as a buyer, that the NADA average would be a fair baseline target for a final deal if it's adjusted for condition of the boat and any extras included, like a dinghy and ...

I have limited experience with NADA prices but for Corsair trimarans they seem to be way off, often less than 50% of what I see them advertised for on legit sites with ads for boats. Same for some other popular production multihulls. Not to mention NADA prices simply don't exist for a lot of sailboats.

Insurance companies will normally insure a boat for any reasonable amount. They are happy to insure a boat for less than it is worth. In fact my insurance company suggested I insure my boat for less than the survey value since few boats are a total loss so insuring for full value did not make sense.

I was looking at C31 tris and the NADA value was around $US50,000 but they were selling for more like $US100,000 for the year, condition, and extras of boats I was looking at. I spoke to a lender specializing in boats and an insurer and both agreed the 100k was more realistic than the 50K.

What the insurer told me was that for power boats made in great numbers the NADA values were useful but not so much for sailboats made in much smaller numbers.

Mike Banks 20-07-2020 15:29

Re: Trying NOT to insult seller
 
The deposit is usually ten percent because that is the brokerage fee--well in Australia it is, but some brokers may charge more, others less. In any case--that fee is covered by the asked deposit which is held in escrow in the brokers trust account until settlement. It is then retained from the proceeds of the sale, by the broker as commission...

Mike Banks 20-07-2020 15:39

Re: Trying NOT to insult seller
 
I would send the seller a general price I wished to pay and say "I know this is below the asking price you have advertised, but just keep me in mind, because I am looking for a vessel and I have this amount to pay and am unable to obtain any further finance--so just please hang on to my contact details and keep me in mind as a back-stop".

In a month or two reality intrudes--and a cash offer is always tempting, and you WERE polite, and your offer was not accompanied by rudeness or sarcasm, so you may even get it at a good price just to make sure none of the smart-arses and broker's agents get it------.

If you get a call, you can then inspect the vessel knowing a deal is possible.

Zzmeyer 20-07-2020 16:06

Re: Trying NOT to insult seller
 
And then there is the market at the time you are looking. In SoCal right now the market it hot. This week I put in two full price offers on boats that were rejected because they accepted a higher price.

markbarendt 20-07-2020 16:29

Re: Trying NOT to insult seller
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Zzmeyer (Post 3190540)
And then there is the market at the time you are looking. In SoCal right now the market it hot. This week I put in two full price offers on boats that were rejected because they accepted a higher price.

Yep,

The NADA numbers are, as I understand them, national averages. There are a variety of qualifiers that affect the local value.

Summer in So Cal is probably a high boat demand season, summer in the Caribbean is a different story and prices will naturally reflect the seasonal availability of buyers.

Several people I've spoken to also suggest that west coast boats probably sell for a bit more than east coast boats.

The averages remain true.

markbarendt 20-07-2020 16:46

Re: Trying NOT to insult seller
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by tomfl (Post 3190505)
I have limited experience with NADA prices but for Corsair trimarans they seem to be way off, often less than 50% of what I see them advertised for on legit sites with ads for boats. Same for some other popular production multihulls. Not to mention NADA prices simply don't exist for a lot of sailboats.

Insurance companies will normally insure a boat for any reasonable amount. They are happy to insure a boat for less than it is worth. In fact my insurance company suggested I insure my boat for less than the survey value since few boats are a total loss so insuring for full value did not make sense.

I was looking at C31 tris and the NADA value was around $US50,000 but they were selling for more like $US100,000 for the year, condition, and extras of boats I was looking at. I spoke to a lender specializing in boats and an insurer and both agreed the 100k was more realistic than the 50K.

What the insurer told me was that for power boats made in great numbers the NADA values were useful but not so much for sailboats made in much smaller numbers.

There is no doubt that the larger the sample size is, the better they can be used to predict what the market is willing to bear on a given model.

If for example there are one or two Corsair 31s sold in a year the average leaves everybody guessing a bit.

Conversely for any given Catalina or Beneteau or other production model under 40' the average might be much more reliable.

The NADA numbers are just a tool.

Flatswing 21-07-2020 02:33

Re: Trying NOT to insult seller
 
seems kinda complicated. Why not make a legit offer (subject to survey) offering what the boat is worth to you? From there you can negotiate or not.

introverted 21-07-2020 07:16

Re: Trying NOT to insult seller
 
never be concerned about the feelings of the other party when making an offer or counter offer.

smj 21-07-2020 07:37

Re: Trying NOT to insult seller
 
We’ve made some low offers on catamarans but they always included a reason for the low offer.
We purchased a partially completed catamaran about 5 years ago. We hired a shipwright for a couple of hours to go over the boat with us and give an idea of the cost to finish. I then did a ton of research to try to figure out the value of the cat once completed. I took this to the seller and offered less than half of his asking price. He agreed with the cost to complete as it came in close to his estimates. He also agreed to probable value after completion. It took him about a month to agree to the sale but we are still friends and talk occasionally.
So yes, you can make a low ball offer without caring if you insult the owner or you can take some time, do some research and come up with an offer based on an educated evaluation. At that point the seller can accept or refuse but will realize you took the time to make an honest offer and will probably appreciate that.


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