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-   -   Trying NOT to insult seller (https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f128/trying-not-to-insult-seller-237214.html)

Arthur Garfield 19-07-2020 13:43

Re: Trying NOT to insult seller
 
Things I consider and write down.
What's "market value"
I firstly ask myself-"what is my game plan for negotiation"
How does purchase further my goals & how important are details to me?
Do I have a backup plan that suites me goal?
Never make an "emotional" buy". Thats' always ended bad for me
I always make a "lowball" offer. This has often been successful or lead to a mutually agreeable deal.
Additionally, if a seller gets emotional to point of being insulted-I wouldn't deal.Walk
One never knows what situ seller is in,and if they're willing-be prepared to buy on the spot!
Always be prepared to "walk away"

smj 19-07-2020 13:50

Re: Trying NOT to insult seller
 
As someone above said, if your going to make a low offer have some facts to back it up.
I usually price to sell and if someone lowballs me with no reason then I walk. Lifes to short to deal with uneducated buyers.

Lake-Effect 19-07-2020 14:10

Re: Trying NOT to insult seller
 
As a seller, it would drive me nuts if someone presses me for a lower selling price, and I either accept it or propose a reasonable compromise price, and they bail.

So, personally speaking, I would never agree straight-up to a low offer; it would have to come with a commitment to purchase. So my response to a low-ball would be a set of conditions, eg I will accept an offer of $X if it comes with a 10% deposit delivered in the next 24 hours.

NorthernMac 19-07-2020 14:16

Re: Trying NOT to insult seller
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect (Post 3189713)
As a seller, it would drive me nuts if someone presses me for a lower selling price, and I either accept it or propose a reasonable compromise price, and they bail.

So, personally speaking, I would never agree straight-up to a low offer; it would have to come with a commitment to purchase. So my response to a low-ball would be a set of conditions, eg I will accept an offer of $X if it comes with a 10% deposit delivered in the next 24 hours.

That seems fair and standard

If someone agreed to terms I liked as a buyer, Id want to cement the deal ASAP too

mvweebles 19-07-2020 14:18

Re: Trying NOT to insult seller
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect (Post 3189713)
As a seller, it would drive me nuts if someone presses me for a lower selling price, and I either accept it or propose a reasonable compromise price, and they bail.

So, personally speaking, I would never agree straight-up to a low offer; it would have to come with a commitment to purchase. So my response to a low-ball would be a set of conditions, eg I will accept an offer of $X if it comes with a 10% deposit delivered in the next 24 hours.

I don't consider a 10% discount on a brokerage boat to be a low ball offer. Maybe some do, but for boats, seems very respectable. But I don't buy/sell many boats.

Zzmeyer 19-07-2020 14:57

Re: Trying NOT to insult seller
 
Just sold two boats (through a broker). Every offer I got included a 10% deposit. The broker is required to present all offers no matter how silly. Because of Covid I got a lot of silly offers, but I don't blame them trying. In every case I countered (much closer to my asking price). In those cases, they disappeared quickly and best I could tell never bought my model. In both cases I sold them for about 6% below original asking price. The broker was very helpful in determining asking price. He had a list of all the boats in the US and their asking price. He also had a list of identical or similar boats that had sold, their asking price and selling price. As I recall, most actually sold between 90 ad 95% of asking price. Bottom line for me was that it was fairly easy to come up with a reasonable asking price and a reasonable price to accept. There are those sellers who are just testing the market and therefore over price, just like there are those folks who will pass up on the boat of their dreams in order to "win" the cost game.

skipmac 19-07-2020 15:02

Re: Trying NOT to insult seller
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Davy J (Post 3189692)
Sorry to be a bit blunt...........

It seems we get one of these threads about trying to buy a 500K boat for 150K about once a week.


Well the OP didn't put it that way. He described the boat as fairly priced and wanted to offer 10% less than the ask. 150 for a 500k boat is more like 70% less.



Quote:

Originally Posted by Davy J (Post 3189692)
Anyway, I spent $10,000 on upgrades to my boat in the first seven days, the first seven days......

I'm afraid to add up the rest..........:peace:

Good luck on finding the right one.

And it does seem reasonable for the OP to plan on doing the same. Finding a boat at a really good price with everything on it and ready to go is about like winning the lottery. It does happen but it is pretty rare.

flyingfin 19-07-2020 15:09

Re: Trying NOT to insult seller
 
In todays economy, there are few Buyers and lots of Sellers. Worse yet, there are few banks willing to make loans so most Buyers must have their own funds, and hull loss insurance tough to get in some parts of the world without a 30% deductible. So the boat is only worth what a willing Buyer is offering,,,,,,,,,no 10% or 20% rule of thumb. And no NADA book or used boat lots to market as in the used auto market.

bclaypole 19-07-2020 15:24

Re: Trying NOT to insult seller
 
thank you to all the responded. This board is a great resource.
I settled on 12.5% below asking as my 1st offer. If I was to land at 6% off, I would be happy and hopefully the seller too. He has been more than accommodating with me being on the other side of the planet. The point about providing an immediate deposit was well taken and I put those terms in my offer. Fingers crossed!
Brad

tomfl 19-07-2020 15:24

Re: Trying NOT to insult seller
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bclaypole (Post 3189676)
Maybe $40,000 was an exaggeration - but what is missing, that I consider essential, are items like a life raft, a sea worthy dingy/motor and a good anchor (the one on the boat is undersized).

I fully get your point and appreciate your input.
Brad

While I have been on some commercial boats with a life raft I am not sure I have ever been on a private boat with a life raft and would not expect one to come with a boat I bought. Also have to point out all life rafts have a sell by date and need regular inspections and upgrades.

Lots of folks consider a dinghy as a consumable and while many boats do come with them often they are not in the best of shape.

One of my pet peeves is when someone talks about an anchor. My take is you should be talking about a ground tackle system. This includes an anchor, some way to connect an anchor to the chain, some way to connect the chain to a rode, a Sampson post to secure the rode, and a good knife (what ever I use a PVC cutter) to cut the rode in case of a disaster. I would also like a good gypsy on a good size windless, don't leave home without one. I also insist on a bridle (and solid cleats for the bridle) and snubber and a line and snatch hook to quickly secure the chain to the Sampson post. When upping the size of an anchor it is also important to make the track the anchor is in fits. Also have to have markers on the chain and line every ten feet (or a distance you like).

Thing is it is very easy to get any boat to move, wind and current will often do it alone. Problem is that this movement may not be in the direction you want so it is very important to be able to get the boat to stop moving and this is why I put such importance on ground tackle. It also has been my experience that good sailors understand the importance of ground tackle. If a boat owner has skimped on ground tackle, one of the most important things on a boat, my first question is where else have they skimped on things.

Not saying I would never buy a boat with inadequate ground tackle; just that it raises a great big red flag to me.

Tillsbury 19-07-2020 15:47

Re: Trying NOT to insult seller
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by tomfl (Post 3189781)
Not saying I would never buy a boat with inadequate ground tackle; just that it raises a great big red flag to me.

Yes indeed. In fact the opposite is also true -- one of the things that appealed to me about this boat was the enormous Rocna on the front (and associated gear to handle it). To be honest, it's sufficiently big that it doesn't quite fit aesthetically where it's supposed to, but that doesn't affect how it works.

To me, the anchor indicated something about the previous owner's attitude, and that reflects well on the rest of the boat.

barnakiel 19-07-2020 16:16

Re: Trying NOT to insult seller
 
Offer what you see the boat worth.


In my book offering 10% below asking is nowhere close to insulting.


Some sellers (e.g. Sweden, Norway, etc.) could simply say no, and keep on waiting.


Other sellers (Arabs) will be insulted if you DO NOT haggle.


My opinion: offering 10% below asking is fine in most Western cultures.



b.

sail sfbay 20-07-2020 09:24

Re: Trying NOT to insult seller
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bclaypole (Post 3189568)
.............Is offering a 10% discount off of purchase price ($400000 boat, $360000 offer conditional on survey but with an as-is condition on minor items found during the survey (up to $5000 repairs covered under as-is clause), insulting? Things over $5000 would require re-negotiation of offer.............

Not insulting in my experience AND you can request a "repair allowance" for repairs over a specified amount, in the amount you proposed, in the purchase contact that includes a sea trail and survey. Depending on the boat age you might also want to do standing rigging and engine surveys.

Group9 20-07-2020 09:41

Re: Trying NOT to insult seller
 
I've sold a lot of boats. Low balls don't bother me. I just say no thanks.

But, I understand why people do it. I have a really good friend, (who passed away a couple of years ago) who bought and sold boats for a living. And, I've seen him have a lot of "insulting" offers accepted.

I was with him one day, when he offered a doctor 50 per cent of what he was asking for his boat. The doctor huffed and puffed and said he was insulted, and my friend shrugged and said, "I'll pay you today. Cashier's check."

And, the doctor griped some more, and then said "Okay, I'll take it." I had to fight not to laugh. I couldn't do it. But, it didn't bother him a bit. :biggrin:

joelhemington 20-07-2020 09:59

Re: Trying NOT to insult seller
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bclaypole (Post 3189568)
Hi, I new to the boat buying game, however, I have found one that I want. Because the boat is on the other side of the world from me but located in the same country as my brother - he was able to do an inspection and take pics and video of everything for me. I am satisfied to make an offer conditional on a proper professional survey.
The boat is priced very reasonably and comes with almost all the extras needed. From what I've read on this forum a normal broker listed boat, has an almost expected 10-20% discount offer as the norm (yes, I may be off on this).

My question is: Is offering a 10% discount off of purchase price ($400000 boat, $360000 offer conditional on survey but with an as-is condition on minor items found during the survey (up to $5000 repairs covered under as-is clause), insulting? Things over $5000 would require re-negotiation of offer.

Last thing I want is the seller to tell me where to go but I also would like the $40000 to buy the items that are missing.

Your opinions please.

Brad

Unless this is some high end late model boat that already been steeply discounted then a 20% offer reduction seems to be the sweet spot. At 10%, it's likely the owner will be too giddy or drunk to even sign the offer acceptance. It really helps to know the market on the boat you're looking at when making an offer. Don't get your heart set on this boat until after it's been surveyed as you may be sadly disappointed. You mentioned $5,000 as your threshold for negotiation. That won't even replace the standing rigging on most boats in this price range. You also didn't mention where it's at or what it is and what you plan to do with it if you can't even get there at the moment.


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