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-   -   Trying NOT to insult seller (https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f128/trying-not-to-insult-seller-237214.html)

bclaypole 19-07-2020 10:15

Trying NOT to insult seller
 
Hi, I new to the boat buying game, however, I have found one that I want. Because the boat is on the other side of the world from me but located in the same country as my brother - he was able to do an inspection and take pics and video of everything for me. I am satisfied to make an offer conditional on a proper professional survey.
The boat is priced very reasonably and comes with almost all the extras needed. From what I've read on this forum a normal broker listed boat, has an almost expected 10-20% discount offer as the norm (yes, I may be off on this).

My question is: Is offering a 10% discount off of purchase price ($400000 boat, $360000 offer conditional on survey but with an as-is condition on minor items found during the survey (up to $5000 repairs covered under as-is clause), insulting? Things over $5000 would require re-negotiation of offer.

Last thing I want is the seller to tell me where to go but I also would like the $40000 to buy the items that are missing.

Your opinions please.

Brad

Bill O 19-07-2020 10:35

Re: Trying NOT to insult seller
 
Brad,
How long has the boat been on the market? If it's been sitting for a while you could go much lower than 10%. If this is something listed on YW/listed thru a broker, would even think 25-30% lower (IMO this is their jacked up price).
If you are dealing w/a broker it's a business deal nothing more except to get as much for their client as possible and also increase their commission.

If you have to deal w/the owner for the sale have you spoken to them to get a feel if this is an "emotional" sale or again simply a business transaction? Depending on the nationality of the seller, they expect to negotiate (maybe not US) and if its too low they will counter/not get insulted.

Also don't let them get wind that this is your dream boat and you absolutely need to buy it.

Cheechako 19-07-2020 10:40

Re: Trying NOT to insult seller
 
Yes, time on the market matters. But I dont think many sellers would be put off by a 10% less offer.

Calif.Ted 19-07-2020 10:41

Re: Trying NOT to insult seller
 
It's a negotiation, he can refuse or counter, hopefully without emotional involvement. I had a tentative agreement with a buyer and he asked if I would except a lower amount, wasn't insulted. I simply said "Nope, I have no reason to do that, it's already a good price for the market and it will sell quickly" he bought it. He sold it 3 years later for the same price he paid for it to get a bigger boat.

bclaypole 19-07-2020 10:50

Re: Trying NOT to insult seller
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill O (Post 3189575)
Brad,
How long has the boat been on the market? If it's been sitting for a while you could go much lower than 10%. If this is something listed on YW/listed thru a broker, would even think 25-30% lower (IMO this is their jacked up price).
If you are dealing w/a broker it's a business deal nothing more except to get as much for their client as possible and also increase their commission.

If you have to deal w/the owner for the sale have you spoken to them to get a feel if this is an "emotional" sale or again simply a business transaction? Depending on the nationality of the seller they expect to negotiate (maybe not US) and if its too low they will counter/not get insulted.

Also don't let them get wind that this is your dream boat and you absolutely need to buy it.

Thank you,
It was on the market for a couple of hours - and not through YW or other common listing agencies. Private seller. He's done with sailing and wants to move closer to his grand kids. He's not desperate to sell but missing out on those early moments would be difficult. You make a very good point about the country he lives in - very laid back and easy going, so I believe he would not be offended - even if the offer was too low for him.
I was very straight with him - its the model I wanted, but not the exact version I wanted (just can't find one).
Thanks again.
Brad

Lake-Effect 19-07-2020 10:51

Re: Trying NOT to insult seller
 
Negotiation is negotiation. You're free to offer as little or as much as you choose, they're free to accept, reject, or counter-offer.

As long as negotiation is polite, cordial, considerate, and there's no emotional fireworks from either side, a satisfactory outcome will be found... or it won't. Nobody owes either the buyer or seller a specific price.

Re extra equipment - the seller is offering what they choose to offer, not what you think it should be sold with, so base your offer just on what's for sale. You should have a separate budget in mind for what it will take to make any boat acceptable to you.

CarlF 19-07-2020 10:58

Re: Trying NOT to insult seller
 
While there’s always exceptions, most people with the money to own a fine yacht understand price negotiation.

And remember that most people buy boats that are much less expensive and in worse shape than the boat you are considering. With those boats, much bigger discounts are the norm.

When I sell a boat, I’m never “insulted” by a low offer but I also won’t waste my time going back and forth if the bids are too far apart to possibly get to a number I can live with.

My boats are fairly new and very well maintained but I still expect to come down a bit as part of the negotiation - because that is how the game is played - around 5%-10% (although I once sold a boat at asking).

So I am happy to get an offer at 80%-85% . If we end up “splitting the difference”, I’m at or above my 90% target. I certainly will counter.

For really well maintained boats, the survey doesn’t usually turn up much. I do get quite annoyed when a buyer tries to renegotiate the price on a boat that I’ve put a lot of sweat, love and money keeping in top shape. Only once has a surveyor found something significant - and I was embarrassed that I hadn’t noticed it and fixed it already. In that case I arranged and paid for the repair because I wanted to supervise the yard to make sure it was done right.

So I would just make the offer “subject to survey” rather than go into more detail that suggests you expect a problem from survey.

sailorboy1 19-07-2020 10:58

Re: Trying NOT to insult seller
 
On the other hand, sometimes the listing price is already a good price.

ol1970 19-07-2020 11:06

Re: Trying NOT to insult seller
 
No offer is offensive in my opinion, certainly not one that is 90% of his asking price. Geez if someone is that sensitive I couldn’t imagine them handing the stress of boat ownership!

Davy J 19-07-2020 11:24

Re: Trying NOT to insult seller
 
Quote:

Last thing I want is the seller to tell me where to go but I also would like the $40000 to buy the items that are missing.
Whoa...... You are thinking of buying a boat that has $40,000.00 worth of parts missing??????

What's missing? Sails? Motor? Interior cushions?

Or, is it just items you want or think you need? If the latter, the seller doesn't need to discount the boat for your wants....... You will need to add those items at your own expense.

bclaypole 19-07-2020 12:54

Re: Trying NOT to insult seller
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Davy J (Post 3189614)
Whoa...... You are thinking of buying a boat that has $40,000.00 worth of parts missing??????

What's missing? Sails? Motor? Interior cushions?

Or, is it just items you want or think you need? If the latter, the seller doesn't need to discount the boat for your wants....... You will need to add those items at your own expense.

Maybe $40,000 was an exaggeration - but what is missing, that I consider essential, are items like a life raft, a sea worthy dingy/motor and a good anchor (the one on the boat is undersized).

I fully get your point and appreciate your input.
Brad

skipmac 19-07-2020 13:22

Re: Trying NOT to insult seller
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sailorboy1 (Post 3189594)
On the other hand, sometimes the listing price is already a good price.

Exactly.

Saying the asking price for a boat is 10-20% over what the seller would take is a very, very rough rule of thumb and like any rule of thumb is only a very rough guideline.

If the boat is already priced favorably then the seller might be firm or at least not very negotiable on the price. Or he could be very well off and happy to discount the price to a buyer he likes. Or none of the above.

Regardless, I do agree that offering 10% below his ask should not annoy or insult him.

Davy J 19-07-2020 13:25

Re: Trying NOT to insult seller
 
Quote:

I fully get your point and appreciate your input.
Brad
Sorry to be a bit blunt...........

It seems we get one of these threads about trying to buy a 500K boat for 150K about once a week.

Anyway, I spent $10,000 on upgrades to my boat in the first seven days, the first seven days......

I'm afraid to add up the rest..........:peace:

Good luck on finding the right one.

mvweebles 19-07-2020 13:34

Re: Trying NOT to insult seller
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bclaypole (Post 3189568)
Hi, I new to the boat buying game, however, I have found one that I want. Because the boat is on the other side of the world from me but located in the same country as my brother - he was able to do an inspection and take pics and video of everything for me. I am satisfied to make an offer conditional on a proper professional survey.
The boat is priced very reasonably and comes with almost all the extras needed. From what I've read on this forum a normal broker listed boat, has an almost expected 10-20% discount offer as the norm (yes, I may be off on this).

My question is: Is offering a 10% discount off of purchase price ($400000 boat, $360000 offer conditional on survey but with an as-is condition on minor items found during the survey (up to $5000 repairs covered under as-is clause), insulting? Things over $5000 would require re-negotiation of offer.

Last thing I want is the seller to tell me where to go but I also would like the $40000 to buy the items that are missing.

Your opinions please.

Brad

10% discount won't offend anyone. But it will most likely be countered so you may end up closer to 5% so make sure you're okay with the ending spot, not just your first offer.

Best way to let a seller know you aren't going to be a jerk is to spend time with them or their broker. You can put it in the agreement but it may not sound the way you mean it so its likely better in person.

There are indeed a ton of threads on offer/purchase strategy. Many folks like bully offers where they believe they as buyer have upper hand and like to exert their positions. You have to decide what's a good fit for you. I've owned my boat for 22 years so I'm not a good judge, though I've consulted on a few sales for folks who are new to buying. I find that you get more with honey than vinegar. Most folks want to feel good about a transaction. Explaining am offer is usually a much more effective strategy than just presenting a stupid number. Watch Pawn Stars and although it's scripted, you'll get an idea of how to Strike a good deal

Good luck. Halfway around the world is a loooong way to sail home.

Peter

NorthernMac 19-07-2020 13:36

Re: Trying NOT to insult seller
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bclaypole (Post 3189568)
Hi, I new to the boat buying game, however, I have found one that I want. Because the boat is on the other side of the world from me but located in the same country as my brother - he was able to do an inspection and take pics and video of everything for me. I am satisfied to make an offer conditional on a proper professional survey.
The boat is priced very reasonably and comes with almost all the extras needed. From what I've read on this forum a normal broker listed boat, has an almost expected 10-20% discount offer as the norm (yes, I may be off on this).

My question is: Is offering a 10% discount off of purchase price ($400000 boat, $360000 offer conditional on survey but with an as-is condition on minor items found during the survey (up to $5000 repairs covered under as-is clause), insulting? Things over $5000 would require re-negotiation of offer.

Last thing I want is the seller to tell me where to go but I also would like the $40000 to buy the items that are missing.

Your opinions please.

Brad


As someone who was pretty good at sales as a kid, ask yourself if this is business or are you trying to date the man?

Just depends on how you phrase it, always smile and use a cheerful or understanding tone, I’d probably but him south of the number you want, say something about your budget or wife says or better yet financial changes post corona virus, or whatever, if it helps soften the blow, hit him low, peel him off the roof and settle on a number closer to your target, I would make a hard limit however, it helps to know where your goal post is as well as your brick wall.

Remember way more people probably want your money than his sailboat.


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