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-   -   Is a fuel primer bulb legit? (https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f54/is-a-fuel-primer-bulb-legit-233630.html)

GordMay 01-05-2020 02:15

Re: Is a fuel primer bulb legit?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Argyle38 (Post 3129412)
Not approved by whom? ABYC? Just curious. Never heard of any regulations about it...

SAE & ISO

The U.S. Coast Guard addresses fuel line requirements in the code of federal regulations (CFR) that applies to recreational boats: CFR Title 33, Type A1-15.
Ratings & approvals are primarily determined on two factors, permeability and fire resistance. Particularly with volatile gasoline, permeability is a concern due to vapor build up. If it is in an enclosed space "below deck" (Type A) it must not give off explosive vapors. Manufacturers often refer to hose as "above deck"/"topside" (B) or "below deck" (A) hose, which is simply a way of phrasing the permeability rating.
SAE J1527 & ISO Type A1 are a couple fuel line of Standards
The North American rating system for marine hose is known as SAE J1527 and it provides for grades as follows:
A1-fuel feed hose; has a fire resistant cover; is designed to have fuel in the hose at all times. Least permeable with highest fire resistance.
A2-fuel vent hose; has a fire resistant cover; is not designed to have fuel in the hose at all times.
B1-fuel feed hose; without fire resistant cover; is designed to have fuel in the hose at all times; intended for non-enclosed spaces. Diesel engines or above deck outboard gasoline applications.
B2-fuel vent hose; without fire resistant cover; is not designed to have fuel in the hose at all times. Diesel vent lines.

Maine Sail 01-05-2020 03:38

Re: Is a fuel primer bulb legit?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Cate (Post 3129343)
As one who has used a bulb below decks for many years without softening, bursting or other problems, I can't agree with your worries relative to function. Approval is a different matter, one which is of greater importance to some folks than others.

Jim


I hear you but try to explain that to guy who owned the fuel bulb below. He wound up selling his boat due to lingering diesel smells that no-one could get rid of, not even Service Master. It allowed nearly 75 gallons of fuel to drain into the bilge.

I don't know of any primer bulbs actually rated for below deck use, because they don't pass the fire test ratings for below deck use. If you must use one isolate it with valves and mount it well above the fuel tank so it can't siphon if it fails.. Use these below deck at your own risk..

https://pbase.com/mainecruising/image/145237549.jpg

GordMay 01-05-2020 04:16

Re: Is a fuel primer bulb legit?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Maine Sail (Post 3129547)
I hear you but try to explain that to guy who owned the fuel bulb below. He wound up selling his boat due to lingering diesel smells that no-one could get rid of, not even Service Master. It allowed nearly 75 gallons of fuel to drain into the bilge.

I don't know of any primer bulbs actually rated for below deck use, because they don't pass the fire test ratings for below deck use. If you must use one isolate it with valves and mount it well above the fuel tank so it can't siphon if it fails.. Use these below deck at your own risk..

https://pbase.com/mainecruising/image/145237549.jpg

Indeed.
https://www.sbmar.com/wp-content/upl...eze-Bulb_1.gif

FAST FRED 01-05-2020 04:27

Re: Is a fuel primer bulb legit?
 
"I have one in my system, although it is isolated from the primary fuel line path via ball-valves. I can flip the valves and use it to help bleed if needed, then close off the valves, isolating it from the main fuel line path. Makes bleeding easy."


Sounds like the perfect solution for the belt and suspenders folks.

Midnight Son 01-05-2020 04:32

Re: Is a fuel primer bulb legit?
 
Save the grief, plumb in a Facet fuel pump and problem solved, just pick one of the 'rated' ones. No need to get in a lather.:peace:
Cheers all, stay safe

weavis 01-05-2020 04:34

Re: Is a fuel primer bulb legit?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete7 (Post 3129195)
Standard fit on lots of Peugeot diesel cars in the 1990-2000s and made it easy to bleed the fuel system after changing the fuel filter.

Pete

yeah. I found the car leaked when I used it as an outboard on my fishing boat. The bulb was fine though.. :smile:

a64pilot 01-05-2020 05:24

Re: Is a fuel primer bulb legit?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sojourner (Post 3129500)
After nearly burning our boat down when the electric add-on priming pump decided to catch fire offshore (good times), I swapped it for a bulb. It's great. Not quite as simple as turning a key to prime, but almost, and pretty fool proof.

That would be an extremely rare occurrence, odds of that happening are vanishingly small, happening twice?
To illustrate it, all automobiles that I know of are fuel injected, at lest the ones made in the last 30 or more years anyway, and as such that all have electric fuel pumps, vast majority of these pumps are actually located in the fuel tank.
I have never heard of a failure, which almost certainly would be an explosion and almost instantaneous SERIOUS fire

phorvati 01-05-2020 05:25

Re: Is a fuel primer bulb legit?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Maine Sail (Post 3129547)
I hear you but try to explain that to guy who owned the fuel bulb below. He wound up selling his boat due to lingering diesel smells that no-one could get rid of, not even Service Master. It allowed nearly 75 gallons of fuel to drain into the bilge.

I don't know of any primer bulbs actually rated for below deck use, because they don't pass the fire test ratings for below deck use. If you must use one isolate it with valves and mount it well above the fuel tank so it can't siphon if it fails.. Use these below deck at your own risk..

https://pbase.com/mainecruising/image/145237549.jpg

If you are going to go through the trouble of putting a picture like that, at least explain how that cut occurred. That looks like a knife cut. Di that burst under pressure? on an negative pressure line? Could you please elaborate on a scenario where a prudent owner would let a cut like that dump 75gal into the bilge. Over what time frame? Under what circumstances?

Pete7 01-05-2020 05:31

Re: Is a fuel primer bulb legit?
 
Given the number of these things being used for outboard tanks to engines the world over, in all sorts of conditions, is there really a problem? carry a spare and swop it out after a few years if there is a real concern.

You might buy a decent quality one though, rather than el cheapo from some auction site.

DirtRdEarl 01-05-2020 05:32

Re: Is a fuel primer bulb legit?
 
There are those who believe and those who don’t. Personally I use an electric fuel pump for priming the system.

a64pilot 01-05-2020 05:36

Re: Is a fuel primer bulb legit?
 
I can tell you, it’s not a cut, it’s a spilt, it softened over time. Maybe from the fuel or maybe from fuel additives even.
But back to it doesn’t meet the flame resistance requirements and please don’t tell me Diesel fuel doesn’t burn, it’s the same reason you don’t go to Autozone and buy fuel hose, or use automotive fuel filters, because they don’t meet requirements if your a US boat, it’s the law.
I don’t use house wire in my boat either, but I have seen a whole lot of it, and you can argue it works and since it saves a lot of money why not, but I won’t.

I have never seen a fuel bulb rated for Diesel, I assume some may exist but never seen one.

Maine Sail 01-05-2020 05:44

Re: Is a fuel primer bulb legit?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by phorvati (Post 3129624)
If you are going to go through the trouble of putting a picture like that, at least explain how that cut occurred. That looks like a knife cut. Di that burst under pressure? on an negative pressure line? Could you please elaborate on a scenario where a prudent owner would let a cut like that dump 75gal into the bilge. Over what time frame? Under what circumstances?


It just split. He had changed the fuel filters a few days before he noticed the diesel leak and smell. The split was facing away from him, split side towards a bulkhead, and this probably why he never saw it when it happened.. Bulb was pretty hard on the outside but a bit gummy on the inside so I suspect it split while squeezing it, but it took some time for the small split to drain the tank.

Argyle38 01-05-2020 07:08

Re: Is a fuel primer bulb legit?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by GordMay (Post 3129523)
SAE & ISO

The U.S. Coast Guard addresses fuel line requirements in the code of federal regulations (CFR) that applies to recreational boats: CFR Title 33, Type A1-15.
Ratings & approvals are primarily determined on two factors, permeability and fire resistance. Particularly with volatile gasoline, permeability is a concern due to vapor build up. If it is in an enclosed space "below deck" (Type A) it must not give off explosive vapors. Manufacturers often refer to hose as "above deck"/"topside" (B) or "below deck" (A) hose, which is simply a way of phrasing the permeability rating.
SAE J1527 & ISO Type A1 are a couple fuel line of Standards
The North American rating system for marine hose is known as SAE J1527 and it provides for grades as follows:
A1-fuel feed hose; has a fire resistant cover; is designed to have fuel in the hose at all times. Least permeable with highest fire resistance.
A2-fuel vent hose; has a fire resistant cover; is not designed to have fuel in the hose at all times.
B1-fuel feed hose; without fire resistant cover; is designed to have fuel in the hose at all times; intended for non-enclosed spaces. Diesel engines or above deck outboard gasoline applications.
B2-fuel vent hose; without fire resistant cover; is not designed to have fuel in the hose at all times. Diesel vent lines.

Thanks. Of course that makes perfect sense. If the fuel line hose has to be certified, then certainly the bulb primer has to be as well, and to the same specifications, if it is part of the circuit.

I thought about that after I posted. It turns out I isolated my primer bulb because I was getting air in the line and thought the bulb might be the culprit (it wasn't, the problem was a faulty lift pump). Seems like I more or less brought my boat back in to spec inadvertently.

I think having a primer bulb is very helpful when you need to bleed the system, but you should definitely isolate it so it's not a liability when not in use.

Zoidislander 01-05-2020 11:02

Re: Is a fuel primer bulb legit?
 
The split bulb in the photo looks exactly like the one I purchased from Harbor Freight. I was attempting to make a device to transfer small amounts of fuel. Worked great for a while, and then it didn't. The bulb body split, the internal check ball dissolved, and the inside surface was sticky. And yes it was advertised for fuel (gasoline, and diesel use) on the actual product packaging. I didn't return it for credit, as it would have meant a two hour drive each way. I however reported the incident by telephone to the store. It was replaced by a similar item from Sierra, which is still working.

doog 01-05-2020 11:37

Re: Is a fuel primer bulb legit?
 
The deterioration of these bulbs is most likely from sun which cracks/shrinks any plastic or rubber. And diesel is far less corrosive than gas so if its good for gasoline..diesel is not going to hurt it..

There will always be purists opposing anything not made and sold either by them or their personal friends. The Capt Ron school of do what works is the real final word..Tons of regulations against great stuff, and there is totally approved material which will melt and soften and fail in many conditions. You dont want the list!


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