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CassidyNZ 13-04-2020 13:49

Re: Flex Plate Failure
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by a64pilot (Post 3115655)
Maybe, I figure worst case Iíll have to remove the engine mount bolts and slide the engine forward, I didnít know it was only a couple of inches required, I figured you would need at least six to get the shaft to clear the bell housing.
I assume transmission comes first then the bell housing and that they arenít removed as a unit?

Unfortunately on these engines, the bell housing forms part of the back of the engine and also provides part of the surface onto which the sump bolts. So the sump has to come off as well as the bell housing. Whilst it is possible to get the bell housing off without removing the sump, getting it back on is really difficult because of the sump gasket sitting on the bottom face of the bell housing.

Iím having trouble describing this accurately but I have done this job and tried unsuccessfully to ďpatchĒ in a piece of sump gasket, resulted in a bad oil leak. Not easy to get it right.

CassidyNZ 13-04-2020 13:59

Re: Flex Plate Failure
 
1 Attachment(s)
This is my bell housing picture from another thread. The gasket face is up against the engine. The red arrows are pointing at the face that makes up part of the sump gasket mounting surface. The green arrows point to the spot where the bell housing gasket and the sump gasket share a joint.

Getting these gaskets to play nice without removing the sump is really quite hard because the bell housing goes on with two locating dowels and has to be slid on horizontally thus dragging the sump gasket along with it.

Hope this makes sense,

Edit: And you’re correct, the transmission is removed before the bell housing. Working with the bellhousing while the transmission is still attached would be nigh impossible.

CassidyNZ 14-04-2020 12:52

Re: Flex Plate Failure
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by CassidyNZ (Post 3116128)
Unfortunately on these engines, the bell housing forms part of the back of the engine and also provides part of the surface onto which the sump bolts. So the sump has to come off as well as the bell housing. Whilst it is possible to get the bell housing off without removing the sump, getting it back on is really difficult because of the sump gasket sitting on the bottom face of the bell housing.

Iím having trouble describing this accurately but I have done this job and tried unsuccessfully to ďpatchĒ in a piece of sump gasket, resulted in a bad oil leak. Not easy to get it right.

Edit: this is not correct, just realised, Iím one step further into the engine than you need to be. Apologies.

a64pilot 16-04-2020 09:41

Re: Flex Plate Failure
 
No problem
So the sump doesn’t need to come off to remove the bell housing?

a64pilot 16-04-2020 09:47

Re: Flex Plate Failure
 
Anyway an update to what I feel pretty certain my problem is, cause I hate it when people don’t come back and let us know what the problem turned out to be.
It’s the prop, 99% sure of it. We are back in Lake Worth now and the prop made it. In fact it doesn’t rattle in idle either, but then I don’t idle in gear now, cause why push it.
It’s beyond overhaul apparently, but I swear at mid RPM, 1500 it doesn’t vibrate or make any noise, at 1800 it does rumble, but you have to put your ear to the hull to hear it.

Apparently 8kts plus and an engine speed of 1200 put so much pitch into the prop that with its worn bearings that allowed or made it make a rattle noise.

I don’t believe it’s the drive plate as the noise has disappeared, and I don’t think a plate would do that.

rbk 16-04-2020 10:08

Re: Flex Plate Failure
 
:thumb: thanks for the follow up. Good to hear you made it.

CassidyNZ 16-04-2020 13:34

Re: Flex Plate Failure
 
Well, that’s surely a whole lot less work. Good news. Although a new prop is probably a little more costly than a new flex plate.
:smile:

Oh, and no, the sump doesn’t come off to remove the bell housing. The bit that is influenced by the sump is the flywheel housing onto which the bellhousing faces.

Davo1404 16-04-2020 13:58

Re: Flex Plate Failure
 
Good news. More expensive, but an easier job

a64pilot 16-04-2020 13:59

Re: Flex Plate Failure
 
It only needs an overhaul. But being an Autoprop I believe the bits to do so cost more than say a new Campbell Sailor, which will never wear out, so I’ll be doing some thinking.

Frankly 16-04-2020 14:56

Re: Flex Plate Failure
 
I had a Campbell Sailor on my previous sailboat (Hunter 30). A good replacement for the factory 2 blade but not close to an AP.

New bearings on my old water lubed AP less than $300 and not hard to change. If the races need remachining then about a grand with two way shipping back to the factory.

IMO the AP is a good marriage to an IP rocketship. Good motoring, good sailing, and great motorsailing.

Glad you made it back with all your piece parts.


Frankly

CassidyNZ 16-04-2020 15:46

Re: Flex Plate Failure
 
Is that a suggestion that you don’t perceive much benefit from a folding-feathering prop? The Campbell Sailor props appear to have a much narrower blade but greater pitch which as they claim, reduces drag and propwalk without creating too much drag or reducing efficiency.

Could well be a reasonable substitute for saving some cash?

a64pilot 16-04-2020 16:35

Re: Flex Plate Failure
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Frankly (Post 3118395)
I had a Campbell Sailor on my previous sailboat (Hunter 30). A good replacement for the factory 2 blade but not close to an AP.

New bearings on my old water lubed AP less than $300 and not hard to change. If the races need remachining then about a grand with two way shipping back to the factory.

IMO the AP is a good marriage to an IP rocketship. Good motoring, good sailing, and great motorsailing.

Glad you made it back with all your piece parts.


Frankly

It was just a thought, I have not checked but the friend I was traveling with, it cost him $900 for the parts to overhaul his three blade Autoprop this year, he was in Grenada.
These are the greased props and while Iíve not had mine apart, Iím nearly certain that all wear items, races etc are changed.
Yes itís a good prop, mine has always had a vibration issue above 2000 RPM that is unsolvable, Iím certain itís the interrupted water flow off of the dead wood, cause if you tie it to a dock its smooth as glass all the way to WOT.
I went through all kinds of data gathering etc and sent to Geoff when I first bought it, to no avail, but to be honest I think itís the boat design, and not anything to do with the prop.
Still, if itís $900 for a handful of bearings, that has me thinking maybe spend a whole lot less for a Campbell Sailor.

My boat came with an 18X14 three blade from IP according to the published specs. My boat when I bought it had a prop on it stamped 18X14, but would only turn 2300 RPM at WOT, but did run 8 kts. Still severely over propped.
So did IP overprop it? Or did one of the POís have the prop re-pitched and the prop shop didnít restamp it?

a64pilot 16-04-2020 16:42

Re: Flex Plate Failure
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by CassidyNZ (Post 3118433)
Is that a suggestion that you don’t perceive much benefit from a folding-feathering prop? The Campbell Sailor props appear to have a much narrower blade but greater pitch which as they claim, reduces drag and propwalk without creating too much drag or reducing efficiency.

Could well be a reasonable substitute for saving some cash?


Well the Autoprop actually does everything it says it does, it’s brilliant for motor sailing, I really can be sailing say in 10 kts of wind and making 4 kts. Crank the engine, turn 1200 RPM or so, it’s very quiet, I’m charging batteries and heating water for the afternoon shower and 1200 is very quiet and smooth and not loud either, and I’m burning 1/2 GPH.
However my speed goes from 4 kts to 7+ kts. and over 7 kts in 10 kts of wind ain’t bad.
The Autoprop will “shift gears” if you will so that the engine maintains the same load regardless of boat speed. A normal prop at 4 kts sailing you probably have to turn 1000 RPM or so to just be spinning the prop to produce pretty much zero thrust, and you would have to turn over 1500 to get to 7 kts motor sailing, and the difference in over 1500 as far as noise is concerned is significant.

Still, $900 every thousand hours or so isn’t an insignificant amount of money

Frankly 16-04-2020 18:25

Re: Flex Plate Failure
 
In 15 years I have rebuilt (changed bearings) mine 2 times, back to the factory once for race remachining (U can only do that one time). I found out early that when I have vibration problems new motor mounts have always solved the issue. Think I am on my 3rd set of mounts. Last time I tried stiffer rear mounts (good so far).

The Campbell Sailor uses a high lift blade design and there by reduces the blade area. Lowers the sailing drag but not much difference in motoring. Good if you decide to turn your operation into a log chipper. Those blades have a thick profile.

Thinking about new bearings. Not sure but AB Marine may no longer be US distributor and Brunton website indicates might be able to buy bearings direct less than $200. Going to pull the prop for paint in a couple of weeks.


Frankly

Bill O 17-04-2020 06:19

Re: Flex Plate Failure
 
A64,
Glad to hear you made it back in one piece and it wasn't your flex plate after all.
Did you have enough wind to sail a significant amount or was it the motorsail as you suspected it would be?


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