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-   -   440: Anchor Chain Size and Anchor Size - Lagoon 440 (https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f139/anchor-chain-size-and-anchor-size-lagoon-440-a-227407.html)

UFO 06-12-2019 04:54

Anchor Chain Size and Anchor Size - Lagoon 440
 
I currently have 40m of 1/2inch chain and a 60LB Manson Supreme.


I am looking to increase the amount of chain to 100m, but with current chain size that is a LOT of Weight.



This is not a question about what length or if it should be chain/rode, so please don't go there.



My local chandler has told me for my size boat Standard L 10MM anchor chain will be fine, but to go up to the 80LB Manson Supreme.


What are those who know better than me thoughts on this advice, bearing in mind that it is a cat and is a very sensitive boat :) (to weight)

boom23 06-12-2019 08:33

Re: Anchor Chain Size and Anchor Size - Lagoon 440
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by UFO (Post 3030314)
I currently have 40m of 1/2inch chain and a 60LB Manson Supreme.


I am looking to increase the amount of chain to 100m, but with current chain size that is a LOT of Weight.



This is not a question about what length or if it should be chain/rode, so please don't go there.



My local chandler has told me for my size boat Standard L 10MM anchor chain will be fine, but to go up to the 80LB Manson Supreme.


What are those who know better than me thoughts on this advice, bearing in mind that it is a cat and is a very sensitive boat :) (to weight)

I agree with your Chandler. Get 10mm High Test chain and 80lb (or bigger) Ultra, Rocna or Manson, Rocna.

On my Amel 50, I have 100m of HT 10mm chain and 100lb Ultra. So far so good...

tkeithlu 06-12-2019 09:14

Re: Anchor Chain Size and Anchor Size - Lagoon 440
 
Let's see, basically agreeing with Boom above. Your current rode is too short, but 80 meters should be enough, not 100. Your curent chain is too heavy (12.5 mm with a recommended 10 mm), and your anchor is (apparently, not my strength) too light. I think this is called an unbalanced system. So, start over, keeping track of your weight allowance, given your longitudinally sensitive boat. Weight of 80# Manson (80#?) plus weight per meter (we're getting units thoroughly mixed here) of the really good 10mm chain, gives you how much rode? 80m and you're fine, more if it fits your weight allowance. Happy anchor system. Good luck with it.

UFO 06-12-2019 21:45

Re: Anchor Chain Size and Anchor Size - Lagoon 440
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by boom23 (Post 3030399)
I agree with your Chandler. Get 10mm High Test chain and 80lb (or bigger) Ultra, Rocna or Manson, Rocna.

On my Amel 50, I have 100m of HT 10mm chain and 100lb Ultra. So far so good...


So you don't think standard 10MM is strong enough? So by HT do you mean the G70?

boom23 07-12-2019 04:53

Re: Anchor Chain Size and Anchor Size - Lagoon 440
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by UFO (Post 3030876)
So you don't think standard 10MM is strong enough? So by HT do you mean the G70?

There have been discussions in other threads regarding chain. I do remember something about the G70 being too brittle, but I may be wrong.

I have G43 chain. My boat is heavier than yours, but you have more windage. If you look at the WLL table below, you'll see that the 10mm (3/8in) G43 chain has higher WLL than the 12mm (1/2in) BBB/Proof-Coil chain, which is what you probably have. If you switch chain type, you'll have to change your windlass gypsy and recalibrate the chain counter. Both are easy to do.

https://www.1st-chainsupply.com/WLLchart.htm

boom23 07-12-2019 05:52

Re: Anchor Chain Size and Anchor Size - Lagoon 440
 
Apparently, G70 chain has corrosion issues also, which makes it problematic as anchor chain. I would use G43 chain.

Lots of info in cruisersforum...

Caliber40 07-12-2019 15:21

Re: Anchor Chain Size and Anchor Size - Lagoon 440
 
Nobody is asking where you plan to sail. IMHO 80% of anchoring is in 20-30 feet of water....am I wrong?

Bean Counter 07-12-2019 16:29

Re: Anchor Chain Size and Anchor Size - Lagoon 440
 
You may find the gypsy on your windlass will not take 10mm chain, you will have to get a new one - that won't be cheap. Look at the Rocna knowledge base (I am sure the other manufacturers have similar) and for a Lagoon 440 I think recommended anchor is 40kg on 7/16" (11mm) G43 chain. (This being the next size up recommended for a mono of same length and weight) The Quick Dylan gypsy will take 7/16 USA chain and 12-13mm euro chain.
(bridle chain hook may need to change too)




https://rocna.com/fitment-guide/

billknny 07-12-2019 18:03

Re: Anchor Chain Size and Anchor Size - Lagoon 440
 
I'll double down on the recommendations you already have gotten.

Your 1/2" chain is overkill. I assume it is BBB? If so you can drop to 10MM (or 3/8") G4 and lose nothing in strength. G70 is not needed unless you wanted to go even smaller.

Your anchor is also seriously too small for a cruising anchor on a cat the size of yours. Lose the weight on the chain, and bump up the weight on the anchor where it really counts. If I was you, I would go with a MINIMUM 40 kg Rocna, or even better a 105lb Mantus.

The amount of chain to carry really depends on your cruising grounds. For someone sailing between florida and the bahamas, they might never need more than 30m. For someone in the remote islands in the south pacific, they might feel 100m to be on the short side.

UFO 07-12-2019 18:35

Re: Anchor Chain Size and Anchor Size - Lagoon 440
 
Thanks Everyone - That really helps.


FYI - I'll be slowly sailing From Australia to the Med and then who knows...

KP44 07-12-2019 19:00

Re: Anchor Chain Size and Anchor Size - Lagoon 440
 
I have a story about a 35' Jacques Cousteau research vessel anchored in southern Chile. They were using about a 35 pound CQR and we didn't think that was even close to what was "prudent". Their answer was, "The chain! The chain!" The were using 1/2"chain and the weight of the chain assured that their small anchor stayed secure.

The 10 mm chain and a somewhat larger anchor sounds right. A smaller anchor with heavy chain was good. But if your chain weight goes down, consider the next size up for your anchor.

boom23 07-12-2019 21:06

Re: Anchor Chain Size and Anchor Size - Lagoon 440
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by UFO (Post 3031434)
Thanks Everyone - That really helps.


FYI - I'll be slowly sailing From Australia to the Med and then who knows...

In that case, I would get 100m of 10mm G43 HT chain and a 40kg+ Ultra or Rocna or Manson Supreme anchor.

I had a Lagoon 450 with a 36kg/80lb Manson Supreme in the S Pacific and it was fine. I wouldn't go smaller. I would go larger for added safety.

steve450 09-12-2019 05:07

Re: Anchor Chain Size and Anchor Size - Lagoon 440
 
Your 440 should not have a weight problem with 80m of 12mm chain and a 40kg anchor i cannot believe you would consider 10mm chain most of the so called cruises always want a lighter boat.we see so many boats dragging itís ridiculous and these yachtys dont take enough responsibility when they hit you or something else so when youíre anchored in 30-40kn winds and high swell at least you have a greater chance of staying put.we have a 45kg stainless ultra anchor and 95m of 13m chain.we sail with 4 450 lagoons and 3 440s two of which we had to go aboard and stop them from dragging. Its your life and family so donít listen to anyone using 10mm chain unless they will pay youíre insurance costs at least you have given your self the best chance. Ps try re-anchoring in the middle of the night with no moon on the barrier reef you could always ring those who recommended 10mm chain and light anchors to help you

rom 11-12-2019 01:24

Re: Anchor Chain Size and Anchor Size - Lagoon 440
 
L440 here, full time live aboard, 75m of 12mm chain with 30kg Spade. (Had a 25kg Delta for 3 years, pretty good in most conditions). I am mostly sailing in the med, shallow sand most often. Tried 10mm chain on a friend's L440... 12mm works *way* better with less chain out, which is particularly useful in crowded anchorages.


The boat came with a 100m of 12mm, so it does fit, but I cut it to 75m as I have no use for more and it does weight a lot indeed. You will need to spread the chain in the locker manually sometimes to prevent it to reach the top and get stuck in the windlass.

UFO 11-12-2019 17:49

Re: Anchor Chain Size and Anchor Size - Lagoon 440
 
There appears to be 2 opposing camps Re: the Chain.


I had a chat to the guys at Manson in New Zealand and they told me that with my 1/2 inch chain my current 60lb Supreme was fine for 'most' Conditions, but they recommend moving up to the 80lb for big conditions.



If I were to drop down to 10mm Chain then they recommend going for the 100lb Supreme.



Having used the current setup in strong tidal areas and 15-20Kt winds, I must say that it didn't budge an inch, but that was in nice sandy bottoms:)


The weight difference between 10mm and 12mm for 100m is around 100Kg - 220lb - Which after you take off the bigger anchor comes in at a 200lb weight saving, which is quite substantial and will make a difference to the sailing ability, But from the first hand anchoring experience above of Cats using 10mm and 12mm chain, saying the 12mm is Much better, puts a bit of a dilemma over things.


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