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-   -   Fuel additives? Yes or no (https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f54/fuel-additives-yes-or-no-223498.html)

redneckrob 13-09-2019 16:07

Re: Fuel additives? Yes or no
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MicHughV (Post 2976004)
...this discussion seems to disregard the value of a good diesel filter/water separator or two...

Again, if you buy fresh water free fuel, run all the fuel in your tanks through those filters daily, and use it rapidly then probably algea and other biomass won't have enough water to grow in. It's the crap growing that's the problem, not water getting to the cylinder, and it grows if there's any water in the tank. The truth is 99% of us can't do that. And as I pointed out, even with a commercial grade fuel farm with a full time fuel manager who does complex tests on the fuel daily, with fuel that sits in the fuel farm for at most a matter of weeks after delivery from the refinery, and go/no go filters on the aircraft and on the aircraft I flew 2 fuel filters...we still added an additive for water in every pound of jet fuel we used as military pilots. And while the impact of fuel issues are obviously greater with aircraft, turbine engines are far more forgiving of fuel issues than a common rail diesel. So, if a good filter/water separator is just as good as a good filter/water separator plus all the stuff I just mentioned, then clearly those military folks are all morons!

David Mathis 13-09-2019 18:23

Re: Fuel additives? Yes or no
 
In northern New York, boats are usually on the hard for 5 - 6 months from when the leaves turn until the snow melts. My boat holds 436 gallons. It gets biocide then filled before hauling to reduce condensation and the growth of any biomass that could create problems. So far, no problems. The biocide additive in the fall is just another form of insurance. Some take the risk, We don't. The once a year additive is an economical means to reduce risk. As to other additives, we don't use them.

Simi 60 13-09-2019 18:29

Re: Fuel additives? Yes or no
 
I wonder how all those vessels in poorer countries go that can't access or afford to import biobor, stanydyne, startron or the like.

Their fuel tanks must have bubbling black mess exploding out the top yet for some reason they don't.

Wotname 13-09-2019 18:34

Re: Fuel additives? Yes or no
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Simi 60 (Post 2976322)
I wonder how all those vessels in poorer countries go that can't access or afford to import biobor, stanydyne, startron or the like.

Their fuel tanks must have bubbling black mess exploding out the top yet for some reason they don't.

They toss a couple of kids into empty tanks and tell not to come out until the tanks is shiny clean. Then they toss a dollar to 'em.

Everything is easy when there is an abundance of cheap unskilled labour!

Compass790 13-09-2019 19:11

Re: Fuel additives? Yes or no
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Simi 60 (Post 2976322)
I wonder how all those vessels in poorer countries go that can't access or afford to import biobor, stanydyne, startron or the like.

Their fuel tanks must have bubbling black mess exploding out the top yet for some reason they don't.

Do you use biofuel? I'm just curious as there seems to be a bit of a disconnect here in this thread concerning ambient temperature wise & biofuel & just plain ULSD.
I'm of the no additive school but I'm willing to be persuaded otherwise. However ambient conditions, fuel types & storage times need to be similar
Reason I'm of the no additive school is 5 years experience but have a 20 litre fuel tank & consumption is less than 1 litre per hr. so tiny compared to most on CF. Don't use engine much in winter but maybe 200 hrs in summer
I have 0 experience with biofuel but willing to try it if anyone can tell me their experiences in the 4oC to 30oC range & storage times
I'd like to try biofuel for 3 reasons, lubricity, renewable, & smell.
Have read a lot of anti-biofuel posts but mostly from much colder climates.
Would be interested in feedback from temperate regions

CF32907 13-09-2019 19:26

Re: Fuel additives? Yes or no
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Delray (Post 2970751)
I have twin 490hp Yanmar Diesel engines. Should I use fuel additives or not?
If you should use them, why isn't the fuel pre treated?

CaptVR here; hope all has pleasant winds and blue skies.....
Most diesel suppliers / dealers, have all the important additives added to the fuel. If your a large powerboat with 500-1000 gallons of tankage and you only add a couple hundred at a time. Your return lines warming the main tanks, I would definitely ad a biocide, the warm diesel sitting in the tanks is a nursery for growth. You should periodically take a fuel sample from the bottom of the tank, and check for contamination. If found, all boating areas have companies that have huge racors and high pressure pumps that scrub the tanks as well as cleaning all your fuel so none is wasted. Tanks don't need removing or emptying. They do need an access port...
Also all sailboats with there 20-60 gallon tanks that they buy fuel once a year or two, definitely should use a biocide as well as a cetane booster.

thinwater 13-09-2019 20:08

Re: Fuel additives? Yes or no
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Simi 60 (Post 2976322)
I wonder how all those vessels in poorer countries go that can't access or afford to import biobor, stanydyne, startron or the like.

Their fuel tanks must have bubbling black mess exploding out the top yet for some reason they don't.


Perhaps people with little money in poor countries don't have boats they don't use regularly. The luxury to waste is a first world thing. Obvious?

Simi 60 13-09-2019 20:25

Re: Fuel additives? Yes or no
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Compass790 (Post 2976336)
Do you use biofuel? I'm just curious as there seems to be a bit of a disconnect here in this thread concerning ambient temperature wise & biofuel & just plain ULSD.
I'm of the no additive school but I'm willing to be persuaded otherwise. However ambient conditions, fuel types & storage times need to be similar
Reason I'm of the no additive school is 5 years experience but have a 20 litre fuel tank & consumption is less than 1 litre per hr. so tiny compared to most on CF. Don't use engine much in winter but maybe 200 hrs in summer
I have 0 experience with biofuel but willing to try it if anyone can tell me their experiences in the 4oC to 30oC range & storage times
I'd like to try biofuel for 3 reasons, lubricity, renewable, & smell.
Have read a lot of anti-biofuel posts but mostly from much colder climates.
Would be interested in feedback from temperate regions

Not sure.
In Australia apparently up to 5% biodiesel can be added without labelling.

Indonesia uses mostly biodiesel 20% pushing for 30%

https://www.thestar.com.my/business/...il-consumption

Simi 60 13-09-2019 20:27

Re: Fuel additives? Yes or no
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by thinwater (Post 2976360)
Perhaps people with little money in poor countries don't have boats they don't use regularly. The luxury to waste is a first world thing. Obvious?

No shortage of small fishing boats and small passenger boats running diesel in south east asia

CF32907 13-09-2019 20:35

Re: Fuel additives? Yes or no
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by thinwater (Post 2976360)
Perhaps people with little money in poor countries don't have boats they don't use regularly. The luxury to waste is a first world thing. Obvious?

What makes you think they don't. Most of the third world areas I've been in have large filters with nasty glass and virtually black fuel. If you want to run your vessel that way, we know what your feelings are. I was a marine surveyor for 20 years, built six boats and to airplanes. I'm very opinionated, but that is what I was paid for. I've seen the best to the worst, I surveyed Haitian boats for the gsa, there systems are the nastiest, but most still ran. What's your point, we need to do no maintenance nor preventative work at all. You do what I say, it may keep you out of trouble, you do what you say, your eventually will break down, hopefully where you can get help.....I do feel very sorry for you!!!

Simi 60 13-09-2019 20:36

Re: Fuel additives? Yes or no
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by CF32907 (Post 2976344)
If your a large powerboat with 500-1000 gallons of tankage and you only add a couple hundred at a time. Your return lines warming the main tanks, I would definitely ad a biocide, the warm diesel sitting in the tanks is a nursery for growth. .

We have nearly 2000 gallons
Most of the time we only have 1000 gallons
Whenever we take on fuel its usually around 250 gallons
Our engine, an NTA855m Cummins actually uses the diesel to help cool the engine, so fuel is definitely warm

Quote:

You should periodically take a fuel sample from the bottom of the tank, and check for contamination.
I take a sample every couple of months from the crud sump in the tank bottom
Fuel is always clean
I use no additives and live in a subtropical climate.

Simi 60 13-09-2019 21:28

Re: Fuel additives? Yes or no
 
Just went down and cracked the taps on the crud sump and drained one litre a side to prove to myself what I say is true.

Starb tank was spotless, not a speck of anything.
Port tank had a few flecks of grit, combined, less than a match head

Magic fuel tanks apparently.

LeGe 13-09-2019 23:10

Re: Fuel additives? Yes or no
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by lvictorlucas (Post 2971419)
It looks like you got a lot of testimonials and opinions. Since you asked a serious question here is an answer based on some of my typical assumptions for you:

1) Always try to get fuel from a busy location and not just after their tanks are filled
2) If you can't then filter it before it goes into the tanks (small holding tank with lift pump)
3) Add biocide
4) Add Diesel preservative
5) Try to keep one know good tank of fuel in reserve
6) Empty the water seperators so you can tell if you got fuel with water quickly
7) Rig a spare lift pump to the water separators so you can detect contaminated fuel quickly before you leave the dock (and your backup lift pump is always ready to go)
8) Rig a pressure gauge across the filter to tell when it needs to be changed before the engine is starved of fuel
9) Rig at least two primary water separators filters in parallel so you can switch them quickly
10) Rig 10, 5 or 2 and 0.5 micron filters in series before the fuel gets to the high pressure injection pump
11) Try to keep the tanks full
12) Rig a dehydrator filter to the air vent and check it regularly
13) If you have the opportunity install a water sump and pickup to the lowest point in each tank (you can use the backup lift pump and primary filter when you topoff the tanks
14) Use the backup lift pump to transfer between tanks if you are going to be on a long tack
15) Don't forget to switch the return line when you switch tanks
16) Always carry plenty of spares filters for all you filter types
17) Unless you have a problem don't worry about octane booster but carry some incase need it on some primitive remote island

That's probably enough to get you started.

You’re beautiful man....

vanderd 14-09-2019 01:14

Re: Fuel additives? Yes or no
 
Several years ago I took a several day hands on course sponsored by Yanmar’s NE Region Distributor. They were pretty emphatic about using Biobor and nothing else

Simi 60 14-09-2019 01:29

Re: Fuel additives? Yes or no
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by vanderd (Post 2976445)
Several years ago I took a several day hands on course sponsored by Yanmar’s NE Region Distributor. They were pretty emphatic about using Biobor and nothing else

And in the rest of the world that doesn't have biobor?


Yanmar say'shttps://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ide-64692.html


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