Cruisers & Sailing Forums (https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/)
-   Engines and Propulsion Systems (https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f54/)
-   -   Oil Service Rating Alphabet Soup - Yanmar 4JH45 (https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f54/oil-service-rating-alphabet-soup-yanmar-4jh45-222038.html)

Howler 07-08-2019 07:52

Oil Service Rating Alphabet Soup - Yanmar 4JH45
 
The Yanmar 4JH45 operation manual calls for engine oil with the following service ratings: CD, CF, CF-4, CI and CI-4.

The West Marine oil that most people seem to use has the following specifications: CD, CD-2, CE, CF, CF-2, SG, SH, SJ.
  • The CF rating number of the oil is 2 less than the spec.
  • There is no CI rating mentioned.

Are these real concerns? Would it invalidate the warranty or affect performance to use oil with these differences?

The alternative seems to be to use Yanmar branded oil.

Thanks!

S/V Illusion 07-08-2019 07:55

Re: Oil Service Rating Alphabet Soup - Yanmar 4JH45
 
The manufacturer specifies minimum rating. Consequently, anything rated for 'higher' service is acceptable. The API ratings definitions are widely available.

Howler 07-08-2019 07:58

Re: Oil Service Rating Alphabet Soup - Yanmar 4JH45
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by S/V Illusion (Post 2948434)
The manufacturer specifies minimum rating. Consequently, anything rated for 'higher' service is acceptable. The API ratings definitions are widely available.

Right, but these are lower, which is why I'm trying the gauge the importance of the differences. I'll read the definitions.

tkeithlu 07-08-2019 08:18

Re: Oil Service Rating Alphabet Soup - Yanmar 4JH45
 
CD is the lowest rating Yanmar allows, and the oil you are talking about meets it. You're fine.

These are progressive letters. "C," then CA, CB.... to higher standards. Any CD oil meets CA, CB, CC, and CD.

Just in case you're not familiar with the system, "C" stands for "Compression Ignition," otherwise known as diesel. "S" stands for "Spark ignition" otherwise known as gasoline/sparkplug engines. "C" oil tends to meet "S" standards, because diesel engine oil gets the crap beat out of it. For a long time there were no multigrade "C" series oils. The higher classifications mean lots of whing-dilly additives that make the oil capable of lubricating modern close-tolerance high compression high reving engines.

Calif.Ted 07-08-2019 08:46

Re: Oil Service Rating Alphabet Soup - Yanmar 4JH45
 
West Marina makes oil ?? Chevron Delos and Shell Rotella are the 2 most popular oils for diesels with most professional diesel mechanics preferring Rotella.

a64pilot 07-08-2019 08:52

Oil Service Rating Alphabet Soup - Yanmar 4JH45
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by S/V Illusion (Post 2948434)
The manufacturer specifies minimum rating. Consequently, anything rated for 'higher' service is acceptable. The API ratings definitions are widely available.



That used to be true, but I believe that very recently that has changed, there is newer Diesel oil meant I think for engines with catalysts or something that doesn’t meet the spec for our old engines.
Oil that does meet our spec is I believe much more widely available than this new stuff, I’ll do a little looking to see if I’m wrong, what’s it’s called etc.

On edit this link may help.
I believe the new oils are cj-4 and fa-4? But they are NOT backwards compatible.
CD oils are no longer available, and even if they were you likely wouldn’t want them, they were I believe very high TBN oils meant for high sulphur fuel. Not certain though.
https://www.dieselnet.com/tech/lube_classifications.php

Lambretta 07-08-2019 08:54

Re: Oil Service Rating Alphabet Soup - Yanmar 4JH45
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by tkeithlu (Post 2948466)
CD is the lowest rating Yanmar allows, and the oil you are talking about meets it. You're fine.

These are progressive letters. "C," then CA, CB.... to higher standards. Any CD oil meets CA, CB, CC, and CD.

Just in case you're not familiar with the system, "C" stands for "Compression Ignition," otherwise known as diesel. "S" stands for "Spark ignition" otherwise known as gasoline/sparkplug engines. "C" oil tends to meet "S" standards, because diesel engine oil gets the crap beat out of it. For a long time there were no multigrade "C" series oils. The higher classifications mean lots of whing-dilly additives that make the oil capable of lubricating modern close-tolerance high compression high reving engines.

Thanks for this info ....... I found it really useful and informative:thumb:

Regarding the section I have highlighted in bold above ..... does that also mean that all S rated oils will be (or can be) used in diesel engines?

Do the S rated oils also have a scale using second letters (A, B etc like the diesel oils?)

Or maybe let me put it another way:whistling:

If the S oils do also have a second letter rating how would one correlate them to the correct minimum diesel oil rating (if one had to for whatever reason)

sorry for trying to over analyse this :facepalm::whistling::banghead:

Thanks

a64pilot 07-08-2019 09:02

Oil Service Rating Alphabet Soup - Yanmar 4JH45
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lambretta (Post 2948492)
Thanks for this info ....... I found it really useful and informative:thumb:



Regarding the section I have highlighted in bold above ..... does that also mean that all S rated oils will be (or can be) used in diesel engines?



Do the S rated oils also have a scale using second letters (A, B etc like the diesel oils?)



Or maybe let me put it another way:whistling:



If the S oils do also have a second letter rating how would one correlate them to the correct minimum diesel oil rating (if one had to for whatever reason)



sorry for trying to over analyse this :facepalm::whistling::banghead:



Thanks



Some of the better S type oils meet C standards, if they do it’s on the label.
Most often the reason many C type oils don’t meet S standards is they have anti wear additives, like zinc that work great for reducing wear, but will poison a catalytic converter, so it’s great for the engine, but will kill the Cat and likely the O2 sensors as well, which is expensive to replace, and newer cars won’t run well with inop pollution controls.

Best thing if possible is to run a “good” “C” oil, almost all are good oils, pick one that is widely available in your area.
Now that’s an opinion of course, you will get other opinions.

In my opinion my Diesel oil in my little Yanmar NA motor is much easier on oil than the little turbo Miata we drive, that runs 4,000 RPM at highway speeds and the turbo of course adds a lot of heat to the oil.
However just as an average Diesel oil is usually superior for wear prevention, and I run Rotella T6 Diesel oil in all my spark ignition engines. It meets “S” standards

Jammer 07-08-2019 09:03

Re: Oil Service Rating Alphabet Soup - Yanmar 4JH45
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by S/V Illusion (Post 2948434)
The manufacturer specifies minimum rating. Consequently, anything rated for 'higher' service is acceptable. The API ratings definitions are widely available.


That isn't necessarily true for diesel engines. In particular some engines that require CF grade oil are not compatible with newer oils.




Explanation of CC, CD, CF, etc. categories for diesel engine oil


For gasoline engines, the oils are supposed to be backwards compatible, although there are reports of problems here and there with using some of the low-emissions/energy conserving oils in engines not designed for them. These reports aren't well substantiated but as in all things engine oil there are some true believers out there.


SF, SG, ... and GF-xxx series explained


Quote:

Originally Posted by Howler (Post 2948432)
The Yanmar 4JH45 operation manual calls for engine oil with the following service ratings: CD, CF, CF-4, CI and CI-4.

The West Marine oil that most people seem to use has the following specifications: CD, CD-2, CE, CF, CF-2, SG, SH, SJ.
  • The CF rating number of the oil is 2 less than the spec.
  • There is no CI rating mentioned.

Are these real concerns? Would it invalidate the warranty or affect performance to use oil with these differences?

The alternative seems to be to use Yanmar branded oil.

Thanks!


As long as the oil meets one of the specs that Yanmar lists, you're good. It doesn't have to meet all of them.

Scubaseas 07-08-2019 09:13

Re: Oil Service Rating Alphabet Soup - Yanmar 4JH45
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Howler (Post 2948432)
The Yanmar 4JH45 operation manual calls for engine oil with the following service ratings: CD, CF, CF-4, CI and CI-4.

The West Marine oil that most people seem to use has the following specifications: CD, CD-2, CE, CF, CF-2, SG, SH, SJ.
  • The CF rating number of the oil is 2 less than the spec.
  • There is no CI rating mentioned.

Are these real concerns? Would it invalidate the warranty or affect performance to use oil with these differences?

The alternative seems to be to use Yanmar branded oil.

Thanks!


Mobil One Turbo Diesel is a good choice for Yanmar. Rotella is popular but not quite the same but meets specs. I personally much prefer synthetic oils.


I would not use a CF-2 oil. CI oils are the latest/highest standard and are fine to use.

Any oil will work in an pinch but given how easily available (Walmart, Autozone, NAPA etc...) you may as well get an oil specific to your engine.

https://www.api.org/products-and-ser...oil-categories

a64pilot 07-08-2019 09:19

Re: Oil Service Rating Alphabet Soup - Yanmar 4JH45
 
Correction CK-4 oil is backward compatible, FA-4 is NOT

Jammer 07-08-2019 09:30

Re: Oil Service Rating Alphabet Soup - Yanmar 4JH45
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by tkeithlu (Post 2948466)
"C" oil tends to meet "S" standards, because diesel engine oil gets the crap beat out of it. For a long time there were no multigrade "C" series oils. The higher classifications mean lots of whing-dilly additives that make the oil capable of lubricating modern close-tolerance high compression high reving engines.


There is much more to it than that.


The initial progression of the standards in the 50s and 60s was mainly related to temperature. Newer oils could run at higher temperatures without deteriorating. The dispersant (detergent) package may have improved a little, too.


Changes in the 1970s to the Sxxxx series involved removing metal content from the oil additives to protect the catalytic converters that were then being added to cars.


Whether a diesel engine oil also meets gasoline engine requirements varies by the product. Here is a current example of a spec sheet for Mobil Delvac Extreme that indicates that the 15W40 version meets API SL and SM but the 10W30 formulation does not: file:///C:/Users/steve/AppData/Local/Temp/GLXXMobil-Delvac-Extreme.pdf


More recent changes have involved better thermal performance as well as better emissions performance and fuel economy. While the effects of engine oil on emissions and fuel economy are slight, car manufacturers rely on these improvements to meet fleet average regulations and specify the newer oils as one way to do that.


The most recent proprietary specifications e.g. Dexos are oils that have a higher shear resistance that maintain their viscosity better and support a longer drain interval. Most of these oils are synthetic or part synthetic.

tkeithlu 07-08-2019 10:20

Re: Oil Service Rating Alphabet Soup - Yanmar 4JH45
 
LAMBRETTA - NO!!!
"S" oils, for gasoline engines, rarely meet "C" standards, and would say so on the label.

Yes
"S" oils have the same alphabet rating system, where SJ satifies SE, etc.

A diesel can chew up and spit out a gasoline engine oil. That's the one mistake you must not make. You could dig more deeply and learn the reasons for the rating changes, as several posters have suggested, but if you understand how the scales work and read the labels, you'll be OK.

stormalong 07-08-2019 13:00

Re: Oil Service Rating Alphabet Soup - Yanmar 4JH45
 
Another reason for the diesel rating is that the higher compression of a diesel engine means more contaminant get past the rings into the oil. The diesel rated oil has additives to deal with that. That is also why oil change intervals are so short compared to gasoline engines.

I would never trust Worst Marine to sell a good diesel oil. It is undoubtedly supplied by the lowest bidder.


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 15:55.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.


ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.