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-   -   Cruising Without Alternator (Temporarily) (https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f14/cruising-without-alternator-temporarily-219123.html)

Fuss 05-06-2019 11:20

Re: Cruising Without Alternator (Temporarily)
 
yes, why, do you see a problem with that!!! perpetual motion with no moving parts. sounds perfect to me..
Actually... what i meant was ... connect the inverter to the house bank and then charge the starter battery.

Sailmonkey 05-06-2019 11:34

Re: Cruising Without Alternator (Temporarily)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Fuss (Post 2902867)
yes, why, do you see a problem with that!!! perpetual motion with no moving parts. sounds perfect to me..
Actually... what i meant was ... connect the inverter to the house bank and then charge the starter battery.

I figured it would be far more efficient to parallel the house and start bank until the start battery is charged.:smile:

GordMay 05-06-2019 14:47

Re: Cruising Without Alternator (Temporarily)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by NorthCoastJoe (Post 2902753)
If you can not get yours repaired you should be able to adapt a car alternator to your Yanmar ...

If you’re shopping for a temporary generic automotive alternator:
Yanmar uses the 3.15" Dual foot saddle mount (Hitachi style; Balmar Model 60) alternators. These are also used on: Mercruiser, Lehman, Perkins-Sabre, Westerbeke, and any Hitachi equipped engines
3.15" is the internal dimension between the two mounting feet.
https://www.balmar.net/wp-content/upl...SV-300x300.png

theway 05-06-2019 16:42

Re: Cruising Without Alternator (Temporarily)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by smac999 (Post 2902772)
Is this with everything plugged in? Or with stuff jumpered?

Sounds like Your alt is charging but is low. As it went from 13v to 13.5v. What is the voltage on the back of the alt at 1400?

Put a clamp meter on the alt pos cable with a discharged battery.



This is with all connected. And yes it does look promising. I initially thought everything was fine and it wasnít charging because the batteries were simply full from the solar, but the regulator didnít show the green light which I believe is supposed to indicate full batteries. And I think there has only been one time in the past when they were that full, so I ran them down a bit but still no charging from the alternator.

I didnít test the the back of the alt because the engine room is small and access to alternator is through the cockpit locker. Even looking at and cleaning the connections is going to be tough, but hanging down inside that little space is not a good idea with the engine running.

Thanks again for the follow up.

peter57 05-06-2019 16:48

Re: Cruising Without Alternator (Temporarily)
 
A set of jumper leads will suffice until you get to where you want to fix it, and leave them connected for an reasonable amount of time to charge the start battery so you do not destroy the Battery.

theway 05-06-2019 16:51

Re: Cruising Without Alternator (Temporarily)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mabowers (Post 2902791)
Is there any chance that turning off that switch while the engine was running is the cause of your alternator failure in the 1st place ?


Anything is possible....

But Iíve been doing it for 9 yrs. the charge load always goes to the starter and house banks, the switch just cuts the connection from the distribution panel to the starter battery. I also have a switch the letís me start from the house banks.

RaymondR 05-06-2019 19:02

Re: Cruising Without Alternator (Temporarily)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by theway (Post 2903052)
Anything is possible....

But I’ve been doing it for 9 yrs. the charge load always goes to the starter and house banks, the switch just cuts the connection from the distribution panel to the starter battery. I also have a switch the let’s me start from the house banks.

I seem to recall that the ignition switch connection to the alternator is just to provide a small amount of rotor current to initiate charging and once power generation is established it's no longer needed. I seem to recall it's generally routed through the charge warning lamp and when no longer needed and the current flow stops the lamp goes out.

theway 05-06-2019 19:15

Re: Cruising Without Alternator (Temporarily)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by smac999 (Post 2902772)
Is this with everything plugged in? Or with stuff jumpered?

Sounds like Your alt is charging but is low. As it went from 13v to 13.5v. What is the voltage on the back of the alt at 1400?

Put a clamp meter on the alt pos cable with a discharged battery.



I was able to get in there and test the alternator directly at idle speed around 1000rpms and saw 0.07V. With a multi-meter I put the red on the positive post and the black to the ground (tried both ground post and engine) Is that the correct test from the back?

Thanks again.
austin

:)

Boatyarddog 05-06-2019 19:19

Re: Cruising Without Alternator (Temporarily)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by theway (Post 2902435)
My alternator recently died and was wondering how long a starter battery can last if only used for cranking the engine? I have the Bluetop D34M. Iím curious about two situations...

1: (Curiosity) If the starter battery was only used for cranking and never charged. How many cranks could it do?

2: (Actual) If the starter battery was charged some from 2 - 100watt solar panels.... I have 2 House banks fed by 2 - 100watt solar panels (one per bank). That power can also be sent to the starter battery when the starter battery switch is on. My general power needs are low and easily met with the solar, my concern is starter battery draw from each crank.

(Iím in Indonesia and would like to make it to Singapore if possible, but that would be about 1,000 miles and about 60 days. A few moments ago I created a separate thread about trying to source a Balmar Alternator in Indonesia. )

Thanks,
austin

:)

I'd use my genset to charge underway if needed.
What? No genset?
Needed item for all cruisers.
Cheers
SV Cloud Duster

a64pilot 05-06-2019 19:25

Cruising Without Alternator (Temporarily)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Boatyarddog (Post 2903105)
I'd use my genset to charge underway if needed.

What? No genset?

Needed item for all cruisers.

Cheers

SV Cloud Duster



No, he has one, heís said that in the beginning, which is why I have been kind of chuckling about most of the responses.
I assume he also has a shore power charger, if not get at least a car charger.

However Iíd want something. GM has for decades made a one wire alternator, just connect it to the battery bank and it will output about 14V continuously, not three stage, but certainly better than nothing.

Surely GM canít be alone in the world with a one wire alternator.

I put them on all of the farm equipment, nothing is simpler.

Stu Jackson 05-06-2019 21:27

Re: Cruising Without Alternator (Temporarily)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by theway (Post 2903104)
I was able to get in there and test the alternator directly at idle speed around 1000rpms and saw 0.07V. With a multi-meter I put the red on the positive post and the black to the ground (tried both ground post and engine) Is that the correct test from the back?

Thanks again.
austin

:)


Would that not either indicate your bank is full OR you do not have enough rpm to generate output? 1000 rpm is almost less than idle. Have you considered upping the rpms when you measure?

Dsanduril 05-06-2019 21:35

Re: Cruising Without Alternator (Temporarily)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by theway (Post 2903104)
I was able to get in there and test the alternator directly at idle speed around 1000rpms and saw 0.07V. With a multi-meter I put the red on the positive post and the black to the ground (tried both ground post and engine) Is that the correct test from the back?

Thanks again.
austin

:)

0.07V indicates that the alternator is not connected to the battery. At the very least you should get the same voltage as the battery (12.x) at the back of the alternator (presuming you are measuring from the alternator output cable and a common). In fact, you should be able to measure 12.x V there even if the engine is shut down. The only exception would be if you have a diode isolator somewhere between the alternator and the battery. Otherwise the output post of an alternator is generally hot.

If you do have a diode isolator then your measurement indicates the alternator is not generating, there are several possible reasons.

If you have disconnected the battery after starting then the alternator voltage will be zero (as you found) because there is no field current to cause the alternator to start generation.

theway 05-06-2019 23:58

Re: Cruising Without Alternator (Temporarily)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by a64pilot (Post 2903107)
No, he has one, heís said that in the beginning, which is why I have been kind of chuckling about most of the responses.
I assume he also has a shore power charger, if not get at least a car charger.

However Iíd want something. GM has for decades made a one wire alternator, just connect it to the battery bank and it will output about 14V continuously, not three stage, but certainly better than nothing.

Surely GM canít be alone in the world with a one wire alternator.

I put them on all of the farm equipment, nothing is simpler.



One wire sounds amazingly simple. Iíll keep an eye out. Is it internally regulated then?

theway 06-06-2019 00:03

Cruising Without Alternator (Temporarily)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dsanduril (Post 2903140)
0.07V indicates that the alternator is not connected to the battery. At the very least you should get the same voltage as the battery (12.x) at the back of the alternator (presuming you are measuring from the alternator output cable and a common). In fact, you should be able to measure 12.x V there even if the engine is shut down. The only exception would be if you have a diode isolator somewhere between the alternator and the battery. Otherwise the output post of an alternator is generally hot.



If you do have a diode isolator then your measurement indicates the alternator is not generating, there are several possible reasons.



If you have disconnected the battery after starting then the alternator voltage will be zero (as you found) because there is no field current to cause the alternator to start generation.



Yup, there is an isolator. And yup thatís the measurement I got numerous times. It was tested right after I cleaned all contacts and connected ends with sand paper. I guess I could have went up to 1400rpm but 0.07 at 1000 doesnít seem good.

It just seems like it never kicks on as it used to after a minute... see my next post...

theway 06-06-2019 00:12

Cruising Without Alternator (Temporarily)
 
1 Attachment(s)
To add to this, discussion as a question. What is the trigger or mechanism that makes the charging kick in/start up. The regulator is designed to wait a little while for the engine to warm up before the load is asked of the engine, where would this be tested, because it seems that it just never kicks in after 1 min as it used to.

Does the alternator need to be told to start putting out power or is it always putting out power when spinning? And the regulator just decided how much power the alternator should make, or is it always making full power and regulator decides how much to send to the batteries? This would be helpful to know and just generally interesting.

Thanks.

See attached.

Attachment 193334


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