Cruisers & Sailing Forums (https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/)
-   Anchoring & Mooring (https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f118/)
-   -   a crazy idea for an anchor winch (https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f118/a-crazy-idea-for-an-anchor-winch-20002.html)

scotty 04-10-2008 12:02

a crazy idea for an anchor winch
 
okay now that my ground tackle weighs about 70 lbs including the chain and i anchor in mud and i set it hard i a having a hard time pulling it up by hand. i need to pull it up till its zero scope then use the motor to break it free.

i was at the store and i saw smaller electric winches like Harbor Freight Tools - Quality Tools at the Lowest Prices and had a thought about converting one to use a boat winch type drum. it would not be anything but a take it up on deck, drop on a mount of sort, wind rope, pull anchor, and stow it all. although a weather and water proof housing could be made easily enough. the other option i thought of is to extend the shaft and mount it below deck with the drum above vertically . i think i could do this for the winch price plus 50 bucks, as i have a mill and lathe.

any thoughts ?

SkiprJohn 04-10-2008 12:10

Aloha Scotty,
Saltwater and cheap electric tools don't mix well. Have you thought of just getting an old good sized second hand jib sheet winch at a boat parts store and mounting it on the foredeck? I gave an old winch to a fisherman friend who was having the same kind of problems that you are and he was telling me for years how it came in so handy. It would work well on line and then you could hand up the chain? Or if you used it on the chain just replace it with another second hand winch a couple years later once the drum is chewed up.
Just a thought.
JohnL

imagine2frolic 04-10-2008 12:22

Scotty,

and most people complain that they drag anchor.....count your blessing, and continue to motor over the anchor:D

Vasco 04-10-2008 12:43

Scotty,

Using the motor to break the anchor free is the proper way to do it. My favourite anchorage here in Toronto is about 24 feet deep and mud. I'm there most weekends (in summer anyway). My CS36M doesn't have a windlass so I haul the 33# Bruce and 3/8" chain up by hand and I bet I'm older than you. The easiest way to do this is to sit down and use your upper body strength. Don't stand up as you'll wreck your back. Just sit on the deck with your legs out straight against the toe rails or pulpit and pull.

GMac 04-10-2008 14:12

You thinking something along these lines Scotty?

The Maxi Stress Free Marine boat anchor winch suitable for boats over seven metres

One of a few versions by assorted manufacturers. I know some that have been set-up to be 'portable'.

Rick 04-10-2008 14:22

Winch
 
Scotty, I use one of those units mounted on my radar arch to raise/drop my outboard from/to the dinghy. It works very well because I replaced the steel cable with HM line and treated the unit with SP400 anti-corrosive and have a Sunbrella cover over it all.

This particular unit has a decent retreival rate to minimise the "exposure time" when the outboard might be swinging due to wave action that other similar units do not have.

This unit would not lend itself to hauling an anchor because the drum will not handle enough line. In addition, NONE of these cheap units will really deliver on their "rated" load due to the friction on the cheap bearings multiplied by the gear-ratio squared when under load. I would never consider actually attempting to pull 2000 lbs with this relative "toy" of winches.
Rick

scotty 04-10-2008 16:16

gmac i like that unit, but i was thinking more of the lines of just being a power winch, not a drum too. i am thinking i could replace the drum with winch type drum. maybe even extend the shaft and mount the motor above the v berth and have the drum top side, it would take much work

GMac 04-10-2008 16:47

I think you'll find Rick is right. Unless you buy a top of the line version the cheap ones just don't do what they say. By the time you get a top end one and modify it you will probably better off buying a real winch/capstan.

The problem with drum winches, like the Stressfree for example, is that when the drum is empty (everything deployed) they have good pull but are very slow. When the drum fills up they go bloody quick but have no pull. There is also fleet angle issues, getting the right sized gear to fit well and a few other trick bits which have caught more than one boater. Not to mention they are bloody expensive in comparison with a real winch.

Ex-Calif 04-10-2008 18:10

Scotty - I sympathize - We have the same problem. And with no wash system, rasing the gear manually usually ends up with me looking like a pig farmer...

Gmac - That Maxi Winch looks a bit dodgy (flimsy) - What sort of prices to they get for something like that?

GMac 04-10-2008 18:30

Actually not that flimsy really. Muir do one the same. They both use motors and gearboxes off real winches.

Prices? not too sure but not as cheap as you would expect, pretty much the same as a real winch. I know a bloke who put one in a 42ft fizz nasty and not only does he have to use rather small warp for the size of the boat it also cost him around 4K US$. he would have paid a lot less and been able to us real sized gear had he gone the more standard winch way.

They do have a place but I'd suggest that is at the smaller end of boats and they do have to be set-up right. On a smaller yacht doesn't excite me that much to be honest, more just fizzies.

They are not anything new, commercial fishos have been using things like this for many many years. A crowd makes some here as well but instead of fitting 200ft of 3/8" line like the streefree they'll take 1000ft of 3/4". A recreational v's commercial thing.

I don't have a winch, only a wench ;) (repeat that and I'll hurt you, once I get out of hospital) on my 32fter. I do run lite gear as I also race this one, 21kg (46lbs) for the anchor (alloy Spade) 15mts (45ft) of chain and 60mts (200ft) of warp combined. The Spade does bring up some seabed sometimes but otherwise no worries. I just nudge into gear and get over the top of the anchor before the final heave. If the anchor is well stuck (common) we just pull the rode up tight and cleat it off. Generally inside 30 secs the anchor will let go and easy from there. Once when it was serious buried (the morning after 45-50kts gusts) I got the family up the bow, cleated it off and everyone went aft. About a minute or so later she popped free.

As for the mud, just one of those things us poor people have to live with I suppose but then we are tougher than those lazy bigger boat people ;)

Ex-Calif 04-10-2008 20:15

We have an 18kg something or other - I honestly have never looked at what it is. The blade pivots and it has pretty big flukes. It holds like a bear so no complaints.

It's the big black beast as far as I am concerned. We have about 6 meters of chain and 50 meters of three strand. We rarely anchor in more than 8-10 meters so it works well.

I think what we need is a lighter lunch hook. There are a couple of spots we day anchor around here to swim and shore "party."

Maybe a 10-12 kilo spade with just rope.

Little Otter 04-10-2008 21:40

Hey scotty, whay don't you get a winch that was made for hauling trucks and 4-wheelers out of tight spots, like this one


WARN XT25 ATV Winch
$380.95


https://www.gowarn.com/images/products/XT25.jpg PUSH THE LIMITS AND RIDE WITH CONFIDENCE USING THIS VERSATILE WINCH
You can hit the trail with confidence when you've got the premium XT25. Its lightweight, easy-to-handle synthetic rope is great for pulling an ATV out of a sticky situation, and the rope's flexibility is perfect for plow lifting. Its fast line speed means you'll be out of trouble and back on the trail in a hurry. There's no reason to worry about rollback either, thanks to our patent-pending disc brake. Full sealing protects the XT25 from the elements, and its dependable all-metal 3-stage planetary geartrain and efficient electrical system provide long, powerful pulls with less battery drain. XT25 SPECIFICATIONS and PART NUMBERS:
Part Number: 75500
Rated Line Pull: 2500 lbs.
Motor: 12V DC, 0.9hp permanent magnet, sealed
Control: Sealed handlebar mounted mini-rocker switch
Geartrain: All-metal 3-Stage Planetary
Gear Ratio: 154:1
Clutch (freespooling): Sliding pin and ring gear
Brake: Patent-pending disc brake
Drum Diameter/Length: 2.0"/2.9"
Weight: 13.4 lbs.
Rope: 50' synthetic, 3/16" diameter
Fairlead: Roller
Recommended Battery: 12 Amp/hour minimum for winching
Battery Leads: 8 gauge
Duty Cycle: Intermittent
Warranty: Limited lifetime (valid in USA and Canada only) 12V DC PERFORMANCE SPECS:
Line Pull Lbs.Line Speed FT./minMotor CurrentPull by layer layer/Lbs.01814 amps1/25005001639 amps2/215015001096 amps3/184525005157 amps4/1586 Above performance specs are based on first layer of drumhttps://www.gowarn.com/images/products/xt25-drawing.gif Winch Dimensions: 13.12" L. x 4.51" D. x 4.69" H.Mounting Bolt Pattern: 3" x 4.88"


I realize that this is probably overkill but if you could make a weather proof housing for it, it would work perfectly.:D

GMac 04-10-2008 22:17

Now that is a real puppy, Warn is good gear. It probably will do the published numbers. Interesting price difference.

EX-Calif... 18kg, surely not that big or do I have my Maxi's mixed up. If it's the 7.7mt Maxi, that's not an anchor, it's a mooring :)

Little Otter 05-10-2008 10:30

HAHA:D yeah you could pretty much use this thing for anything you need moved, they also make a smaller version of this winch called the XT15 that cost less or you can get a portable version

Alan Wheeler 05-10-2008 11:40

I would give it a week in the Salt environment. I had a big winch on my 4WD and it required constant maintenance to keep it all free of corrosion and I only played in Fresh water.

Little Otter 05-10-2008 15:18

Hi wheels, My freind had a winch that had the same problem but he switched to a warn and never had that problem again even thogh he went through some salt water with it.

Ex-Calif 05-10-2008 22:25

GMac - 7.7 meters - And yes it's almost a mooring. It barely fits in the locker.

I think the biggest help for me would be a bow roller on a short sprit. Then you could haul the rode easier and not worry about dinging the boat when the anchor comes up.

Right now its lean over the pulpit and haul straight up. Ouch...

Colorado Dreamer 05-10-2008 22:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan Wheeler (Post 212598)
I would give it a week in the Salt environment. I had a big winch on my 4WD and it required constant maintenance to keep it all free of corrosion and I only played in Fresh water.

I agree. My friend Jack tried to use a 4x4 winch on his boat, and it worked great for about a week. It then sat unused for a few days, and then never worked again.

Some things you should buy marine grade....

GMac 05-10-2008 23:36

What about something like this Scotty?
Nilsson Seawinch rope anchor capstans docking and mooring winches furling winches
Thinking more the reel type at the bottom. A bit of a tweak and she might fit the bill. Maybe that 'line hauler' version. It's used by the crayfish and crab guys to pull up,their pots and some of those are in 1000mts of water. The line sits in-between the flange thingys which grip and pull it.

Ex-Calif - My boat is 9.3mts and has a alloy version of a 9kg steel anchor. I've sat through 45-50kts and didn't mover an inch. Save your back and get a new gen anchor in the 6-10 range. I'd almost go are far as to say a 15lb Supreme would be sweet as on your beast. I'd happily use a 8kg Rocna or 20lb Supreme on my boat but neither of them make those sizes :(

scotty 06-10-2008 11:28

gmac the mid speed winch is bascily what i am talking about. i would remove the factory drum and add a new drum like a winch. the motor and gear box would be below deck, which above. i would just need to make a bearing for the lateral load, a new winch drum, and a seal.

Ex-Calif 07-10-2008 21:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by GMac (Post 212798)

Ex-Calif - My boat is 9.3mts and has a alloy version of a 9kg steel anchor. I've sat through 45-50kts and didn't mover an inch. Save your back and get a new gen anchor in the 6-10 range. I'd almost go are far as to say a 15lb Supreme would be sweet as on your beast. I'd happily use a 8kg Rocna or 20lb Supreme on my boat but neither of them make those sizes :(

Thanks GMac, it's on the list. The black beast came with the boat. A new anchor will eventually make it to the top of the priorities list - LOL...

15lbs sounds way better than 18 kilos!

mikereed100 08-10-2008 11:08

You could try one of these but it may not be the least expensive option.

https://www.female-bodybuilders.org/i...ia-gioiosa.jpg

Cheechako 08-10-2008 11:16

Arent those ATV winches real slow retrieval? There's a small outfit who makes an aluminum or stainless on deck electric spool winch similar to the one Gmac linked above, but I just cant find his site. I think he was in Michigan or somewhere in that area. He had four sizes that would stow a lot of line.

S/V Antares 08-10-2008 13:43

If I am in a deep anchorage and have trouble lifting the 30 ft 3/8 chain and 35 lb CQR from the deep I run the tail to the halyard winch on the mast. My "J" is about 15 ft and a short anchor roller adds a foot so I can get a lot of the chain weight in the boat before pulling the remainder in by hand. A chain hook on a short lead helps to tie it off if needed.

Mr Mike n TN 31-10-2012 00:55

Re: a crazy idea for an anchor winch
 
If your in fresh water and you want to EASILY modify a Harbor Freight 2500lb $79 winch into a portable anchor lifter then I know for a fact it will handle a 100lbs of anchors (25lb naval anchor and a Heineken mini keg filled with concrete and rubber coated/sealed) on 125' of anchor line rope.
I have 3 of these anchor setups on my 34' Pontoon boat, and my homemade modified portable anchor winch has NOT let me down in 2 years.
AND I use my boat a minimum of 2-4 days a week in summer and 1-3 days a week in winter.
RAIN or SHINE, HOT or SNOWING!

If its slightly windy out or nasty I zip down and button my canvas sides on my "Cabin". But then the canvas turns into 14' X 8' canvas "sails" that spin me, moves me, and will drag 3 20lb river anchor lines all over the bottom. Generally screwing with me trying to catch the nice 20-50lb catfish im so found of.

When I built my super anchors I found out they were AWESOME for keeping me glued to the bottom and facing down river,, :thumb:
But try to lift 3 of them @ 100lbs each from 60-75 deep, BACK TO BACK in a HURRY because there is a HUGE COMMERCIAL BARGE flying around the river bend RIGHT AT WHERE YOUR FISHING,, DEAD CENTER of the Main River Channel!!! :sprint::sprint:
I almost didnt have the energy to HAVE A HEART ATTACK or walk 15 feet sit at my helm and turn the ignition key!

Heres HOW I DID IT..
I made 3 quick dual tube mounts for the boat, a dual stake mount for the winch and wired 3 #6 gauge 12V terminal outlets. 6gauge was kinda overkill but I had it and it was free.

popped the winch apart , threw away the cheap aircraft cable, got rid of the cover that was over the old cable, TIG welded some "traction nubs" on the winches spool to help grab and guide the rope.
And weather proofed the winch a little.

All I do now is drop the winch into any one of the 3 mounts, plug it in, run the anchor line about 3 wraps around the spool and hit the cable in button.
hold a little light pressure on the free end of the line and feed it into my anchor line storage compartments as IT LIFTS my heavy anchors all the way up to where all i do is pull the anchors 1 foot onto my deck.
Twist the lock nut on the end slide the anchor rope off, turn around walk 10 foot and do it all again.:thumb:

Never break a sweat, dont kill my back or hands, and yes it could be a little faster on the gear ratio, but its ONE HELLOFA lot faster and easier than me lifting them 3 times from 65ft deep.:banghead:
And I got plenty of time to fire up the Mercury Tower of Power and scoot to a safe cove untill the BARGE has passed and his wake is no longer a threat.

My winch has gotten rained on a couple times over 2 years due to I FORGOT to stow it in the weatherproof deck box, and its had alot of heavy DEW and fog on it.
All I ever do is hit it with some compressed dry air, dry it with a blowdryer, shoot some BREAKFREE CLP or AEROKROIL on it, wipe it down and shoot some more compressed dry air on and thru it and its never let me down in 2 yrs.
But I did buy another winch and got to playing around and Home electro NICKLE PLATED IT, and I keep it on the boat as my back up, and I kinda show it off to people. :D

So for under $150, and if you got a normal ammount of common sense and a little time ,,,, You can do the same if you got 100lb anchors and your usually in deeper water. ITS PORTABLE, Its not out in the way, only see it when you need it.

I see no need to buy the $400 to $800 electric anchor lifters.
Unless you just GOT more money than you got ability to do it yourself.
The word BOAT does not always have to stand for :
Break Out Another Thousand!

Cheechako 31-10-2012 09:31

Re: a crazy idea for an anchor winch
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheechako (Post 213722)
Arent those ATV winches real slow retrieval? There's a small outfit who makes an aluminum or stainless on deck electric spool winch similar to the one Gmac linked above, but I just cant find his site. I think he was in Michigan or somewhere in that area. He had four sizes that would stow a lot of line.

found similar one, but in China.. No idea if anyone actually sells these! Sell Winch - New Young Star Metal Co.,Ltd

Juniper 31-10-2012 10:08

Re: a crazy idea for an anchor winch
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SkiprJohn (Post 212381)
Aloha Scotty,
Saltwater and cheap electric tools don't mix well. Have you thought of just getting an old good sized second hand jib sheet winch at a boat parts store and mounting it on the foredeck? I gave an old winch to a fisherman friend who was having the same kind of problems that you are and he was telling me for years how it came in so handy. It would work well on line and then you could hand up the chain? Or if you used it on the chain just replace it with another second hand winch a couple years later once the drum is chewed up.
Just a thought.
JohnL



I am thinking of something like this, but getting a drum made for chain for it,

rtbates 31-10-2012 11:04

Re: a crazy idea for an anchor winch
 
A large two speed genoa sheet winch with an 18" two hand handle will get it up to the chain w/o much fuss...Mount it on the deck back by the helm and you can retrieve and steer at the same time...I do this using my genoa sheet winches when singlehanded and need to raise and steer at the same time..When the chain to rode splice gets to the winch I have the anchor about a about 10 feet under. I putt out to clean it and then retrieve the rest by hand and it's clean..The side deck may be a mess that gets cleaned after I clear the anchorage. For me muscle power is much more reliable than electric power..

jared 11-12-2012 11:23

I've been brainstorming over a manual version. Mainly, I'm concerned about my lady to be able to raise the anchor when needed (and it seems the need is always in the worst conditions) It would work similar to a boat trailer winch with a chain drum modified to fit it. Also, change the gear ratio to haul it up faster but still have a little more power that doing it by hand. I like the idea of it not being permanently mounted at the bow. Anyone see something like that so I don't have to reinvent it?

RabidRabbit 11-12-2012 11:53

Re: a crazy idea for an anchor winch
 
I bought a Maxwell 1500 capstan and have never looked back. Windlass and chain cost $3000, but thats the cost of cruising. Sure less would work, but not if your anchoring every night.

Cheechako 11-12-2012 13:11

Re: a crazy idea for an anchor winch
 
Yeah, hard to beat that combo. Anchoring is a breeze. I have had situations where ihad to anchor 3 times due to misjudgement in a crowded anchorage or difficult bottom. Glad I didnt have to haul by hand.

rebel heart 11-12-2012 13:45

Re: a crazy idea for an anchor winch
 
I haul my rode by hand, like a crazy man!

Chain and a 60lb manson supreme. I goose forward with the engine just to get some way, then start hauling. Keep the momentum up. Once I'm right over the top I snug it up and just keep snugging, with the chain laid over the windlass but the load on a short piece of line with a chain hook. With a 1:1 scope you won't stay buried for long.

Gabrieln 11-12-2012 14:02

Re: a crazy idea for an anchor winch
 
I bought a brand new Lewmar Concept (gypsy only) very very very cheap. A discontinued model on sale.
It's 3X bigger than I need and overwhelmingly powerful. No rust, no troubles, no nothing. Came with the original switches and contacts. Very easy to install.

I suggest you to start or just keep looking.

cat man do 11-12-2012 15:10

Re: a crazy idea for an anchor winch
 
oooohhh, an anchor porn thread :D

My bargains are the marginally oversized anchor,

https://img526.imageshack.us/img526/6590/p1000230f.jpg
https://img43.imageshack.us/img43/1507/winnerh.jpg

and the marginally oversized windlass, with extras.

https://img809.imageshack.us/img809/1...ndlasscopy.jpg

nimblemotors 14-12-2012 11:12

Re: a crazy idea for an anchor winch
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jared (Post 1104837)
I've been brainstorming over a manual version. Mainly, I'm concerned about my lady to be able to raise the anchor when needed (and it seems the need is always in the worst conditions) It would work similar to a boat trailer winch with a chain drum modified to fit it. Also, change the gear ratio to haul it up faster but still have a little more power that doing it by hand. I like the idea of it not being permanently mounted at the bow. Anyone see something like that so I don't have to reinvent it?

Did you figure it out? Here is the cheeep manual winch,

1000 Lb. Capacity Hand Winch

They go very very slow, so to make it faster you'd want to add another larger gear, and swap the handle over to it.
Seems like you might as well get a motor that can plug in where the handle goes too. And make the whole thing detach and stow so it won't rust away.

JackB

boden36 14-12-2012 15:35

Re: a crazy idea for an anchor winch
 
It is not that hard to make your own electric anchor winch. Weld up a casing with a flanged base and housings for a horizontal shaft. The case can be 3mm plate, the housings any suitable diameter pipe.
Make a reasonably thick flange around the open base of the casing, so it will bolt to the deck and can be sealed. Inside the casing place a cross shaft made from scrapyard stainless bar, with a large sprocket on it. All this is carried on two nylon bushes.

Cut two holes in the deck for the chain to pass through ( these will be hidden by the casing).

Underdeck, fabricate a mounting for a worm drive reduction that you can direct drive with a 12volt DC motor (I used an old starter motor). On the output side of the worm drive, mount a small sprocket to drive the chain from the top unit.

My ratios were 16:1 for the worm drive, and 4:1 for the sprockets. I bought a suitable gypsy secondhand and had a machine shop put the threads on the cross shaft. On the other end is a rope capstan that came off an old manual winch that had not survived. All the basic lathe work I did myself.

The starter motor is a Lucas as they do not have an extension bearing on the pinion.

Part of the casing is made in the shape of a bollard, and the flat top of the bollard houses a press switch for the winch.

The casing is hot dipped galvanized after fabrication.

I have found this setup to be robust, powerful and trouble free for over 20 years. The only limitation is that it is not hand operable if it breaks down, but it never has so far. We anchor with 200 ft of 3/8 chain and a 40lb Bruce.

Regards,

Richard.


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 19:19.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.


ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.