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-   -   Power Survivor 80E alternate membrane options? (https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f115/power-survivor-80e-alternate-membrane-options-188404.html)

LadyStardust 28-07-2017 09:17

Power Survivor 80E alternate membrane options?
 
Has anyone found a source of membranes for the 80E other than the official Katadyn ones. I'm assured they will exist, but until I remove my existing ones, I won't know if they have markings that help identify them, and I'm not able to do that right now.

Paul C, Baba/Tashiba 40, SE Asia

ErikFinn 28-07-2017 11:44

Re: Power Survivor 80E alternate membrane options?
 
Hi Paul,

hope you are doing well and enjoying the Baba. I don't know if you can find non Pur/Katadyn membranes anywhere at more affordable prices but another option would be to replace the pressure vessels and membranes with another model, something more common and affordable like CruiseROWater has been doing here (mid page, right side):

Custom Boat Watermaker by Cruise RO Water & Power

I came across the option a while ago after my jaw dropped when I saw the Katadyn membrane prices.

Rich from Cruise RO is a member here also and he has always been very helpful and should answer any emails promptly in case you want more info.

best regards,

Erik

Captain Bill 28-07-2017 12:11

Re: Power Survivor 80E alternate membrane options?
 
I found that despite Katadyn's contrary advice that the membrane for my 160E was a standard 2.5x21 inch membrane. What's more the fitting sizes were also standard. I can't speak with personal knowledge regarding the 80E, but considering that you need two $400+ membranes to repair it you might consider checking out the option of swapping out the membrane and pressure vessel for a standard one. If the pressure vessel end fittings are standard 1/4 NPT as they were on my 160e you can buy a 2.5x14 seawater membrane for $170 and a pressure vessel for $265, or about what you would pay for a single 80e membrane. The 2.5x14 membranes are rated at 150 GPD while your unit is rated at 80 per day. My 160 used a 300 gpd rated membrane to produce 160 gpd, or exactly the same proportion. Katadyn only gets about half of the rated output because they use a single piston pump and there is only pressure on the membrane half the time.

LadyStardust 30-07-2017 03:52

Re: Power Survivor 80E alternate membrane options?
 
Hi Erik, All is good here thanks, the boat is working well, and we just finished ten weeks around Tioman/Anambas and Kuching at anchor. In Miri Marina now.
I tried to remove the membranes from the housing today, but the caps at the end are seized on, so I might investigate replacing the whole thing, maybe even getting a different pump, as the old one needs work.

LadyStardust 30-07-2017 03:56

Re: Power Survivor 80E alternate membrane options?
 
Thanks Captain Bill, Your advice sounds good and after a bit of a google I can see it makes a lot of sense.
Will continue to investigate, while waiting for the WD40 to work away at the membrane housing. I have a couple of months to solve this in before we hit the oceans again.

ErikFinn 30-07-2017 04:29

Re: Power Survivor 80E alternate membrane options?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by LadyStardust (Post 2444674)
Hi Erik, All is good here thanks, the boat is working well, and we just finished ten weeks around Tioman/Anambas and Kuching at anchor. In Miri Marina now.
I tried to remove the membranes from the housing today, but the caps at the end are seized on, so I might investigate replacing the whole thing, maybe even getting a different pump, as the old one needs work.

Hi Paul, good to hear boat is working well. How did you like Tioman and Kuching? I have been to Miri and liked it a lot, people were so friendly.

Here is another thread about Pur/Katadyn, some good info there also.

https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ser-40828.html

Cheers,
Erik

sailalibi 10-01-2019 12:59

Re: Power Survivor 80E alternate membrane options?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Bill (Post 2443626)
I found that despite Katadyn's contrary advice that the membrane for my 160E was a standard 2.5x21 inch membrane. What's more the fitting sizes were also standard. I can't speak with personal knowledge regarding the 80E, but considering that you need two $400+ membranes to repair it you might consider checking out the option of swapping out the membrane and pressure vessel for a standard one. If the pressure vessel end fittings are standard 1/4 NPT as they were on my 160e you can buy a 2.5x14 seawater membrane for $170 and a pressure vessel for $265, or about what you would pay for a single 80e membrane. The 2.5x14 membranes are rated at 150 GPD while your unit is rated at 80 per day. My 160 used a 300 gpd rated membrane to produce 160 gpd, or exactly the same proportion. Katadyn only gets about half of the rated output because they use a single piston pump and there is only pressure on the membrane half the time.

So Capt Bill, you're saying a single 14x2.5 membrane will be a match for an 80e? My 80 makes water at 500 or so ppm with a single 21x2.5 membrane, not great but ok...

Captain Bill 10-01-2019 14:25

Re: Power Survivor 80E alternate membrane options?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sailalibi (Post 2799313)
So Capt Bill, you're saying a single 14x2.5 membrane will be a match for an 80e? My 80 makes water at 500 or so ppm with a single 21x2.5 membrane, not great but ok...

That's correct, my experience is that these membranes pass more salt at low pressure than at high pressure. I actually I think they probably pass the same amount of salt, but because they are not passing as much fresh water when the pressure is lower, then the output water is saltier. My 160 has never done much better than 300 ppm, which I attribute to the single piston pump. If one has more surface area the pressure will drop faster, also resulting in lower output water quality. A three piston pump keeps pressure much more constant on the membrane and makes higher quality water. I once connected a three piston pump to my 160e pressure vessel and got 100ppm water and 13 gph. I never have had that good of water using the katadyn pump. I think the 2.5 x 21 inch membrane probably has too much surface area for the 80e pump and a 2.5x14 would be a better match and would improve your water quality and maybe even give you a slight increase in output.

mikebnz 17-04-2019 01:05

Re: Power Survivor 80E alternate membrane options?
 
Hi Captain Bill,

I'm in NZ which means getting spare parts for anything is difficult, and membranes for an 80E is pretty much impossible. So I'm keen on taking your advice and changing my 80E membrane for a 2.5 x 14 or 2.5 x 21. I take your point on using the 14" one with the standard pump, but if I swap the pump out would the 21" work better?

When you changed your pump to a 3 piston model did you experience any problems, and would you recommend for or against that with an 80E?

Cheers
Mike

GordMay 17-04-2019 02:54

Re: Power Survivor 80E alternate membrane options?
 
Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, Mike.

STELLA31 17-04-2019 02:57

Re: Power Survivor 80E alternate membrane options?
 
Unfortunately katadyn only make these membranes. And the 80e has 2.
Do they need replacement?
Tech support at southern seas marine Australia are very knowledgeable Regarding katadyn.
Maybe a membrane cleaner will do the job.

mikebnz 17-04-2019 03:41

Re: Power Survivor 80E alternate membrane options?
 
Thanks Stella31, yes the first thing I'll try will be a membrane cleaner, great suggestion.

I'm thinking longer term though, at some stage they'll need to be replaced and the question was can I replace the whole pressure unit (not just the inner membrane) with a 3rd party one rather than stick with the Katadyn one.

I'll check out Southern Seas now, thanks for the suggestion.

Captain Bill 17-04-2019 05:13

Re: Power Survivor 80E alternate membrane options?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mikebnz (Post 2871804)
Hi Captain Bill,

I'm in NZ which means getting spare parts for anything is difficult, and membranes for an 80E is pretty much impossible. So I'm keen on taking your advice and changing my 80E membrane for a 2.5 x 14 or 2.5 x 21. I take your point on using the 14" one with the standard pump, but if I swap the pump out would the 21" work better?

When you changed your pump to a 3 piston model did you experience any problems, and would you recommend for or against that with an 80E?

Cheers
Mike

It is not simple to swap out the Katadyn pump for a three piston pump. The Katadyn pump combines the pump and pressure regulator. If you swap out the Katadyn pump you must also replace the pressure regulator. When I used my membrane and pressure vessel with the three piston pump I actually replaced a failed pressure vessel in another water maker with the Katadyn pressure vessel and membrane. The three piston pump system was a 110v ac powered pump. I am not aware of any small three piston pump that can be powered by DC. If you want to swap out the membrane and the pump you are essentially talking about building your own water maker. One advantage of the Katadyn pump is that it has an energy recovery feature that three piston pumps don't have which will mean that you will use more amp hrs per liter than with the Katadyn pump even if you can find a small three piston pump. So while it's a pretty simple matter to swap out the membrane and pressure vessel it's not so simple to replace the pump.

mikebnz 20-04-2019 17:55

Re: Power Survivor 80E alternate membrane options?
 
Thanks Captain Bill. I'll stick with just replacing the pressure capsule and membrane, that's exactly the advice I was after.
Cheers
Mike

YACHT TARENTELA 23-09-2019 04:26

Re: Power Survivor 80E alternate membrane options?
 
Hi All, not sure if this thread is still being watched but if it is... I am planning to reactivate my Powersurvivor 80E and believe at least one of my membranes is clogged. I tried cleaner and descaler a few years ago without any improvement in production. Originally I was getting 15 L/Hr and this dropped by 50% to 7.5 L/Hr. I pickled the system and have not used it for 5 or 6 years. Now I want to recommission it and have been investigating swapping out the membrane and housing with a generic 2.5 x 21 membrane. This was the first I heard about possibly using a 14" instead of 21". Any advice or direction will be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Al


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