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chuck1 04-04-2017 09:33

Amel, Hylas or Oyster
 
Hi All,
Wife and I have been re-searching, comparing, spreadsheeting many boats over the past year and have narrowed our choice down to these three (a few more made honorable mention). Budget is in the low $200s. All CC. Want safety, tankage, some sort of swim/gear step transom, genset, H2o maker, good size galley, crewed by 2, no teak you know the usual. Can get an Amel 1999-2003 or Oyster/Hylas 10 years older. Better selection of Oyster to choose from but most are in EU (pre-Brexit). Hylas comes second after Amel for features and I love layout of galley and passage to aft cabin (but rare in the $ range). Oyster is prettiest followed by Hylas then Amel but Amel ticks most boxes. Are my rose colored glasses broken, what am I missing. Any thoughts? Thanks for your time.

sainted 04-04-2017 09:53

Re: Amel, Hylas or Oyster
 
You've got good taste, though you might want to include Tayana in there. Also, don't forget the Stevens 47, the precursor (same hull) of the Hylas 47 and 49. Great sea boats (I have a Stevens 47). There are a few very well equipped S47s on the market now that tick most if not all of your boxes.

Have fun!

Scott

Typhoon 04-04-2017 09:55

Re: Amel, Hylas or Oyster
 
Have you ever been aboard an Amel?

You either love them or hate them.

Remember to save a big junk of cash to get the boat up to snuff whatever you decide on .

Regards John.

nesscapade 04-04-2017 09:57

Re: Amel, Hylas or Oyster
 
I went through a similar analysis and comparison in 2012. I also looked at Moody's. In the end we fell in love with Hylas. I don't you can go wrong with any of your choices so in the end we went for the one that we loved at most when we first saw her. Today we have a Hylas 54 2003 here in the Great Lakes and couldn't be happier. The Oysters were more expensive and we didn't need better. We liked the looks and build of the Hylas better than the Amel, but again they're all great yachts. Good Luck!

Ded reckoner 04-04-2017 11:03

Re: Amel, Hylas or Oyster
 
You haven't mentioned where you will be sailing. But, I would recommend you walk through a Nauticat 42 pilothouse sailboat before you buy anything else. Boats of this model are in or close to this price range now.

Dockhead 04-04-2017 11:15

Re: Amel, Hylas or Oyster
 
You've gotten a lot of good advice.

Number one is spend some time on all your potential boats in real life and get a feel for what you like and don't.

Amel is the odd one in that list -- as someone said, you either love 'em or hate 'em. If you are not turned off by their weirdness and aesthetics, that's the best value there is for a really fully equipped long distance cruising boat where every single thing has been thought through and taken care of. Closest thing in the world to a boat you could sail away from the works and immediately start a circumnav. As for me, I WAS turned off by their weirdness and aesthetics, so it didn't end up as a choice for me, but everyone in your position should have a look at them.

When I was doing what you are doing, I actually settled on Oysters as my first choice, as being the prettiest and most robust cruising boats, with a lot of great features like the superb salon arrangement.

I ended up not buying one (after one contract fell through) because they turned out to be very expensive compared to their condition, which was invariably horrible for 10+ year old boats. It seems to me that Oysters tend to be bought when new by a particular type of sailor, rich and possessing tons of free time, but lacking technical skills or feeling for technical things, and they tend to be used very hard without much maintenance, and sold on when things start to break. So when you figure in the cost of the total refit all the older ones would have needed, it just didn't make sense for me compared to other options.

Hylas are fantastic boats, and there are other makes which have been mentioned in this thread which are worth looking at. You should also look at other high end European boats -- Hallberg Rassy, Contest, Discovery, Moody (English ones, pre the Dehler takeover). Out of those Discovery the most expensive and most similar to Oysters; Moody probably best value but an orphan as the company no longer exists. HR and Contest are also excellent, beautiful boats.

I spent more than a year flying around looking at boats before I finally made my choice. Like choosing a wife, do this without hurrying, and enjoy the process.

P.S. -- I don't know what kind of cruising you're planning on doing, but note that different boats have somewhat different orientation. The Amel is a pure long distance blue water boat which you will not like as much for short distance weekend and summer vacation cruising. Likewise, pretty much all of the others will require re-equipping, for serious long distance work, if it hasn't already been done. They also lack deck storage, technical space, and other attributes which are really needed for crossing oceans. Of all these boats, only the Amel is really made from the ground up for ocean crossing.


And as someone else said -- be acutely aware of the cost of equipping and refitting an older boat after you buy it. Can be 10s or even 100's of thousands of dollars depending on condition and how you want the boat to look afterwards. It's not like buying a car!! I guess I've spent close to $100,000 on refitting/upgrading my own boat since I've owned her, although she was in almost like new condition when I bought her, with less than 800 hours on the engine.

Low 200's might be a tight budget even for an Amel, when you consider refit costs. I would think you would need closer to half a million; I have spent much more than that on my boat including the refit.

If the budget is inflexible, you might need to start looking at production boats like Jeanneau, which are a much better value and much more bang for the buck, than these high end boats, while still being very good sailboats.

TheOffice 04-04-2017 11:21

Re: Amel, Hylas or Oyster
 
We have a Hylas 44. No sugar scoop transom, but we love how she sails! Love the layout as well. Frers designs, so you can't go too far wrong. We don't have in-mast furling. The Selden units do need occasional service - something owners tend to overlook.

Moody46CC 04-04-2017 11:28

Re: Amel, Hylas or Oyster
 
Second what writers above have said and in particular Dockhead re Moodys. I have a Moody M46. You get a lot of boat for the value and the build quality will match the marques you have looked at. Your price range will force you to look at British model Moodys. Yes, Moodys are "orphans" in that the German (Hanse) Moodys are what are now made, but the equipment on the English ones is pretty much what you'll find on the Hylas or Oyster, so parts are really not an issue. Anyway, many of the readers on this list will envy your decision. Good luck.

D Rock 04-04-2017 11:37

Re: Amel, Hylas or Oyster
 
Yes, you have gotten a lot of good information! But, information is just that. Someone said to spend time on each. I think that a great idea, but couldn't imagine how to accomplish that. Someone else suggested to truely think through what you want. That is tough to do if you don't already know, but again a good idea.

You have a great short list of boats but, they are all quite different in my mind.

As someone else said, have fun with the looking...so true, the work begins after the ink dries on the check (first of many checks!)

I would add that you can get a boat on your list in your price range, maybe. Add the Stevens 47 or Tayana 47 to your list as options to take seriously. They may be more suited to the pricing you are shooting for. They also have an excellent following for resale value as do your first three choices.

My wife and I settled on a Tayana 48 several years ago and like some of the others did a refit to suit our needs based on the prior 9 years on an IP 40. She turned out perfect (for us).

She is currently for sale...classified section.

Best of luck on the hunt, we'll see you out here (currently Bahamas).

Dockhead 04-04-2017 11:53

Re: Amel, Hylas or Oyster
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Moody46CC (Post 2363884)
Second what writers above have said and in particular Dockhead re Moodys. I have a Moody M46. You get a lot of boat for the value and the build quality will match the marques you have looked at. Your price range will force you to look at British model Moodys. Yes, Moodys are "orphans" in that the German (Hanse) Moodys are what are now made, but the equipment on the English ones is pretty much what you'll find on the Hylas or Oyster, so parts are really not an issue. Anyway, many of the readers on this list will envy your decision. Good luck.

Yes, the English Moodys are nice boats. Obviously I thought so, since I bought one some 8 years ago. Moody was in direct competition with Oyster when the last generation of their larger boats was made, and they exceed Oyster standards in some respects (deck hardware, and generally sailing qualities are better), while on the other hand being not nearly as pretty. They are a good value for the money, but I don't think you can get a good one over 45' for low 200's, and certainly not including refit. A friend of mine recently bought an English Moody 47 (very nice boat), and paid about $350,000 for her. There are now some 54's like mine on the market for under $500,000, but they are now of an age which will require a lot of investment to get into good condition. To put refit costs into perspective, I spent more than $50,000 on sails year before last, and more than $10,000 on standing rigging the year before that.

To get below $300k all in, I think you had better be looking at Amels and maybe Tayanas, which are also very nice boats, but as always -- beware the refit costs! All boats are money pits -- that's one thing which does not vary at all between types and makes! :)

chuck1 04-04-2017 12:21

Re: Amel, Hylas or Oyster
 
Excellent feed back and what I am looking for. I could up the budget a bit for the right boat but that would tap the separate spruce-up budget for a couple of years. Is that too risky if the right boat came along or is there no such thing as an upgrade free boat (at least for a couple of years)?

chuck1 04-04-2017 12:27

Re: Amel, Hylas or Oyster
 
Some questions about cruising plans. Buy this spring or summer. Enjoy her a bit then on the hard somewhere till I finally cut the lines March '18. Then we fully move on board take it slow. Depends on where we buy as far as destination goes.

Dockhead 04-04-2017 12:41

Re: Amel, Hylas or Oyster
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by chuck1 (Post 2363930)
Excellent feed back and what I am looking for. I could up the budget a bit for the right boat but that would tap the separate spruce-up budget for a couple of years. Is that too risky if the right boat came along or is there no such thing as an upgrade free boat (at least for a couple of years)?

One thing which is an immutable truth of cruising, is that there is no such thing as an "upgrade free boat", not even a new one.

Better to buy a little smaller or a less prestigious marque, but in better condition and with a healthy percentage of the purchase price set aside for refitting. Again, Amel is a particularly economical choice because not only are they significantly cheaper than other high end boats, they come from the works with literally everything you could practically ever want on the boat for long distance cruising. Without going to a production boat like a Jeanneau, your best chance of being all-in for under $300k is going to be an Amel, I think.

Another immutable truth is that upgrades and refitting are practically not reflected in the value of a used boat. That means that project boats are almost always a bad deal for the buyer, and that a freshly refit boat with major systems replaced and everything done well (not just superficially, for a sale) is usually a good deal for the buyer, because he could never do the work himself for the same money as the cost difference to an average boat which needs some work.

Unlike with cars, I think you actually may come out ahead buying a new boat. I won't buy another used boat, I think. My total cost of ownership over the last 8 years is not less than it would have been had I bought new, and I would have saved a lot of time on repairs and upgrades. YMMV.

Chris777 05-04-2017 09:05

Re: Amel, Hylas or Oyster
 
Chuck1,

You are missing the best: Hallberg Rassy!!

Good luck with your search.

TheThunderbird 05-04-2017 10:00

Re: Amel, Hylas or Oyster
 
Refitting can Also be a pleasure,and a kind of a choice. In that case, given Some technical background and experience , and a lot of time, you may have your show-case .

On a 54' from 1989, it means 70% of purchase price (but I have my exotic boiserie, etc.)...

On the other side of spectrum, do consider a shorter newer boat, and "pretend" to change nothing for 2 years, before either reselling, or upgrading it.

In my case, I can't afford a fully automated 70'we :-), thus l approached my 54'cutter as my ultimate boat for solo sailing.

Oysters went thru ups&downs in the product line after various financial squeezes, so get detailed info about model year.
Also, many are chartered... and as DH suggests it is more on the flamboyant "look at me" side of the owners spectrum.

A swan65 (late70s ketch) TALINA is being refitted here in Sicily after circumnavigation. I definitely prefer it to 95% of current production boats. Can get info for anyone interested.

ALAIN97133 05-04-2017 10:23

Re: Amel, Hylas or Oyster
 
2 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by chuck1 (Post 2363765)
Hi All,
Wife and I have been re-searching, comparing, spreadsheeting many boats over the past year and have narrowed our choice down to these three (a few more made honorable mention). Budget is in the low $200s. All CC. Want safety, tankage, some sort of swim/gear step transom, genset, H2o maker, good size galley, crewed by 2, no teak you know the usual. Can get an Amel 1999-2003 or Oyster/Hylas 10 years older. Better selection of Oyster to choose from but most are in EU (pre-Brexit). Hylas comes second after Amel for features and I love layout of galley and passage to aft cabin (but rare in the $ range). Oyster is prettiest followed by Hylas then Amel but Amel ticks most boxes. Are my rose colored glasses broken, what am I missing. Any thoughts? Thanks for your time.

Although I'm French & Canadian :whistling: I'm not completely convinced by Amel mainly because of their cockpit & galley layout, not to speak of their ketch rig. One thing in their favor is that they are very well built but I'm convinced Oyster are also well built. Look at this 1988 Oyster galley layout, one can use it offshore https://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/62881 & you're left with $50K to get it offshore ready :)

Typhoon 05-04-2017 11:12

Re: Amel, Hylas or Oyster
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ALAIN97133 (Post 2364602)
Although I'm French & Canadian :whistling: I'm not completely convinced by Amel mainly because of their cockpit & galley layout, not to speak of their ketch rig. One thing in their favor is that they are very well built but I'm convinced Oyster are also well built. Look at this 1988 Oyster galley layout, one can use it offshore https://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/62881 & you're left with $50K to get it offshore ready :)


Teak deck on old boat , very very scary , be prepared for the work and money to make it right. Can't tell if it is glued or screwed but in the yachtworld listing you can see it failing in the cockpit . Stick with a boat with glass decks , pardon the pun.

Personally I love the key hole galleys, or what I call them , "dead end galleys" . Once you are in that space you can brace yourself in all directions and are not impeding anyone else's movements around the boat . I don't like walk through galleys on center cockpit boats , If you have guests on board they are almost in your cabin when they want a coffee in the morning and you want to sleep . Grrrr. On our boat we have the chart table and the washing machine in the walk through space to the master cabin . Creates a kind of buffer zone between the main cabin and the master . We find it affords better privacy .

Enjoy the search.

Regards John.

Terra Nova 05-04-2017 11:58

Re: Amel, Hylas or Oyster
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dockhead (Post 2363871)
You've gotten a lot of good advice.

Number one is spend some time on all your potential boats in real life and get a feel for what you like and don't.

Amel is the odd one in that list -- as someone said, you either love 'em or hate 'em. If you are not turned off by their weirdness and aesthetics, that's the best value there is for a really fully equipped long distance cruising boat where every single thing has been thought through and taken care of. Closest thing in the world to a boat you could sail away from the works and immediately start a circumnav. As for me, I WAS turned off by their weirdness and aesthetics, so it didn't end up as a choice for me, but everyone in your position should have a look at them.

When I was doing what you are doing, I actually settled on Oysters as my first choice, as being the prettiest and most robust cruising boats, with a lot of great features like the superb salon arrangement.

I ended up not buying one (after one contract fell through) because they turned out to be very expensive compared to their condition, which was invariably horrible for 10+ year old boats. It seems to me that Oysters tend to be bought when new by a particular type of sailor, rich and possessing tons of free time, but lacking technical skills or feeling for technical things, and they tend to be used very hard without much maintenance, and sold on when things start to break. So when you figure in the cost of the total refit all the older ones would have needed, it just didn't make sense for me compared to other options.

Hylas are fantastic boats, and there are other makes which have been mentioned in this thread which are worth looking at. You should also look at other high end European boats -- Hallberg Rassy, Contest, Discovery, Moody (English ones, pre the Dehler takeover). Out of those Discovery the most expensive and most similar to Oysters; Moody probably best value but an orphan as the company no longer exists. HR and Contest are also excellent, beautiful boats.

I spent more than a year flying around looking at boats before I finally made my choice. Like choosing a wife, do this without hurrying, and enjoy the process.

P.S. -- I don't know what kind of cruising you're planning on doing, but note that different boats have somewhat different orientation. The Amel is a pure long distance blue water boat which you will not like as much for short distance weekend and summer vacation cruising. Likewise, pretty much all of the others will require re-equipping, for serious long distance work, if it hasn't already been done. They also lack deck storage, technical space, and other attributes which are really needed for crossing oceans. Of all these boats, only the Amel is really made from the ground up for ocean crossing.


And as someone else said -- be acutely aware of the cost of equipping and refitting an older boat after you buy it. Can be 10s or even 100's of thousands of dollars depending on condition and how you want the boat to look afterwards. It's not like buying a car!! I guess I've spent close to $100,000 on refitting/upgrading my own boat since I've owned her, although she was in almost like new condition when I bought her, with less than 800 hours on the engine.

Low 200's might be a tight budget even for an Amel, when you consider refit costs. I would think you would need closer to half a million; I have spent much more than that on my boat including the refit.

If the budget is inflexible, you might need to start looking at production boats like Jeanneau, which are a much better value and much more bang for the buck, than these high end boats, while still being very good sailboats.

DH--excellent post...right up to the point where you recommended a Jeanneau.

OP--if you are liking Oyster and Hylas you will probably be extremely disappointed in a Jeanneau. If you like the way Amel is fitted out, maybe not.

chuck1 05-04-2017 13:58

Re: Amel, Hylas or Oyster
 
Thanks all. Passports, Outbounds were out of the $ range. HALLBERG-RASSYs are stout and pretty but my $ range would get me a 42'. ok size but prefer a bit bigger and no teak (unless a super value). Tayanas deserve a second look. Keep the advice coming! Sugar scoop is preferred for diving activities.

barnakiel 05-04-2017 14:11

Re: Amel, Hylas or Oyster
 
No teak?

Then likely not an Oyster. Nearly all the ones I have seen were teak clad. There may be some old ones without teak perhaps.

Oyster vs. Amel there is no winner as they are both great boatyards. Amel is often easier when the crew is few people. Amel also has the better cockpit in rough weather and when the weather is rainy and windy. But you can get an Oyster with twin wheels and center walk-thru - something not available in Amels. And few Amels are sloops, so this may too count should you insist on a sloop.

Hylas no idea but I know they are considered sort of like US HR or Contest equivalent - top shelf anyways.

b.

Eleuthera 2014 05-04-2017 15:46

Re: Amel, Hylas or Oyster
 
I chose an Amel 2 years ago after posing all the same questions. My boat is extremely safe and, during our Transat, we managed a nice 17.1 knot surf in a 55 knot squall.... knocked all the barnies off the bottom. :biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:

But you won't go wrong with any of your selections.

GL. Get a top rung survey.

CaptsWife 05-04-2017 15:53

Re: Amel, Hylas or Oyster
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Terra Nova (Post 2364646)
DH--excellent post...right up to the point where you recommended a Jeanneau.

Just curious, why don't you like a Jenneau?

sailcrazy 05-04-2017 16:37

Re: Amel, Hylas or Oyster
 
You also failed to mention the Taswell boats-both the 43 and the 49. I've been to the yards that made the Taswells, and the yard that makes the Hylas, and the yard that makes the Tayanas. We bought a Taswell, and have never been sorry-she's a great boat, very well made, and super safe (read that to mean...no short-cuts taken...solid and predictable!). My next, very very close choice was the Hylas. The Oyster is also a very well built boat, but from our experience (albeit dated) some more expensive unless you find the right deal. In my opinion, the Tayanas are a very good, solid boat, but the quality and workmanship does not come up to the Hylas and Taswell level. Less cost, but less boat, in my opinion. Do not rule out the Taswells in your search.

carlylelk 05-04-2017 16:45

Re: Amel, Hylas or Oyster
 
I am an Amel Owner. They are very well built, easy to maintain and easy to sail. Details like built in conduits for electrical to make adding gear easy (even in older models), lots of storage in a completely dry bilge thanks to all sink/shower/anchor locker drains led back to a dedicated sump. The engine room alone was enough to convince me but then throw in the protected helm station with electric sail controls at hand and you have a great boat.

I don't understand why people think this boat is not attractive. The other downside mentioned was the ketch rig, which I find a positive.

This boat also has a twin headsail downwind configuration (poles on both sides) that allows you to have the power of a spinnaker without all the hassle, and since both sails will simultaneously furl on the headstay you can carry it into the night and furl it with the electric motor by yourself when the wind pipes up.

It's a great boat and has a strong following, including a dedicated Owners Group on Yahoo that provides advice on repairs for the asking. It also has a strong resale history.

That's my two cents, enjoy the hunt for your boat!
Duane

s/v Jedi 05-04-2017 17:09

Re: Amel, Hylas or Oyster
 
To make a good recommendation we still need to know the intended purpose of the boat... or did I miss that?

If you plan to live aboard full time and cruise anywhere over the world in comfort then your list has only one viable option and that is the Amel Super Muramu. This is the only boat in the list that was designed for doing just that.

If you choose another one then you will be modifying it to make it more like the Amel. The cockpit and galley are great for cruising. It is very low maintenance, which will save you tens of thousands in the first 2 years compared to others... and more if the others have a teak deck.

I have none of these boats so I'm not promoting my own boat. Well, I would because it's better than even the Amel, but it's not in your list :thumb:

daletournier 05-04-2017 17:59

Re: Amel, Hylas or Oyster
 
Amels are boats and they wear out. Yes they were fitted out well from factory but that equip is 15-19 years'old now. I'll be cruising with two amels this year, great boats , one has had over 150k spent on it in the last 3 years refitting.
Realistically if you plan to spend in the low 200's your probably best to buy a boat around the 150-170k mark,, the refit will bring it up to the $ mark your looking at.
When I purchased my boat 4 months back it was immaculate, 830hr on the engine, I've spent 40k+ fitting her out!
Id rather buy an immaculate production boat and put new stuff on her than purchase at the bottom end of the market your looking at.
Just an opinion.

Sent from my vivo Y35 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

Terra Nova 05-04-2017 23:36

Re: Amel, Hylas or Oyster
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptsWife (Post 2364866)
Just curious, why don't you like a Jenneau?

In a word they are a far cry from an Oyster or Hylas.

Dockhead 05-04-2017 23:46

Re: Amel, Hylas or Oyster
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Terra Nova (Post 2365090)
In a word they are a far cry from an Oyster or Hylas.

That's true, but it doesn't mean they are bad! It's like saying a VW is a far cry from a Ferrari, which is also a true statement.


Jeanneaus are inexpensive, mass produced boats which certainly lack some qualities of expensive boats like Oysters. They are not as strong, not as well built, not as beautiful, etc., etc.

But they are good sailing boats (in many cases they sail better than Oysters, especially older Oysters) and are well designed for their purpose.

I mentioned Jeanneau specifically because I particularly like them compared to other mass produced boats. They were the last mass produced boats to go to hull liners, in the early 2000's I believe. So a Jeanneau from before then will be stick built like an Oyster. If you have budget constraints, it's very worth looking at these. Lot of bang for the buck.

Terra Nova 05-04-2017 23:58

Re: Amel, Hylas or Oyster
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dockhead (Post 2365096)
...Jeanneaus are inexpensive, mass produced boats which certainly lack some qualities of expensive boats like Oysters. They are not as strong, not as well built, not as beautiful, etc...

On this much we can agree. And you could have added many other boats to that list.

Based on the Jeanneau's I have inspected, and the one I helped deliver, I would recommend the OP simply avoid. Hylas is head and shoulders its superior.

daletournier 06-04-2017 00:17

Re: Amel, Hylas or Oyster
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Terra Nova (Post 2365103)
On this much we can agree. And you could have added many other boats to that list.

Based on the Jeanneau's I have inspected, and the one I helped deliver, I would recommend the OP simply avoid. Hylas is head and shoulders its superior.

Sorry but that's just silly. Are they Amels? of course not, will they do the job required? without a doubt. A very good friend of mine circumnavigated in his 1999 45.2 jeanneau. Good build, roomy and fast. He also run it hard on to a reef in the Philippines, the boat not only survived well but sailed several hundred nm's to Kota Kinabalo with part of its rudder missing.
I think your missing the point, no ones saying jeanneu is better, that dosent mean its not great value for money and will more than do the job.
I wonder if peoples biases come from their experience or they were there prior to experience thus shaping those future experiences?

Sent from my vivo Y35 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

Dockhead 06-04-2017 02:26

Re: Amel, Hylas or Oyster
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Terra Nova (Post 2365103)
On this much we can agree. And you could have added many other boats to that list.

Based on the Jeanneau's I have inspected, and the one I helped deliver, I would recommend the OP simply avoid. Hylas is head and shoulders its superior.

I agree -- Hylas is superior. But so is the price. And the OP only has a budget in the low 200's all in.

I liked all of the Jeanneaus I sailed. I also liked the Beneteaus I sailed (several charters). There is lots of choice in that market segment. Some of these boats are badly built, and some have had structural issues. Some of them are awfully thinly laid up in the bows. You have to shop around, research, inspect carefully, and make a reasonable decision. Every potential choice has different tradeoffs.

s/v Jedi 06-04-2017 11:45

Re: Amel, Hylas or Oyster
 
But all the Jeanneaus and Beneteaus are built for chartering with, if lucky, an owners version that isn't made for full time liveaboard cruising either.

It's up to the OP to decide the intended use for the boat. If it is weekends and holidays then I would surely suggest the French mass produced. I would pick the Amel otherwise. I find the argument that a 20yr old Amel needs systems replaced completely irrelevant. Because you would expect many systems to have been replaced already and even if they weren't, that factor is the same as for any other boat.

daletournier 06-04-2017 12:04

Re: Amel, Hylas or Oyster
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi (Post 2365527)
But all the Jeanneaus and Beneteaus are built for chartering with, if lucky, an owners version that isn't made for full time liveaboard cruising either.

It's up to the OP to decide the intended use for the boat. If it is weekends and holidays then I would surely suggest the French mass produced. I would pick the Amel otherwise. I find the argument that a 20yr old Amel needs systems replaced completely irrelevant. Because you would expect many systems to have been replaced already and even if they weren't, that factor is the same as for any other boat.

The replacing systems isnt irrelevant in this scenario if you only have 200k to spend. At 200k you are buying bottom of the barrel Amels that most likely need money spent, there goes the budget.

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s/v Jedi 06-04-2017 15:49

Re: Amel, Hylas or Oyster
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by daletournier (Post 2365538)
The replacing systems isnt irrelevant in this scenario if you only have 200k to spend. At 200k you are buying bottom of the barrel Amels that most likely need money spent, there goes the budget.

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Can you give some examples of what will fail? Even if it costs more, at least you can live aboard instead of camping. Look at tank capacities, size of galley, lack of outside teak, not too much space used for more berths. How about a washing machine, room for a decent genset, watermaker, dinghy, outboard and the list goes on and on. Living on a boat that also needs to actually move is wildly different when you move from a boat that was designed for chartering to a boat that was designed for full time live-aboard cruising.

I would opt for the Amel even if that cost me more in refurbishing. But with other options having teak decks etc. I don't even believe that will be the case: all will have those costs or they will not be suited for the job.

daletournier 06-04-2017 16:44

Re: Amel, Hylas or Oyster
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi (Post 2365726)
Can you give some examples of what will fail? Even if it costs more, at least you can live aboard instead of camping. Look at tank capacities, size of galley, lack of outside teak, not too much space used for more berths. How about a washing machine, room for a decent genset, watermaker, dinghy, outboard and the list goes on and on. Living on a boat that also needs to actually move is wildly different when you move from a boat that was designed for chartering to a boat that was designed for full time live-aboard cruising.

I would opt for the Amel even if that cost me more in refurbishing. But with other options having teak decks etc. I don't even believe that will be the case: all will have those costs or they will not be suited for the job.

What can fail after 20 years? The same stuff that fails on other boats! Stuff wears out. My friends are replacing parts on their genset right now. Another mate has replaced his engine, genset, rigging, sails, electronics etc etc.

And they actually aren't that big inside for their 53ft compared to comparable yachts, given the engine room ,which is great takes up alot of space.

Look I'm not going to get into a pointless argument about it ,Amels are VERY GOOD boats, if the Op has the money to buy a good one, well definitely, go for it. What im saying is if you have 220k to spend to buy a boat that you want to go seriously cruising with then be prepared for a reasonable % of that 220k to go into a refit, thus imho I would buy a very good condition production boat and you will have enough left to fit it out the way you want.
As I said I will be cruising with two across the Indian ocean this year, im very confident my Catalina 470 will get there in a similar time as them, while experienceing a similar level of comfort with similar problems.

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barnakiel 06-04-2017 16:52

Re: Amel, Hylas or Oyster
 
To start with, the teak will fail on a 20 years old boat. Also if she is an Oyster.

So one more pro to consider an Amel. Or an alternative where the teak was redone somewhere last 2-3 years.

Depending on your use, but should you want to take the boat offshore, plenty anything may need a replacement. Charter boats get rolled over (to naive buyers, at times) when they are about 5 years old. Think of it.

I would only buy a 20 years old boat if I had at least an amt equal to the purchase amt left for upgrades and repairs. That is to say if your boat budget is X, spend not more than 0.5X on initial purchase. Unless you are buying a new boat from the boatyard with reputable warranty service.

b.

Terra Nova 06-04-2017 17:42

Re: Amel, Hylas or Oyster
 
Most 20-year old boats of that size are ready for a refit. And you can go through $100k really fast.

robert sailor 07-04-2017 02:54

Re: Amel, Hylas or Oyster
 
I tend to agree with Dockhead that it's hard to beat an Amel if you plan on crossing oceans. They are a bit like an ugly girlfriend, they cook better, they keep the house better and they are better in bed.....you just don't like taking them to a dance.

chuck1 07-04-2017 08:45

Re: Amel, Hylas or Oyster
 
Hi All,
Thanks for the great replys and spirited debates. I would have responded sooner but I took the day off to move out of our 6k sqft house into an 800 sqft trailer. So we are still in shock/relief over that. If anyone wants any tips on that process let me know. One big thing I learned late in life and this move brought home is don't buy new unless your okay with giving it away or making pennies on the dollar when you sell. Never again!

Back to the boat. The reason most production boats were off the list is because the majority (of at least the French ones) had the master in the bow and two cabins port and starboard in the rear with the linear galley parallel to the salon. We didn't like that arrangement. Another is the shallow exposed cockpit and two wheels. We plan on living on her and traveling far and wide. That large exposed stern freaks me out (but I love the swim platforms). Most have spade rudders and our preference is a protected rudder of some sort. They are fun to sail and we have chartered many. Some seem to not age well either (that could be a result of chartering though).

If there is heavy built production CC with a protected rudder and a safe and sheltered cockpit that can generate it's own power and water w/ sufficient tankage and decent galley that two can sail easily please suggest. I would love options. Thanks for all your input.

Typhoon 07-04-2017 08:58

Re: Amel, Hylas or Oyster
 
If there is heavy built production CC with a protected rudder and a safe and sheltered cockpit that can generate it's own power and water w/ sufficient tankage and decent galley that two can sail easily please suggest. I would love options. Thanks for all your input.[/QUOTE]


Sure there is , but they are expensive and more then likely semi custom if you are looking at a new boat .

Or you could just get a Bristol 45.5 or even a 56.6 (remove teak deck) . Of course everyones boat is the best , but that being said , with love our Bristol and If we ever got footitis , it would be just a bigger Bristol . Built like tanks beautiful lines , sails great , protected rudder , shallow draft centerboarder, encapsulated keel . Great galleys , then put all your systems on it and off you go .

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCCC...4BzzTGJM3YJSTw

Regards John.


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