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messias 17-02-2016 07:30

Trailer-sailers costs Vs fixed moorings
 
Hello all,

Curious about this...
Without a doubt, trailer-sailers have a lot of advantages in terms of cruising ground options (if you´re willing -and capable- to tow it far away), but I am curious of all the costs involved in this, as opposed to having a fixed mooring somewhere (of course, I am aware that it also depends on the "somewhere").

I mean, trailer insurance/trailer maintenance (bearings, hubs, tyres, etc)/ tolls (for those of us who are unfortunate to live in countries where they charge you a kings ransom in tolls)/extended fuel costs/etc... wouldn´t it almost break even with a fixed mooring cost?

I only ask this "cost wise"...

Thanks for the enlightment...

NewMoon 17-02-2016 08:26

Re: Trailer-sailers costs Vs fixed moorings
 
I trailer a 26' power cruiser, not a sailboat, but do have experience on costs, over nearly 80,000 miles of towing this boat.

Boat/trailer weighs close to 12,000 pounds. Trailer is galvanized triple-axle with disc brakes. Truck is a Dodge Ram diesel pickup. Nearly every summer I take it from home in Utah to Prince Rupert BC where we launch, a round trip of about 3,800 miles. Some other shorter trips.

I do the trailer maintenance - brakes bearings etc. Takes 3-5 half days each year - it's pretty heavy gear. Brake/bearing parts cost about $100-$200/year. Tires (truck and trailer) $200-$300/year. Trailer insurance is trivial.

The boat stays in better condition, kept dry and clean on its trailer when not in use.

Most of my cost of trailering is the truck and its fuel. If you already have a capable tow vehicle, maybe you consider mainly the fuel.

Except for purchase of the truck and trailer, trailering costs are heavily dependent on how far you tow each year. For me, the maintenance costs are a small fraction of what it would cost to keep the boat in a slip. Truck fuel is significant, towing as many miles as I do.

a64pilot 17-02-2016 08:37

Re: Trailer-sailers costs Vs fixed moorings
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by NewMoon (Post 2048424)

The boat stays in better condition, kept dry and clean on its trailer when not in use.

This is what would drive me to trailering, and what made me stay with trailerable boats for years, my tow vehicle being a Chevy C3500 four door Dually. Unless of course your down at the boat several times a month and spend considerable time maintaining it.
Any boat that is of a size that it's practical for it to be kept out of the water, under a roof, will age much more slowly than one left in the water subject to the sun and weather.


Wanna buy a truck? I know where there is a good one for sale :biggrin:

The Garbone 17-02-2016 09:15

Re: Trailer-sailers costs Vs fixed moorings
 
I initially was going to get a smaller trailer sailor just for the cost issue. No monthly fee, I have a trailer tag so no additional registration of the trailer (boat is registered of course but that is $14 a year).

I had a decent tow vehicle for moving a 22 or 25 footer, then I took the wife to look at a 25, 22, 30, 36, 27 foot boats.

We decided on a 27 in a slip. We use it more not having the hassle of hauling. Have since upgraded to a 30 ft boat.

We rid ourselves of the truck that got 12mpg and cost $700 a year for insurance not including upkeep, tires, hoses, belts batteries. It was older but the $3500 we sold it for was nice.

Here in Florida we pay $8 a foot for a slip per month, $50 a month for a diver to keep her clean, $160 a year for liability insurance.

gjordan 17-02-2016 10:27

Re: Trailer-sailers costs Vs fixed moorings
 
Note that the OP is posting from Europe. Prices are very different, and almost no-one drives one ton dually trucks. I just bought a 22 foot trailer sailor, so that I could introduce the new love in my life to as much as possible to decide if we will purchase a boat that requires a slip, and commute time to the slip. We will launch in 4 or 5 weeks in the local lake, and if things go well, we will tow her up to the San Jauns for 2 or 3 weeks in August. In the fall we may tow, or sail her down to the Channel Islands, but the return trip will definetly be on the trailer. If you hope to do some adventuring, but not living aboard full time, then a trailer sailor makes (I think) very good economic sense and the freedom to go places that non-trailerable boats cant easily go. Much depends on what type of sailing you want to do. Are you happy sailing in the same area every time, or would you like to cruise (on a budget) to as many different places as you can in a small boat??? I cant begin to tell the financial difference in Europe, but here in California, it is much cheaper to keep the boat in the back yard for the winter, than paying for a slip. The other advantage is that when I get off of the computer I will walk to the back yard and re-bed another window, and sand some more of the neglected teak. Back to the original question, does the OP have space to store the boat and trailer for free over the winter, or would you be paying for some kind of storage either way?? After years of keel boats, I am looking forward to the trailer sailor adventure. ______Grant.

bensolomon 17-02-2016 10:30

Re: Trailer-sailers costs Vs fixed moorings
 
I own a 15ft Chrysler Mutineer and a 37.5 Hunter legend. I love them both, but......
I use the Hunter much more because she is ready to go and takes the whole family for weeks at a time. I have trailered my 15footer all over and could even put my family on board. But the bigger boat gives us more actual sailing and time together.

Check out this video of the mutineer:
https://youtu.be/JXlZVvzo304

And check out this video of the Hunter:
https://youtu.be/I5MPtzrWAXk

There are more videos on my site, but you will get the very different capabilities of the two different boat types u are looking at.

Ben

Sent from my XT1254 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

nautical62 17-02-2016 10:48

Re: Trailer-sailers costs Vs fixed moorings
 
I think it depends on where you want to sail and how much boat you need. In my opinion there is a big difference between a light weight trailer sailor like a Catalina 22 or water ballest boat used to sail lakes and protected bays and trailerable heavier weight keelboat for coastal, Bahamas, etc.

I have owned two trailerable sailboats that I've taken to the Bahamas, a Westerly Centaur and Telstar Trimaran, and my conclusion is that it's the worst of both worlds, not the best. For me, there was nothing fun or easy about towing 10,000 lbs. 1,200 miles each way to go cruising. Buying a tow vehicle was a notable expense. Then of course you have to add the cost and maintenance of a heavy duty trailer. Insurance covering the Bahamas cost the same whether I kept the boat on the trailer or not. The Westerly was certainly capable, but fairly small for extended cruising. The Telstar was notably lighter, also small and had way too much under deck slamming for upwind sailing in any notable seas.

I did like being able to do major work in the convince of my back yard. That was the one really big benefit.

Overall, I think I got a better value out of the two non-trailerable cruising boats I've owned since.

Now, I think a lighter powerboat or lighter trailer sailor you can easily tow to different locations for short trips may be a whole different story.....

a64pilot 17-02-2016 11:32

Re: Trailer-sailers costs Vs fixed moorings
 
I can tell you in my case, the tow vehicle cost more than anything it ever pulled, you can put serious cash in a large enough truck so that you can safely tow >10,000 lbs.

I started out looking for a trailer sailor as I had no idea if this sailing thing was for me or not, but as the Gulf is 150 miles away from me that meant not only pulling it down there and back every weekend, but having to stay in motels overnight, motel costs and fuel towing the boat back and forth every weekend seems they would quickly overcome slip rent.
So I decided to look for a boat that stayed in the water, seeing as how in my case a 50' slip cost the same if it had a rowboat or a 40' boat in it, I ended up with a 38' boat.
Long stretch from a trailer sailor I know, but by the time you figured in stepping and un-stepping the mast, trailering and launch and retrieve etc., that ate into sailing time.

tbodine88 17-02-2016 11:41

Re: Trailer-sailers costs Vs fixed moorings
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by messias (Post 2048374)
Hello all,

I only ask this "cost wise"...

Thanks for the enlightment...

Cruising is one thing, storage is another. Four years ago I thought I was going to lose my job. So I pulled the boat out of the marina and parked her in my back yard. I still go sailing when its warm, but in the winter and when I'm not sailing, she sits back there and costs me nothing.

BTW, I've lost the job four times since then, so when unemployed that marina payment doesn't haunt me.

For "cruising" this year I spent about $200 gas, $450 for trailer bearings and new bunks

gjordan 17-02-2016 18:42

Re: Trailer-sailers costs Vs fixed moorings
 
I think the location of the OP is very critical to his original question. I think that most vehicles in the Czech Republic, or Portugal are much smaller than what we Americans drive, so the heavy end of the trailer sailor boats would probably not be a consideration. I bought a 22 foot Catalina so that I could tow it behind a small or medium family sedan. Gas mileage is a real important thing for hauling long distances. My older 4 by 4, 3/4 ton pickup would pull much more, but at 8 miles per gallon, I try not to drive it much. We dont yet know if the OP plans to leave the boat in the water for the summer season, or launch and retrieve every weekend. Both are legitimate ways to use a trailer sailor. The difference in work and cost is something any owner must figure out (or guess at) for themselves. Just another 2 cents worth. _____Grant.

messias 18-02-2016 06:21

Re: Trailer-sailers costs Vs fixed moorings
 
First of all, thank you very much for all your answers here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gjordan (Post 2049004)
I think the location of the OP is very critical to his original question. I think that most vehicles in the Czech Republic, or Portugal are much smaller than what we Americans drive

That is a fact... (I drive an old renault :) ) and the other big payer in the game is the (lack of) backyard. :facepalm:
Unfortunately, most of us europeans with a regular job and average income, can only afford to live in appartment buildings... houses and backyards are far in our imagination (as far as good pension, but that´s another story). Garage for the car is usually an extra expense and etc, etc, etc... you get the picture :whistling:

All of that (and the fact that a big road trailer insurance is NOT cheap at all over here as well, plus the annual mandatory survey on it AND the car), made me bring up this thread, to see if I was making my calculation wrong

...guess I´m not:banghead:

For a trailer-sailer (and really make use of it as such) I would have to change the car, pay for winter storage, added insurances costs for both trailer and a bigger car = more expenses, extra expenses on tolls and increased fuel costs.

Oh well... still boatless.

John_Trusty 18-02-2016 06:39

Re: Trailer-sailers costs Vs fixed moorings
 
I'm about to trade a trailer sailing 22 foot for something bigger, so here's my calculation (if you can afford both). The value of sailing should be based on entertainment time per money expended -- just like paying for a movie. I have tried trailering to lakes, storing with mast up and just trailering to a ramp "dry sailing", and leaving her in a rented dock -- all with advantages and associated cost.

I found that trailering and stepping the mast (about 30 min in each direction) was not worth it -- an hour of hard work for a couple hours of sailing on a different lake. Dry sailing was better, but still moving gear to the boat, climbing up on the trailer, and launching took an additional 20 min to start and 15 min to finish sailing. As BenSolomon noted, sailing from the slip is marvelous and we more than doubled the use from the boat as a result. Slip rental and club membership doubled our boat storage costs, but with short summers we need to take advantage of every warm day to sail. Hence the reason for switching up to a larger boat and enjoying more time.

a64pilot 18-02-2016 07:21

Re: Trailer-sailers costs Vs fixed moorings
 
By chance is a "Yacht club" with a launch ramp and a lot where you can leave the boat an option?

messias 18-02-2016 07:29

Re: Trailer-sailers costs Vs fixed moorings
 
Yes, that will probably be the most wise option I have... once I have a boat back! :biggrin:

Dave22q 18-02-2016 08:27

Re: Trailer-sailers costs Vs fixed moorings
 
If you compare apples to apples it's an easy call. Unless your residence is far from your cruising grounds and you drive it frequently, the trailer is less expensive. Extra gas/wear on your car is nothing compared to reduced maintenance and insurance costs and the risk of theft from an unattended boat is cut to zero.

scareygary 18-02-2016 08:40

Re: Trailer-sailers costs Vs fixed moorings
 
This is of no help to my European friends, but thought I'd share an opinion. I just sold my venerable Yankee 30 for which I had a triple axle trailer. I used the trailer infrequently, but it was very useful at times for getting my boat home from locations on the ocean when the weather went to snot even though trailering behind my 3/4 ton diesel was sometimes white knuckled. Good brakes are KEY. I also used it to drag the boat home to do my own bottom work, painting, and maintenance, which saved big coin from the boatyard, even though I had to pay to have the keel stepped mast lowered, and paid to sling the boat on the trailer. One advantage was that I RENTED the trailer pretty often, which kept it maintained, and upgraded, plus gave me a little coin. I've aged beyond ocean racing, so have downsized to an Albin 7.9 meter, fin keeled sailboat with trailer which cost about as much as the triple axle trailer sold for!. Much less stress to trailer a much lighter boat on a double axle trailer, to get to great cruising areas infrequently, but I leave the boat at a moorage on the Columbia River and use it at least once a week for casual racing all winter and much more in summer. The trailer is VERY handy for me, but not used much, so I offer it for rent on occasion. Works for me, but every person and situation is so unique and personal....

SVrider44224 18-02-2016 09:14

Re: Trailer-sailers costs Vs fixed moorings
 
In my particular circumstance, the $450 a season I pay for a slip is a no-brainer.
Trailered it for a few years, but then figured it wasn't worth the hassle of 3 hours per outing for launching, stepping...telescoping the trailer and blah, blah...now it's twice a year, once to drop it off, once to bring it home.

ptrailsail 18-02-2016 10:28

Re: Trailer-sailers costs Vs fixed moorings
 
Hi,
Well, I'm making those same calculations, but I have an enphasis on my understanding of how much more fun it will be to trail to and sail in different places.
I live in Lisbon, and mooring here can be VERY expensive, around 151€ per month = (185 in high season*6 +116 in low season *6)/12.
Total 1812 per year, just for the slip.
I'd have to hire a slip out of Lisbon, either in VF Xira to the North or Seixal to the South and then I could only sail around there.
So my current plan (though I'm still boatless) is to buy a trailer sailer and keep it out of the water (depending on size could stay in my garage) and trail it wherever I want on a long weekend or for vacation, though for vacation I'll probably keep it in the water for those (few...) days.
As for costs I have identified:
. 32€ per month to keep the boat out of the water if I can't keep it in the garage (average/mix of sail club and on water when on vacation)
. 84€ per year for insurance of the boat
. 44€ per year added insurance of the trailer
. 9€ per year for lighthouse tax
Total of 515€ per year or 43 per month
The added gas I'll use to trailer it, will be part of the weekend overall cost, and some nights I'll even (hopefully) save on hotel room, sleeping on the boat ;)
Of course all these values are to be taken with a grain of salt, they are simulations and suppositions of what use I'll make of the boat I still don't have...
BUT, I still think it's a better option for me, I can't justify even for myself, to have the boat in a slip
My 2 cents

Cheechako 18-02-2016 10:36

Re: Trailer-sailers costs Vs fixed moorings
 
A trailer sailor can save you a lot in moorage. But if you don't already have a tow vehicle , no it doesn't. Also, it's a PITA to set up a trailer boat, so moorage in the good weather months is nice... and allows you to go sailing without a major expedition.

phydeaux 18-02-2016 14:18

Re: Trailer-sailers costs Vs fixed moorings
 
Like many of us, I sailed, and my wife didn't. So we started out with a MacGregor 25 (the old one), as the family boat, sailing locally in Socal (Catalina, etc.), and the boat lived on the trailer in a yard. We trailered to lakes and rivers - boat had a centerboard. Costs and maintenance were minimal, but we wanted more - room, comfort, performance. I was happy with the J24 for racing, and 30-foot family boat lived in a slip. Between the slip costs, the bottom guy and basic maintenance, the in-the-water boat cost more than five-times what the trailered cruiser cost.

Over time, the racing boat has gotten bigger and faster, as has the family boat. After about 30 feet, trailering gets interesting, and after 45 feet, in the water costs change.

So, the decision rests on what kind of sailing you're going to do, and where. Overnight, or weeks. Once a month or twice a week. How often are you sleeping and eating on the boat, and how many crew. If you're truly addicted, then in the water makes sense, and you'll live with the costs. If not, then a trailer is probaby a better plan.

messias 18-02-2016 15:19

Re: Trailer-sailers costs Vs fixed moorings
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ptrailsail (Post 2049521)
32€ per month to keep the boat out of the water if I can't keep it in the garage (average/mix of sail club and on water when on vacation)
. 84€ per year for insurance of the boat
. 44€ per year added insurance of the trailer
. 9€ per year for lighthouse tax

Hi there (greetings countryman :) )
From my experience, you're underestimating the trailer insurance cost by far. 5 years ago I was paying 75€ for mine... but that boat was a 5mt RIB, single axle. Keeping it in the garage was not an option, since the boat + outboard + trailer was almost 7mt long.
9€ lighthouse tax? Already? Wow... used to be 5€ :-)
I'm currently in Prague, but going to Lisbon in April... we should get together and have some boatless talk :-) :-) :-)

messias 18-02-2016 15:22

Re: Trailer-sailers costs Vs fixed moorings
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheechako (Post 2049530)
A trailer sailor can save you a lot in moorage. But if you don't already have a tow vehicle , no it doesn't.

Yep... and unfortunately I don't. My european Renault would spit it's clutch on the first hill.

Nicholson58 18-02-2016 19:52

Re: Trailer-sailers costs Vs fixed moorings
 
Definitely depends on your boat & cruising grounds. I don't know about the Czech Republic but here, the grounds are the Great Lakes. This is a life-times worth of quality cruising on fresh water. Trailering is a great way to skip a week's transit time to start where you want to be. I have trailered all over the Great Lakes with various small boats for 50 years and have never had to service bearings or trailers. I keep the hubs out of the water at the launch. Most of my trailer wheels die of old age before they need replacing. I am sure this is not the case for hauling larger & heavier boats. One thing I have always done is to make sure the trailer tires/wheels are full-size vehicle equipment - not the usual tiny undersized stuff usually sold. Always carry a spare and a jack and you will never need it. My guess is the greatest expense is the hauling vehicle. Possibly, this can be rented more economically than owning. If my cruising grounds were far away, I would want the boat near where I live or look for a way to dry store and launch on demand. Many places here will have your boat at the ready for you with a couple hours notice and pull it to storage when you are done. They make sure the battery is topped and everything is in order.

canyonbat 18-02-2016 21:01

Re: Trailer-sailers costs Vs fixed moorings
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by John_Trusty (Post 2049303)
I found that trailering and stepping the mast (about 30 min in each direction) was not worth it -- an hour of hard work for a couple hours of sailing on a different lake.

We have a 25 ft boat that we trailer all over the west. But, the set-up time is 2 to 3 hours each way! This eliminates any thought of day sailing her and we rarely go to the trouble for less than a week of sailing at a time. In the winter she lives in a slip here in AZ. If the weather is nice we sail. If we lived closer to the ocean we would have a boat in a slip. No question.

GILow 18-02-2016 21:17

Re: Trailer-sailers costs Vs fixed moorings
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by a64pilot (Post 2049335)
By chance is a "Yacht club" with a launch ramp and a lot where you can leave the boat an option?


This is the way we went with our 20 foot trailer sailor. Stored with mast on and ready to go at the club. Ten minutes to launch, and the club even provided a tractor so you didn't need to risk taking your car for a swim. Then on the odd occasion we'd drop the mast and take the boat somewhere special. Storage cost was less than one quarter of a keel boat in the same club.


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum

SailFastTri 18-02-2016 21:27

Re: Trailer-sailers costs Vs fixed moorings
 
I used to own a 15-foot "trailer sailer" and even though I was in good shape (in my 20's) it was a lot of work to put up the rig for launch and take it down for trailering. Climbing up, down, up, down, can get tiring especially if the weather is hot and humid.


When I sold that boat I was convinced I'd never get another sailboat unless I could leave it in the water for day/weekend use. A power boat is easy, just push it in and haul it out. I'm in my 60's now and 40+ years later I've owned sailboats up to 12 meters (and dinghies/skiffs) but always used a mooring for the sailboats.

alansmith 19-02-2016 00:13

Re: Trailer-sailers costs Vs fixed moorings
 
Messias, I had to giggle when I read your phrase, "my Renault would spit it's clutch on the first hill." I will remember that for a long time. Smile.


I like trailerable boats for one main reason. I can cruise wherever I want to. I am not dedicated to just the range that I can sail in a week or two. I can sail Bahamas, San Juans, Sea of Cortez, Channel Islands, Great Lakes....you can do the same also if you have the truck. But I think that is where you will face your biggest challenge is the big truck. I also liked your statement of getting the two boatless guys together to talk about your boat less condition. You've a great sense of humor...

messias 19-02-2016 01:26

Re: Trailer-sailers costs Vs fixed moorings
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by alansmith (Post 2050117)
You've a great sense of humor...

:biggrin: Thanks.

Hey... does a boatless guy with an average income, 8am to 5pm job (well...more 7 to 7) kids in school and currently living in a land-locked country has any other option? You´ve got to be able to laugh about it! :biggrin:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nicholson58 (Post 2049991)
Definitely depends on your boat & cruising grounds. I don't know about the Czech Republic (...)

Well, as a land-locked country with a harsh winter, the closest cruising grounds are the Baltic (500km North); The North Sea (650Km North-West); The Adriatic (750km South) or the British Channel at more than 1000km West. Here in Czech Republic the biggest lake is 200km away from where I live and with 46,5 km² and not much wide, could hardly be called "cruising ground"... but for the weekend, from April to October if just fine of course.
I mentioned the "harsh winter" because that big lake usually freezes during the winter time.

messias 19-02-2016 05:16

Re: Trailer-sailers costs Vs fixed moorings
 
Hummm...

Did some deeper investigation on those costs in Czech Republic and surrounding countries and came up with these (best) figures for my current situation:

SLIP IN A YACHTCLUB:
-Yearly berth in Poland (Baltic Sea) with 6 months in the water and 6 months on the hard, will be between 500€ ~ 600€ (already converted from Polish Zloty)
-Round trip -roughly 500km each way- from Prague in my car will eat up to 100€ in fuel (no added costs in tolls, since it´s a yearly fee and I already pay for it (through German highways)
-Launch and Recover of the boat while on the hard (stepping and unstepping mast included) will be between 12€ ~ 20€

So... 600€ for the berth, plus:
going sailing in summer season; 100€
going sailing in the winter season: 120€
Forecast number of sailing days: No idea, but since it´s not that far, probably any longer weekend is doable and for sure an extended cruise during vacations as well.

TRAILER SAILER IN CZ:
-Rent for a suitable (private, covered and big enough) "parking" averages 70€/month.
-Yachtclub storage here is about 350€ ~ 450€ year (stepping masts included)
-New car... out-of-the-question€
-Etc..

Pretty no-brainer https://www.cruisersforum.com/images/.../whistling.gif

My only real option, (if I want to do some more serious sailing, of course) is storing the boat abroad and take the "small" 5h drive up north.

So be it!
This actually opens up more possibilities in terms of boat design, since I will not need to stick to a trailerable version.

Siberianhusky 19-02-2016 05:32

Re: Trailer-sailers costs Vs fixed moorings
 
I was a trailer sailer for years. Own a docked keel boat now. I'd say in terms of miles per dollar sailed value my docked boat wins hands down.
So easy to go out for a couple hours after work mid summer when it is dusk at 9pm.
Start the motor, take off the sail covers, undo the docklines - sailing in 5 minutes.
I don't need a big boat, mine's a 25 footer, but the difference below deck between a 21' and 25' is huge! Standing headroom (for average people) and a head with a door, built in icebox, proper stove.
The difference between the 17' and 21' wasn't really that much, both were "tight" down below, much better pop top on the 21' though.
All in I'd say with some rough mental math ballpark 500$ more all in a year. BUT I sail 3-4 times a week now vs 1-2.

HappyMdRSailor 19-02-2016 06:00

Re: Trailer-sailers costs Vs fixed moorings
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by a64pilot (Post 2048437)
This is what would drive me to trailering, and what made me stay with trailerable boats for years, my tow vehicle being a Chevy C3500 four door Dually. Unless of course your down at the boat several times a month and spend considerable time maintaining it.
Any boat that is of a size that it's practical for it to be kept out of the water, under a roof, will age much more slowly than one left in the water subject to the sun and weather.


Wanna buy a truck? I know where there is a good one for sale :biggrin:


Hmm....
Would you consider a trade??? for a boat... or a boat... or a boat... :whistling:

ptrailsail 19-02-2016 08:23

Re: Trailer-sailers costs Vs fixed moorings
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by messias (Post 2049784)
I'm currently in Prague, but going to Lisbon in April... we should get together and have some boatless talk :-) :-) :-)

:smile: Well, I'm hoping I'll have a boat by then and we don't mingle with the boatless :biggrin:

Quote:

Originally Posted by messias (Post 2049784)
... you're underestimating the trailer insurance cost by far. 5 years ago I was paying 75€ for mine...

It's possible, I did a simulation online, but I am prepared for some surprises/variations in that front...

For someone without a suitable car, I guess the trailerable option gets expensive fast... I'm hoping mine will do for the 400-600kgs boats I'm looking at...

messias 19-02-2016 08:57

Re: Trailer-sailers costs Vs fixed moorings
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ptrailsail (Post 2050355)
:smile: Well, I'm hoping I'll have a boat by then and we don't mingle with the boatless :biggrin:

I was counting on that... but no worries... i can build mine on the spot!
Bigger AND lighter than yours! :popcorn:
https://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lbkovnNP4v1qaj9xh.jpg

Stu Jackson 19-02-2016 09:43

Re: Trailer-sailers costs Vs fixed moorings
 
This is a very good summary.

We experienced the reality of BOTH with the SAME trailerable boat, a Catalina 22 from 1983 to 1987. During the winters we dry sailed it from a local SF Bay marina less than a half an hour from our house, and were able to keep the mast up and pull it around to a launching ramp only a block away. During the summers, we trailered it up to a huge lake in Northern California and left it in the water all summer long.

Even factoring in the 2 1/2 hour driver up and back on weekends, it was far more fun to use the boat WHEN IT WAS ALREADY IN THE WATER.

On & off the trailer gets really old, really quickly, no matter who good and efficient you are with setups.

Given the OPs issues with hauling vehicles where he lives, it is very hard to make a case for cost benefits. I don't think any of us is in this hobby to count pennies or dollars or Euros. :)

The issue is basically how you intend to use the boat, first and foremost, since based on the original question, all the OP can do is absorb our experiences and make his own decisions.

If he is going to use the boat with the specific goal of trailering to and from DIFFERENT sailing venues, then it makes sense, regardless of the cost, all other things being equal. If that's NOT the case, then in the water wins, hands down, every time.

Since we sold the Catalina 22 in 1987, we've had a Catalina 25, full keel in the water, and our current boat bought in 1998, also in the water.

Good luck.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Siberianhusky (Post 2050223)
I was a trailer sailer for years. Own a docked keel boat now. I'd say in terms of miles per dollar sailed value my docked boat wins hands down.
So easy to go out for a couple hours after work mid summer when it is dusk at 9pm.
Start the motor, take off the sail covers, undo the docklines - sailing in 5 minutes.
I don't need a big boat, mine's a 25 footer, but the difference below deck between a 21' and 25' is huge! Standing headroom (for average people) and a head with a door, built in icebox, proper stove.
The difference between the 17' and 21' wasn't really that much, both were "tight" down below, much better pop top on the 21' though.
All in I'd say with some rough mental math ballpark 500$ more all in a year. BUT I sail 3-4 times a week now vs 1-2.


sesmith 19-02-2016 19:24

Re: Trailer-sailers costs Vs fixed moorings
 
Stu pretty much summed it up.

Our boat is trailerable, but not really a "trailer sailor", at least the way we use it. We keep it slipped during the summer on our local lake. If we didn't, it wouldn't get used. As it is, we use it a lot. We do pull it and trailer it elsewhere for vacations (usually somewhere on the Great Lakes). There are still a lot of places we want to visit, so it's the perfect boat for now.

The plus's are no storage fees in the winter, no lift fees,etc.. The boat is now in my back yard, so easy to work on. The negatives involve maintaining a truck. It was easy to justify a truck when we used it for other things like wood hauling and horse hauling. These days, it's just a boat truck, so much harder to justify replacing it when needed. Also, our Seaward 25 is a nice sized trailerable cruiser, but it's also a cramped cruiser. If it weren't for the trailerable aspect, we would have a 32-35 foot boat rather than the 25. That is likely to happen once we retire (though we may still keep the 25 for trailering).

Siberianhusky 20-02-2016 03:55

Re: Trailer-sailers costs Vs fixed moorings
 
" I don't think any of us is in this hobby to count pennies or dollars or Euros. :)"
Thats strange! I count every cent, sail the boat I do because of economics.
Then again I'm going cruising in a new boat in a couple years with 7 figures in the cruising kitty. Currently semi retired at 47, work because I want to and am completely debt free.
I must be the odd one out who counts EVERY penny.

allatsea99 20-02-2016 16:05

Re: Trailer-sailers costs Vs fixed moorings
 
Hi from Aus., no, no no... its a sailer-trailer, my personal experience is you spend more time as a truckie than you do as a sailer- We're 3 hrs from the coast We had a trailer sailer -nearly 3 tonnes incl. trailer... vehicles are no worry, common rail diesels will take it in their stride. Our experience is the preparation involved in going away was hugely stressful - took days off our holiday to recover & the risks of road & launch were just too high.. the road regulators here in NSW continue to raise the standards for trailerables. Trailer parts just don't cut the safety standards - we had one wheel come off and bounce into oncoming traffic... manufacturer's fault but failed to investigate... their engineers lost the technical report! We now have a keel boat 4 hrs away on a mooring, its cheap, a beautiful spot and we can just board & go.
I think this is a question you can only answer from experience & my advice would be to look carefully at the non-financial costs... perhaps if you have a bent for psychology, take a trip to a boat ramp and watch a few launches.

ramblinrod 20-02-2016 21:41

Re: Trailer-sailers costs Vs fixed moorings
 
Depends on your trailering vs mooring plans.

If you have the body of water you plan to sail, just a few miles away, you can use an old beater truck to tow it, and an economical car for all other personal use.

If you plan on trailering distance, want a newer, more reliable truck, and plan to use it as your regular, the costs go way up.

We have sailed for 20 years, 12 of those trailer sailing, road trips up to 3000 miles there and back.

Here are some figures. There are an infinite number of variations that may impact costs. These are based on our experience. YMMV.

$3000/yr slip/storage agreement. They can get by with an older economical car (say $5K), having an annual depreciation of $1000/yr. Maintenance + fuel costs (15,000 miles / yr) around $1000 + $1500 fuel. No loan and no collision coverage means $500/yr car insurance.

Total Annual Cost Boat + Vehicle = $7000

If one has a trailer boat, and plan to tow it distance, lets say the truck is $20K. Over 5 years it will have an annual depreciation of about $2000.
With $5000 down and $15000 financed, the total cost of borrowing will be about $2500 or $500 / yr. Insurance with collision will be about $1800/yr.
Maintenance and fuel costs for the same distance travelled, will be about $2000 + $3750.

Total Annual Cost Boat + Vehicle = $10,500.

In general, boats in slips get used more, than boats on trailers.

There are all kinds of options and variations including dry sailing a trailerable, paying for tractor launch each use, so an old beater car can be used.

Nobody can say which is better. It depends on what you want. If it were just me, I would still be trailer sailing fairly long distances. However, the admirable has decided she's done trailering. Since it is a whole lot more fun to share adventure, we keep a slipped boat now.

messias 22-02-2016 01:52

Re: Trailer-sailers costs Vs fixed moorings
 
Thank you all for your answers on this one. They were, without a doubt, much helpful.
I think I have a final answer for myself here, and that is... a slip.

I love the idea of being able to trail a boat anywhere, but facing (my) reality and facing the numbers I was able to get from yacht clubs abroad and storage facilities here, plus all the things I would have to buy and added costs, I just cannot afford a trailer-sailer.
A boat on a slip/storage agreement on some yacht club up North will be the most convenient/cost effective solution for me, since the price for a truck and storage facilities where I live, will allow me for a LONG time of driving there with my current car, just meet the boat and go.

Thanks again for your valuable input as it really made a difference on the decision.

Have a great day all of you!

hsi88 03-03-2016 02:11

Re: Trailer-sailers costs Vs fixed moorings
 
I own a Mac 26X and when it comes time to move the boat any distance, I simply rent a pickup truck to do so. No ongoing costs or maintenance or insurance to worry about. Wear and tear is on someone else's vehicle. Not practical if you need to move the boat all the time, but my long distance sailing only comes once every two years or so. For just moving the boat around, my car does just fine. Trailer maintenance is very low now that I've replaced the components with more seaworthy stainless hardware.


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